Not a smooth video while turning.

Brice LeCarre · Feb 21, 2017

toegema said:
Regarding moiree, I made a post about how to remove it (for broadcast use):

How to remove moiree from DJI cameras for broadcast use.

Hi all. I am a professional video editor for TV 2 in Norway.
My biggest issue with footage from a lot of DJI cameras is moiree. This includes Phantom (all models, not tested P4P) and Osmo.
Professional tv cameras have a low pass filter installed behind the lens and in front of the sensor that eliminates moiree, but most combined stills and video cameras can't have that because that would be useless for the high resolution stills camera part.
Even if the moiree is not always very visible on a computer screen, it might be very visible and annoying when seen on a television screen. I have even seen expensive Hollywood aerials with the dreaded moiree!

The trick to eliminate/reduce moiree can be to lower sharpness in the recording settings in the camera, but it will not always help.
The solution is to make a small blur between the TV lines (vertically).
First I tried using a blur effect built in to the editing programme and make a small vertical blur. This helped, but as I applied more vertical blur, before all the moiree was gone the picture had become too softened.
By coincidence I tried a Boris Continuum effect called Lens Blur, and that seemed too do the trick! This is a third party plugin available for most editing programmes.

I have tried this in Avid Media Composer, Final Cut Pro X, and Quantel and the result were perfect!

The Lens Blur effect is available in Boris Continuum Complete package, or just the Blur and sharpening category if you don't have the whole package.

Here is what you have to do:

This is tested with a 25 frame rate. I guess 24/30 will do good also, but higher frame rates did not give the desired result. I read somewhere this is due to a limitation in the Phantom cameras ability to process the higher rates.)

For Avid Media Composer:
Project setting must be set to 24/25/30 frame rate (according to your footage) while the effect is rendered. When the effect is rendered the project can be switched back to 1080i50 or equivalent.

Apply the Lens Blur effect from Boris Continuum.

Set the following parameters:
Iris: 1,0
Scale X: 10
Scale Y: 50 (this value can be set higher or lower if needed)
Render.

Done! Moiree is gone.

-------

Final Cut Pro X / Quantel:

Do the same as described above for Media Composer, except the Project can be kept in Interlaced mode if that's your original project setting...

I have not tested this for Premiere Pro, so if someone has the possibility to do so, please report back.

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That's a great tip. Thanks a bunch.

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hammer737 · Feb 21, 2017

mavic 2.7k 30fps 1/60th (f/2.2 fixed) shutter nd8 in 1080p repost

p4p 2.7k 30fps 1/60th f/5.6 shutter nd8 in 1080p

just a comparison of the straight edges...
i know 2 different machines

ChopSticks · Feb 21, 2017

Window edges look much smoother now, what's different from this video post #102 and the first post? looks like they're both 1/60 with nd8

hammer737 · Feb 21, 2017

ChopSticks said:
Window edges look much smoother now, what's different from this video post #102 and the first post? looks like they're both 1/60 with nd8

-the 1st #102 video is mavic 2.7k 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8...
-the thread starter vid is mavic 4K UHD 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8
-the 2nd vid in post #102 is the p4p 2.7k 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8 (just to compare)

as some other posters suggested that 2.7k 30fps is best to use on the mavic...but as we're finding out some users may have the possible same issue with the juddering /stuttering of straight edges with left or right panning. ie; user Razors has sent the mavic in to be either replaced or repaired, but some don't have.
Some have been ok and with a slower technique.
I will test more slower panning with the mavic
and see what I find...but may have to be sent back.

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sosmaverick · Feb 22, 2017

As the mavic is my first drone, I maybe should have gone for the P4P. OP has definitely improved the footage though since the 4K UHD initial vid. I hope it's possible to get a decent compromise however, as the mavic's size is perfect when travelling the world. I love shooting RAW stills with the mavic, but I just can't get good footage out of it yet. The thread is definitely helping. OP, if you good keep us posted and summarise the best settings after all your testing to use the mavic, I'd be super grateful.

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sosmaverick · Feb 22, 2017

hammer737 said:
-the 1st #102 video is mavic 2.7k 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8...
-the thread starter vid is mavic 4K UHD 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8
-the 2nd vid in post #102 is the p4p 2.7k 30fps 1/60th shutter nd8 (just to compare)

as some other posters suggested that 2.7k 30fps is best to use on the mavic...but as we're finding out some users may have the possible same issue with the juddering /stuttering of straight edges with left or right panning. ie; user Razors has sent the mavic in to be either replaced or repaired, but some don't have.
Some have been ok and with a slower technique.
I will test more slower panning with the mavic
and see what I find...but may have to be sent back.

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What ND filters are you using out of interest.. are the taco ones the best available?

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Johanna · Feb 22, 2017

ChopSticks said:
Can someone post an video with the obvious imperfections being discussed here vs how a video should look? I keep looking at these vimeo videos and with the exception of the swirly roof top I can't tell the difference. Maybe it's tired eyes or ****** monitor but could someone please provide drastic examples of each just so I know exactly what to look for?

Here is mine of 'stuttering" video.
Look a bit better directly off the SD card, but you get the idea.

sosmaverick · Feb 22, 2017

The second vid looks a lot smoother to me. We're these shot at the same shutter speeds etc? If so then there's definitely some that need to be sent back. The footage from a the first vid looked as though it came from an old Sony Ericsson flip phone [emoji23]

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Johanna · Feb 22, 2017

sosmaverick said:
The second vid looks a lot smoother to me. We're these shot at the same shutter speeds etc? If so then there's definitely some that need to be sent back. The footage from a the first vid looked as though it came from an old Sony Ericsson flip phone [emoji23]

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Yes, same settings for both. Difference is first one is from Mavic 1 which is on its way back, 2nd is from Mavic 2, the replacement. Original footage on #2 is near perfect, appears a little more shaky here. Still need to tweak a few settings, and this was just hand-held. Will get a chance to actually fly as soon as weather permits. ISO 100/50, 2.7K//30, wB5000, ND16Filter. Also did several settings, same result comparisons.

toegema · Feb 22, 2017

Johanna said:
Here is mine of 'stuttering" video.

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Look a bit better directly off the SD card, but you get the idea.

Those clips look as expected.
Low frame rates (24/25/30) combined with high shutter (sometimes also with low shutter if movement is fast) give this look. Try moving sideways like a dolly instead of panning. Professional film photographers have taken these considerations from the beginning of the days of motion pictures.

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Johanna · Feb 22, 2017

toegema said:
Those clips look as expected.
Low frame rates (24/25/30) combined with high shutter (sometimes also with low shutter if movement is fast) give this look. Try moving sideways like a dolly instead of panning. Professional film photographers have taken these considerations from the beginning of the days of motion pictures.

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Will be doing full testing in the days to come, including your suggestions..thanks.

toegema · Feb 22, 2017

Try a testclip in 720 or 1080 with a higher frame rate and you should see a difference. This is why traditional TV videographers shooting at the higher TV frame rates 50i/60i can move and pan much quicker without getting the strobe like stutter than film photographers can shooting 24 fps. There is actually very little horisontal movement you can do before getting the stutter look. Even with real film cameras.

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Wacker2611 · Feb 22, 2017

I'm not saying it's the case for all, but many of these issues are coming from people (like me) that are used to the very usable 60fps options that are available on the Phantoms. With 60fps, you just don't need to worry yourself about the speed of your panning etc as the results are always crystal clear and almost totally stable. The purists have always insisted that 30fps and below is better for a more 'cinematic' less 'soapy' look, but for us hobbyists that's bullshite. I've grown to love the camera, it just takes extra work to get the best stuff.

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MavicKhan · Feb 22, 2017

There is nothing wrong with your Mavic.

All the considerations to reduce what you see have been addressed here, one way or another, mainly:

- ND Usage.
- Settings adjustments in DJI Go 4
- Formats and frame rates
- Post processing techniques.
- Moire reduction in PP through significant amounts of invested money.

There are only 3 considerations left:

1. Pans have to be extremely smooth with these kind of low-tier 4K consumer cameras.
2. If you start to decompose the price down from the Mavic's selling value through merchants profit margins, taxes, transportation, DJI's fixed and variable costs as a company and the various individual parts, you quickly come to the conclusion that this is a 50-75$-tops 4K camera. Don't expect it to be what it is not.
3. The more engaging the footage, the less noticeable the limitations.

The strong point of the Mavic is the "Cost-Performance-Compactness" triangle. Remove one of these 3 vertices and it is a less than optimal offer, regarding the other 2, including what pertains to overall video quality.

MK

ChopSticks · Feb 22, 2017

MavicKhan said:
There is nothing wrong with your Mavic.

All the considerations to reduce what you see have been addressed here, one way or another, mainly:

- ND Usage.
- Settings adjustments in DJI Go 4
- Formats and frame rates
- Post processing techniques.
- Moire reduction in PP through significant amounts of invested money.

There are only 3 considerations left:

1. Pans have to be extremely smooth with these kind of low-tier 4K consumer cameras.
2. If you start to decompose the price down from the Mavic's selling value through merchants profit margins, taxes, transportation, DJI's fixed and variable costs as a company and the various individual parts, you quickly come to the conclusion that this is a 50-75$-tops 4K camera. Don't expect it to be what it is not.
3. The more engaging the footage, the less noticeable the limitations.

The strong point of the Mavic is the "Cost-Performance-Compactness" triangle. Remove one of these 3 vertices and it is a less than optimal offer, regarding the other 2, including what pertains to overall video quality.

MK

Would a lower resolution and higher FPS eliminate the stuttering?

ChopSticks · Feb 22, 2017

Johanna said:
Here is mine of 'stuttering" video.

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Look a bit better directly off the SD card, but you get the idea.

still have no idea what I am supposed to be looking for, I'm staring at the lines of the door in the shed? on the left hand side and they seem straight in both videos. The only thing I'm noticing is there's like some clear wave thing that goes across the screen kind of like on the old tvs / vcr days. Maybe my screen is ****, or I've just been staring at these videos for way too long

hammer737 · Feb 22, 2017

toegema said:
Try a testclip in 720 or 1080 with a higher frame rate and you should see a difference. This is why traditional TV videographers shooting at the higher TV frame rates 50i/60i can move and pan much quicker without getting the strobe like stutter than film photographers can shooting 24 fps. There is actually very little horisontal movement you can do before getting the stutter look. Even with real film cameras.

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I was thinking of trying at 1080, but haven't others had less than desirable results because of the recommended use of 1080 for FPV Devices?

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hammer737 · Feb 22, 2017

sosmaverick said:
What ND filters are you using out of interest.. are the taco ones the best available?

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I used the Taco rc non-multi coated ND filters on the mavic

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hammer737 · Feb 22, 2017

sosmaverick said:
As the mavic is my first drone, I maybe should have gone for the P4P. OP has definitely improved the footage though since the 4K UHD initial vid. I hope it's possible to get a decent compromise however, as the mavic's size is perfect when travelling the world. I love shooting RAW stills with the mavic, but I just can't get good footage out of it yet. The thread is definitely helping. OP, if you good keep us posted and summarise the best settings after all your testing to use the mavic, I'd be super grateful.

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Just to be clear...the 2nd vid in post #102 is from the P4P with same settings as 1st vid of mavic in #102( done just to compare straight edges during panning)...but when comparing mavic at 4K UHD to mavic at 2.7k at 30fps 1/60th shutter...the latter appears better.
All vids I've posted are taken directly of SD card and sent through FCP.

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sosmaverick · Feb 22, 2017

hammer737 said:
Just to be clear...the 2nd vid in post #102 is from the P4P with same settings as 1st vid of mavic in #102( done just to compare straight edges during panning)...but when comparing mavic at 4K UHD to mavic at 2.7k at 30fps 1/60th shutter...the latter appears better.
All vids I've posted are taken directly of SD card and sent through FCP.

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yeh I'm with you.. that's why I'm kinda gutted I didn't just go for a P4P, but I just can't backpack the world with that sorta size. I will get one when I settle in Oz and find my feet. If you're looking to get into film and doc making (which I am), it's gotta be done with P4P. However, for now the Mavic's what I've got and so far I've taken some epic stills but have yet to yield the best video from it.. 2.7k does look much better from your footage though. Will look to order the taco filters for when I'm back in the uk next month.

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