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[Ty Pilot]

Does info come in the box telling them what they can and can’t do with their drone if they want to just fly recreationally, want to take video and make money, where they can fly, etc?? For example here’s another post about a very specific thing-how does a new flyer even know about this restriction? "Flying over people" Drone Classifications

Yes, most drones' users manual has plenty of places where there are warnings about obeying all local, and state as well as federal laws. However many folks seldom refer back to the manual if they have a problem, it seems to be easier to come on a forum and ask a question than it is to read. Now days all of the manuals are PDF's that you must download. I know all DJI drones have warnings written on the outside of the box telling users NOT to use the drones before reading the manual but that almost never happens.

Some drone have paper flyers included in the box that should 'tip off' a new user but here again, it has to be looked at and read. I would go so far as to say you almost can't read anything about a drone in a manual, or a flyer, a forum like this or even a description of a drone on a website without least coming across something that should indicate that flying a drone comes with responsibilities and that consumer drones are not toys.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I’ve often wondered how a person buying a drone for the first time would know about all the regs people should know about.

So lets say you are new and are doing a little shopping on a typical big retail website like Amazon.. . . .


Then perhaps you join a forum like this one . . . .


You've bought a drone and look on the box . . . .


Ok, so then you look at the manual, first thing you see . . . .


OK, so on to the safety guidelines and right at the top . . . .


So all the above warnings indicate that the FAA makes regulations for drones in the US and so on to the FAA's site and right on the first page. . . . .

 

[Captain Spock]

@ericole: TY for your compliment. Yes, my post generated a lot of great comments, esp those from @Ty Pilot.
For me as a relative newbie flyer, it boiled down to serious reading; scratch your head over what might, at first blush, appears to be conflicting information; serious reading again; search this forum for info; THEN ask on this forum like I did to benefit from breadth and depth of experience. I've been a member of several different forums for other different topics, games, etc. This one is hands down the best one I have ever experienced.
Bottom line: know the rules & have fun flying.

 

[ericole]

Yes, most drones' users manual has plenty of places where there are warnings about obeying all local, and state as well as federal laws. However many folks seldom refer back to the manual if they have a problem, it seems to be easier to come on a forum and ask a question than it is to read. Now days all of the manuals are PDF's that you must download. I know all DJI drones have warnings written on the outside of the box telling users NOT to use the drones before reading the manual but that almost never happens.

Some drone have paper flyers included in the box that should 'tip off' a new user but here again, it has to be looked at and read. I would go so far as to say you almost can't read anything about a drone in a manual, or a flyer, a forum like this or even a description of a drone on a website without least coming across something that should indicate that flying a drone comes with responsibilities and that consumer drones are not toys.

Good to know, but if all they say is something like "about obeying all local, and state as well as federal laws" that won't key anyone into anything in particular because thanks to crazy safety regulations and an over abundance of the nanny state (at least in the US) almost EVERY product has some statement like that on it. That wouldn't key in anyone that there are FAA regulations or anything of the sort.

 

[ericole]

So lets say you are new and are doing a little shopping on a typical big retail website like Amazon.. . . .
View attachment 161541

Then perhaps you join a forum like this one . . . .
View attachment 161542

You've bought a drone and look on the box . . . .
View attachment 161543

Ok, so then you look at the manual, first thing you see . . . .
View attachment 161544

OK, so on to the safety guidelines and right at the top . . . .
View attachment 161545

So all the above warnings indicate that the FAA makes regulations for drones in the US and so on to the FAA's site and right on the first page. . . . .
View attachment 161546

Thanks, and that is useful information, but other than the note on the Amazon page I don't see anything in the product info you posted that would tell someone they should go to the FAA website and read about drones and their regulations. I honestly am not sure how many people would even notice that statement on the Amazon site - websites are so full of info that a box like that doesn't exactly jump out. For those of us who have been doing it a while those things might seem obvious, but I don't think a newbie would be clued into that. Where you say,

all the above warnings indicate that the FAA makes regulations for drones

that's really not true. Only the Amazon page pointed to the FAA. The other notes about "safety info" etc wouldn't ever indicate to me to consider looking at the FAA site. Every product sold (at least in the US) has some kind of statement on it - even a cellphone charger has something like that!

I flew regular RC aircraft for years, many years ago, and all I had to do for that was put out my RF numbers at the field and go fly. It's a lot different now...which is why I wondered the question. I guess I'm just fortunate to go looking for info about my drone and ran across this Mavic forum where I could learn those things. BUT I did fly my drone quite a lot before finding any of this info.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Good to know, but if all they say is something like "about obeying all local, and state as well as federal laws" that won't key anyone into anything. . . .

So if you're told that you are buying something that may be regulated at local, state and the federal level, does that not cause some curiosity? Maybe it's just me but if I bought a 'widget' I have never owned before and saw the multiple warnings I posted, I would for sure do a simple google search which; within seconds would reveal enough to instill at least a little intellectual curiosity.

For example. Say I have never flown anything, but I heard the word 'drone'. Then I googled 'are there any rules for drones';

This is the return. . . . . .(NOTE) the FAA is the fifth hit. But still those returns alone would (for me), 'Key me in' all I needed

 

[Ty Pilot]

I flew regular RC aircraft for years, many years ago, and all I had to do for that was put out my RF numbers at the field and go fly. It's a lot different now...which is why I wondered the question. I guess I'm just fortunate to go looking for info about my drone and ran across this Mavic forum where I could learn those things. BUT I did fly my drone quite a lot before finding any of this info.

I've been an RC (and now 'drone') pilot for 45 years. My recollection of the RC days is different than you describe. Perhaps being active RC as drones were emerging gave me some insight that current new pilots do not have but as a former RC pilot, I can't image picking up a flying machine with the capabilities of a modern consumer drone and not having the thought cross my mind that 'these must be regulated' in some way. After all there were plenty of regulations for RC if I recall correctly.

 

[Captain Spock]

Debate, discussion or not. The bottom line is to fly within the rules and fly safely.

 

[ericole]

So if you're told that you are buying something that may be regulated at local, state and the federal level, does that not cause some curiosity? Maybe it's just me but if I bought a 'widget' I have never owned before and saw the multiple warnings I posted, I would for sure do a simple google search which; within seconds would reveal enough to instill at least a little intellectual curiosity.

For example. Say I have never flown anything, but I heard the word 'drone'. Then I googled 'are there any rules for drones';

This is the return. . . . . .(NOTE) the FAA is the fifth hit. But still those returns alone would (for me), 'Key me in' all I needed

View attachment 161548

I'm not saying *I* wouldn't - obviously I did and found this site which led me to all the regulations. But I work for a federal agency and am keyed in on those kinds of things. It just seems to me there would be something very specific included with the product either pointing to a website where a person can look up all the rules and regulations, or stating exactly which agencies have jurisdiction and pointing to them. Compare that to an automobile - there are all kinds of tests and licenses and things that have to be in hand to legally drive one on the roads. It would be hard to imagine any person wouldn't know that because it is so prevalent in society and something almost everyone eventually does. This is basically the same way in terms of regulations, but that legal stuff is really not prevalent in society (at least not from what I can tell).

I guess the real question is whether or not you think more, or less, people have purchased some type of drone and just taken them out and starting flying them without ever considering looking up any kind of regulations that might exist? My bet would be that there are a LOT more people buying and flying without doing that than those that are doing that. I could be wrong, but knowing how people generally do things my bet would be far fewer know the regs (or even that there are regs) than those that do.

As is shown by example on this site often, it's the people that don't follow (or don't even know to follow) the rules that cause issues for everyone. So it seems it would be in the manufacturers' best interests to do all they can to make sure people know the regulations their products fall under.

 

[ericole]

I've been an RC (and now 'drone') pilot for 45 years. My recollection of the RC days is different than you describe. Perhaps being active RC as drones were emerging gave me some insight that current new pilots do not have but as a former RC pilot, I can't image picking up a flying machine with the capabilities of a modern consumer drone and not having the thought cross my mind that 'these must be regulated' in some way. After all there were plenty of regulations for RC if I recall correctly.

I don't know about this:

ot having the thought cross my mind that 'these must be regulated' in some way.

There are all kinds of them sold in the toy section of stores and online that I think would NOT lead most people to believe they are regulated. I bought my son one several years ago for Christmas (well before the Mavic Pro) - a viper model with a camera from Walmart I think and never gave any consideration to that. If there are toy models, I would think most people would simply think a more expensive one is one with more capabilities - not more regulations on them. I'm just coming at this from a typical consumer mindset - not as someone who has flown RC and is now flying quadcopters. That's the whole basis of my original question - I don't believe MOST consumers think about regulations or things like that, but as we know they are still covered by them whether they know it or not.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I guess the real question is whether or not you think more, or less, people have purchased some type of drone and just taken them out and starting flying them without ever considering looking up any kind of regulations that might exist? My bet would be that there are a LOT more people buying and flying without doing that than those that are doing that.

On this; I am right with you, I would say a vast majority of first time buyers are somewhat, or completely unaware that drones are regulated. But here again I am talking about folks who have never flown anything.

My thought is that; okay - you buy your kid a fifty dollar drone that can fly 50 feet away or whatever - and that, I would agree is akin to a toy and would not even consider there be any regulations attached.

But once we're out buying 1-2 K drones with the kind of complexity level of operation and shear capability in terms of range, flight times and so forth. Well if you've never operated something like that, you're gonna need some help or assistance, you may look at some videos or join a forum or do some google searching to get up to speed.

And it is in that phase, the one of 'familiarization' that I don't see how someone doesn't come across something to 'key them in' as you say. Still I know it happens all the time.

 

[Ty Pilot]

As is shown by example on this site often, it's the people that don't follow (or don't even know to follow) the rules that cause issues for everyone. So it seems it would be in the manufacturers' best interests to do all they can to make sure people know the regulations their products fall under.

When I studied for the 107, I was surprised by some of things we had to learn, but there were other aspects of becoming a pilot, I was glad to see and were things that I learned the hard way but tried to instill in others that I trained to fly over the years. The dangers of hazardous attitudes is well explained and taught because naturally, it kills lot of folks every year in manned aviation.

But on the flip side of that coin, it was something I witnessed again and again in both RC and now drones. Anti-authority, impulsivity, invulnerability, macho, and resignation. These traits kill manned pilots almost every day, but also these traits crash a lot of drones and RC aircraft as well as cause problems for the rest of us.

Car manufacturers don't have to include pamphlets with their cars telling each buyer where to go to get licensed and how to register their vehicle because there is a 'system' in place around automobiles and driving.

The problem drones have, is they broke the 'system' that was in place - because now, new pilots don't need a hobby store, they don't join clubs where experienced individuals are there to help in the learning process and drones require little to no skill to get airborne.

And to your point, I don't think it would matter one bit to put more information into the box. Those who do not read what is already there will not be helped by adding yet more stuff to read. As a manufacturer, you walk a thin line between telling someone of all the hazards and pitfalls of your product, juxtaposed with selling it's simplicity and ease of use.

That said; we've had this conversation on this forum a while back and my thought is that perhaps it could fall to the retailers, much like alcohol. You think you'll ever see this at a Best Buy