RID Intricacies Come September

[SethB]

Not challenging. Any other documentation or certification from the strobe manufacturer besides their errant claims on their website?

What errant claim on what website by what manufacturer?

 

[Torque]

Not challenging. Any other documentation or certification from the strobe manufacturer besides their errant claims on their website?

Did your strobes come with certificates of compliance? Genuinely curious - I simply don't remember if mine did or not.

I have several drones, and I have a variety of FAA compliant strobes. Lume Cube, Firehouse, ViFly, etc. Each one had something like this in their description (C&P from Amazon):

• Meets Federal Regulations: 360º visibility from above for aerial pilots and 3+ mile visibility. Lume Cube drone strobe lights flash at 60 times/second with a 6+ hour run time for safe drone flying.
  
  
  But before I purchased any of them I watched the Pilot Institutes testing of those strobes as they verified each of the brands I have meet the 3 mile requirement. Be great if they did come with some certification proving that.
  
  

 

[SethB]

That's what I do as well. Since I have other drones that are >250g and I'm registered, if I want to add anything to my Mini drone, why not just also add a registration sticker to the drone as well? How hard can that be.

My Mini 2 is registered as well. Easy peasy for now. I can fly my 3 strobes on a Mini 2 with combined weight over 250g since it is registered. It’s not hard at all.

However, as noted earlier in this thread, the USA regs change on Sept. 16. As of that date if my Mini 2 exceeds 249.x grams because I’ve loaded it up, it will need to broadcast a RID signal. There’s lots of speculation as to how one might accomplish that, but we do not know:

* Will DJI release a firmware update for that drone that results in native RID compliance? All we really have is speculation - lots of it. We won’t know until we know. Anybody who claims to know doesn’t know. DJI customer service reps have made conflicting statements on this.

* What will the minimum cost and weight of FAA-compliant RID Broadcast Modules be in a few months? All we really have is speculation - lots of it. We won’t know until we know. Anybody who claims to know doesn’t know.

I won’t know if I’ll find a RID solution acceptable to me for the Mini 2 until at least September. That’s OK.

 

[mavic3usa]

What errant claim on what website by what manufacturer?

In your previous post, you mentioned the ViFly and the Firehouse. I have both of those are well. You also mentioned public written statement so I'm guessing that means website by sellers or the manufacturer's website. Then you mentioned due diligence on the weights so I'm pretty sure an advert on website alone is not "due diligence" so if that is a drone pilot's responsibility to check it out, what is our due diligence for strobe lights? I don't recall getting any documentation or certification with any of my strobes so I'm just asking....not trying to stir up anything. I don't weigh my equipment so I didn't think I had to verify the specs on my strobe either. Just wondering what the forum does for strobes that might be similar to what the forum does for weights?

 

[mavic3usa]

My Mini 2 is registered as well. Easy peasy for now. I can fly my 3 strobes on a Mini 2 with combined weight over 250g since it is registered. It’s not hard at all.

However, as noted earlier in this thread, the USA regs change on Sept. 16. As of that date if my Mini 2 exceeds 249.x grams because I’ve loaded it up, it will need to broadcast a RID signal. There’s lots of speculation as to how one might accomplish that, but we do not know:

* Will DJI release a firmware update for that drone that results in native RID compliance? All we really have is speculation - lots of it. We won’t know until we know. Anybody who claims to know doesn’t know. DJI customer service reps have made conflicting statements on this.

* What will the minimum cost and weight of FAA-compliant RID Broadcast Modules be in a few months? All we really have is speculation - lots of it. We won’t know until we know. Anybody who claims to know doesn’t know.

I won’t know if I’ll find a RID solution acceptable to me for the Mini 2 until at least September. That’s OK.

This is certainly a discussion* for another time and place but I personally believe it points to the idea that a few g's here or there is not an issue.

*Changed from argument because we really should be having discussions among the community.

 

[SethB]

In your previous post, you mentioned the ViFly and the Firehouse. I have both of those are well. You also mentioned public written statement so I'm guessing that means website by sellers or the manufacturer's website. Then you mentioned due diligence on the weights so I'm pretty sure an advert on website alone is not "due diligence" so if that is a drone pilot's responsibility to check it out, what is our due diligence for strobe lights? I don't recall getting any documentation or certification with any of my strobes so I'm just asking....not trying to stir up anything. I don't weigh my equipment so I didn't think I had to verify the specs on my strobe either. Just wondering what the forum does for strobes that might be similar to what the forum does for weights?

I think this question circles around what is due diligence in concept and practice.

I suggest: Due diligence means that one recognizes risks and anticipates consequences, and takes the actions a reasonable person would take to control risks and mitigate consequences.

“What if the manufacturers are lying?” in the absence of any evidence or even any user reports at all is not a risk that I recognize.

 

[mavic3usa]

I think this question circles around what is due diligence in concept and practice.

I suggest: Due diligence means that one recognizes risks and anticipates consequences, and takes the actions a reasonable person would take to control risks and mitigate consequences.

“What if the manufacturers are lying?” in the absence of any evidence or even any user reports at all is not a risk that I recognize.

Agreed but if you fly out just a few with your ViFly, isn't it pretty apparent that you cannot see it at 3 miles away?

 

[Lennyg]

Agreed but if you fly out just a few with your ViFly, isn't it pretty apparent that you cannot see it at 3 miles away?

It seems like you are trying to police everyone. Why?
The manufacture's specs state 3mile vis. It is not up to the consumer to test and verify their products.

 

[Torque]

It seems like you are trying to police everyone. Why?
The manufacture's specs state 3mile vis. It is not up to the consumer to test and verify their products.

So if you see something on Ebay or Alibaba that says "visible for 3 miles" you're going to put your money on that eh?
"Yup, I'm in compliance because some vendor selling stuff promised I would be if I buy their stuff!"

 

[Lennyg]

So if you see something on Ebay or Alibaba that says "visible for 3 miles" you're going to put your money on that eh?
"Yup, I'm in compliance because some vendor selling stuff promised I would be if I buy their stuff!"

nope, im saying when the ACTUAL company puts out their specs, im not saying go by what someone on Ebay or Alibaba said. When the company puts out a video that specifically states that it meets the FAA requirements for night visibility. Yeah, ill use that as a defense any day.

 

[Torque]

nope, im saying when the ACTUAL company puts out their specs, im not saying go by what someone on Ebay or Alibaba said. When the company puts out a video that specifically states that it meets the FAA requirements for night visibility. Yeah, ill use that as a defense any day.

That is why I found the Pilot Instute Review so helpful. In real world testing some of those Strobes that claimed in their specs to be visible for 3 miles, weren't. I always look for third party, non sponsored reviews to weed out the claims that just don't hold up.

 

[mavic3usa]

It seems like you are trying to police everyone. Why?
The manufacture's specs state 3mile vis. It is not up to the consumer to test and verify their products.

Not trying to police anyone, would never want to take on that role.

My point is kinda seems like we pick and choose, we are pulling out scales to weigh down to the last g trying to "play by the rules" but don't bother to do anything about a 3-mile claim that is likely obvious once you deploy it in the field. I don't really care about either, no scales, no light readers for me. But if you flew out a mile and you could no longer see your strobe, would you refrain from using it at night? I'm just asking because I'm curious why the obsession with one but not the other when there is no obvious FAA intent (imho, for another thread) to the extent that someone would ground their drone if it weighed 1g over but happy to fly around at night in the dark? Did anyone check to see if the strobe is only 2.9 miles?

 

[SethB]

Agreed but if you fly out just a few with your ViFly, isn't it pretty apparent that you cannot see it at 3 miles away?

(I myself am flying Firehouse, not Vifly.)

I don't do any distance work at all, so I don't know. What do you see?

3sm visibility has to do with civil twilight and night flying. I would never fly my drone even a half-mile away.

Perhaps my flying is different than some; I'm focused on videography/cinematography with a little panorama thrown in.

As I wrote above, my primary use for strobes is daytime reacquisition of VLOS after looking down at the controller. It's pretty easy to lose a Mini 2 in a gray sky.

 

[Torque]

(I myself am flying Firehouse, not Vifly.)

I don't do any distance work at all, so I don't know. What do you see?

3sm visibility has to do with civil twilight and night flying. I would never fly my drone even a half-mile away.

Perhaps my flying is different than some; I'm focused on videography/cinematography with a little panorama thrown in.

As I wrote above, my primary use for strobes is daytime reacquisition of VLOS after looking down at the controller. It's pretty easy to lose a Mini 2 in a gray sky

The requirement that a drone strobe is visible for 3 miles is not to extend our VLOS, but to ensure that a manned aircraft can see the strobe from 3 miles.
There is not a strobe color requirement, but some of those strobes that have 3 colors to choose from are only visible from the required distance when in the "white" mode. Red and Green seem to fade with distance. I've yet to see a manufacturer mention that fact in their specs.

 

[tlyons]

I have a Mini 2 which is FAA registered, hold a 107 card, a TRUST Certificate, and have CBO guidance (copies of all with me when flying). When I fly, the M2 has 3 light weight strobes attached (to aid maintaining VLOS) so, it exceeds the 249g limit. For the time being, I fly only recreationally. With all this in mind, I have confusion about being RID compliant come September. I’ve read the FAA regs but, am still unsure what my status will be.

Depending on what will be required, i.e. a strap on RID module, or drone upgrade, I’m interested in fact based guidance as to what situation I’ll be in. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

List of drones that comply with RID: UAS Declaration of Compliance I would not expect DJI to add any other old drones to that, particularly not those that OOB are under 250g.

I admire your diligently following the rules but a 255g drone is not any greater practical risk than a 249g drone. Since I have never, ever had anyone ask me about my drone, other than "how high does it go?" I will worry about 290g vs 250g when someone asks.

Far more important to fly safe which it sounds you are.

 

[Torque]

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[dart106]

How are you guys making sure these strobes are visible from 3 statute miles? You are using scales to weigh everything to comply with <250g, what about the strobes? Or, are you just giving that regulation a "pass" or the benefit of the doubt?

Manufacturer claims of 3 miles vis. Can’t imagine being able to see my Mini 2 3 miles away, unless it was during a moonless night.

 

[RGS2010]

I have a Mini 2 which is FAA registered, hold a 107 card, a TRUST Certificate, and have CBO guidance (copies of all with me when flying). When I fly, the M2 has 3 light weight strobes attached (to aid maintaining VLOS) so, it exceeds the 249g limit. For the time being, I fly only recreationally. With all this in mind, I have confusion about being RID compliant come September. I’ve read the FAA regs but, am still unsure what my status will be.

Depending on what will be required, i.e. a strap on RID module, or drone upgrade, I’m interested in fact based guidance as to what situation I’ll be in. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

That brings up a good point. If you have a 249g drone that does not need registering and you strap a remote RID (or strobe lights) on it...Voila!...you are now over 249g and you have to register it. They should pass an exception for these types of issues if they really want compliance.