Paypal Goods and Services and a bad seller

[Cafguy]

OMG!!-- I just took a peek at that add! Are they actually pulling the plastic out of the molds while it is still hot! The add you found shows batteries with handprints all over them. WOW do people actually buy batteries that are made this poorly?
Also I may owe an apology to the seller Make things right with the buyer thru email discussion with them and you have my sincere apology. also to the seller don't buy junk from aliExpress!

 

[Kuiper Denizen]

Has anyone contacted “Jeff” for an explanation?

I’ve fortunately never tried Pay Pal. The only reason I would, would be the protection for the buyer I was lead to believe existed.

Apparently that’s a fiction. There’s nothing safer than an in person exchange.

 

[mavic3usa]

Paypal gives you the option of using paypal as a creditor or any card you own as a creditor when you buy something with their paypal service. If you use your own card, you will see a paypal transaction on that card. You can easily dispute the paypal transaction. Most credit card companies already have a distrust of paypal and amazon charges and are more than likely to refund a charge, if you tell them about it in a timely manner.

You can tell your credit card company all kinds of things to get your money back. You can say the product wasn't as described, it doesn't work, it's not the product you ordered. You can even say they sent a box, with a paper weight in it. The credit card company will then credit your card fully. Paypal on the other hand, if you use their credit, will give you the run around.

I’ve fortunately never tried Pay Pal. The only reason I would, would be the protection for the buyer I was lead to believe existed.

Apparently that’s a fiction. There’s nothing safer than an in person exchange.

Fortunately for most of us that use paypal on an almost daily basis, this isn't even close to being the truth. I get it you might be generalizing and perhaps *some* of it may have been more accurate 15 years ago, alot has changed now. Credit card companies don't distrust paypal. Maybe a rep with their personal opinion on the telephone might have frowned on you when you called it in just to keep the conversation sane but every credit card company willfully approves their card being used thru Paypal, it would be insane not to allow it. Paypal will absolutely cover you with protection (used it a dozen times) but you have to follow the rules which sometimes are not easy to understand. Not saying this is what happened here but in the past, too many buyers bought stuff using Paypal knowing they could just complain and make up stores and get their money back and the FSA use to rule over the seller....no longer.

We don't know how this entire transaction went down and the timing so until the facts are in, can't point the finger at Paypal. Unfortunately there's a process and details matter and unfortunately if the seller knows the process better than the buyer, it may work out to his advantage. Sometimes you just gotta notice the red flags. Being able to return the goods would mean you get a refund so it's likely the seller got the case closed by Paypal before you could hit that button and create the return; so clicking on that button would never go anywhere ever. Sometimes just a simple "all sales are final" is enough to get Paypal to act because (not saying you did this) but it has happened a million times where you sell something, the buyers gets your used goods, it's a little bit too used for them and they feel cheated, they complain and start a refund, and the return box has a rock in it.

 

[EricJT]

Has anyone contacted “Jeff” for an explanation?

I’ve fortunately never tried Pay Pal. The only reason I would, would be the protection for the buyer I was lead to believe existed.

Apparently that’s a fiction. There’s nothing safer than an in person exchange.

Hopefully in a safe place in case the seller has ulterior motives. Ya, me being a cynic.

 

[mavic3usa]

Paypal used to be the biggest problem with FTF transactions because sellers didn't know the rules. The trick was to buy from someone local and pay them with paypal (at that time, the only way to use a credit card) and offer to pickup locally (to save the shipping charges). The Paypal rules state if you accept a Paypal payment, you *must* obtain a tracking number and without one, you are 100% SOL in every instance if the buyer claim fraud. And, on top of that, the tracking number has to show "delivered." Buyer knew this, sellers didn't...they cleaned up. The only reason to sell FTF is if you have an item you cannot ship or you expect to receive cash only (which is unlikely for a big ticket item). There is no "safe" place, not even in the police station parking lot.

 

[slozukimc]

Fortunately for most of us that use paypal on an almost daily basis, this isn't even close to being the truth. I get it you might be generalizing and perhaps *some* of it may have been more accurate 15 years ago, alot has changed now. Credit card companies don't distrust paypal. Maybe a rep with their personal opinion on the telephone might have frowned on you when you called it in just to keep the conversation sane but every credit card company willfully approves their card being used thru Paypal, it would be insane not to allow it. Paypal will absolutely cover you with protection (used it a dozen times) but you have to follow the rules which sometimes are not easy to understand. Not saying this is what happened here but in the past, too many buyers bought stuff using Paypal knowing they could just complain and make up stores and get their money back and the FSA use to rule over the seller....no longer.

We don't know how this entire transaction went down and the timing so until the facts are in, can't point the finger at Paypal. Unfortunately there's a process and details matter and unfortunately if the seller knows the process better than the buyer, it may work out to his advantage. Sometimes you just gotta notice the red flags. Being able to return the goods would mean you get a refund so it's likely the seller got the case closed by Paypal before you could hit that button and create the return; so clicking on that button would never go anywhere ever. Sometimes just a simple "all sales are final" is enough to get Paypal to act because (not saying you did this) but it has happened a million times where you sell something, the buyers gets your used goods, it's a little bit too used for them and they feel cheated, they complain and start a refund, and the return box has a rock in it.

I have used PP hundreds if not thousands of times. I have used the buyer protection. I know how it all works and how to go about things. There is an error that will not let the page to get the resolution info to load. Paypal admits there is a problem but it it taking them too long to fix it so my time to return the item has expired. It is a simple tech issue on PP’s part otherwise I would have returned the battery, got my refund and all would have been fine.

 

[MS Coast]

Hopefully in a safe place in case the seller has ulterior motives. Ya, me being a cynic.

There is no "safe" place, not even in the police station parking lot.

Are these fears based on first-hand experiences?

I occasionally read about in-person illicit drug sales becoming dangerous. I've had no problems in decades of buying and selling things in person - drones, cars, sacks of oysters, cameras, tools, fruit trees, canoes, kayaks, sailboats, skiffs, outboard motors, ... Are yard sales potential threats? How about those little girls in uniforms who ring the doorbell with boxes of cookies?

 

[Felix le Chat]

Are these fears based on first-hand experiences?

I occasionally read about in-person illicit drug sales becoming dangerous. I've had no problems in decades of buying and selling things in person - drones, cars, sacks of oysters, cameras, tools, fruit trees, canoes, kayaks, sailboats, skiffs, outboard motors, ... Are yard sales potential threats? How about those little girls in uniforms who ring the doorbell with boxes of cookies?

**WARNING** The following comment may contain traces of both nuts and humour.

The little girls selling cookies door to door are one of life's true threats..... Type 2 diabetes in a box.

 

[Kuiper Denizen]

Fortunately for most of us that use paypal on an almost daily basis, this isn't even close to being the truth. I get it you might be generalizing and perhaps *some* of it may have been more accurate 15 years ago, alot has changed now. Credit card companies don't distrust paypal. Maybe a rep with their personal opinion on the telephone might have frowned on you when you called it in just to keep the conversation sane but every credit card company willfully approves their card being used thru Paypal, it would be insane not to allow it. Paypal will absolutely cover you with protection (used it a dozen times) but you have to follow the rules which sometimes are not easy to understand. Not saying this is what happened here but in the past, too many buyers bought stuff using Paypal knowing they could just complain and make up stores and get their money back and the FSA use to rule over the seller....no longer.

We don't know how this entire transaction went down and the timing so until the facts are in, can't point the finger at Paypal. Unfortunately there's a process and details matter and unfortunately if the seller knows the process better than the buyer, it may work out to his advantage. Sometimes you just gotta notice the red flags. Being able to return the goods would mean you get a refund so it's likely the seller got the case closed by Paypal before you could hit that button and create the return; so clicking on that button would never go anywhere ever. Sometimes just a simple "all sales are final" is enough to get Paypal to act because (not saying you did this) but it has happened a million times where you sell something, the buyers gets your used goods, it's a little bit too used for them and they feel cheated, they complain and start a refund, and the return box has a rock in it.

mavic3usa,

I appreciate the time you took to reply, but no matter how many times I read your post, I’m still not instilled with confidence on the reliability of PayPal.

If a buyer has to go through a warren of rabbit holes without knowing the correct passage to take and getting lost in the maze with no one who can help or even wants to help, I think I’ll stick to the old fashioned way of making a purchase - in person!

 

[MARK (LI)]

Perhaps the Site should have a Feedback Forum, so guys like @JEFFMM1 are exposed for what they are when they pull something like this...and where reputable sellers are recognized

 

[Feek]

Perhaps the Site should have a Feedback Forum, so guys like @JEFFMM1 are exposed for what they are when they pull something like this...and where reputable sellers are recognized

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn because I have no idea how the forum is moderated/administered.

There are feedback addons for Xenforo so it should be quite straightforward to implement if it was wanted. It could also be possible to lock down the Classified sub forum to those who have been members for a set period of time and have a minimum post count. I've not been active here long so I don't know how often deals go sour, I would hope not very often.
I would also hope that this member no longer has access to the classified sub.

 

[MARK (LI)]

I am a staff member on a Tractor Forum, and we have a 15 / 15 rule...you have to be a member for a minimum of 15 days, and have a minimum of 15 posts....it works fairly well at keeping people from joining to scam people, but in this case @JEFFMM1 has been a member for almost 5 years, and has enough posts that he would not have been precluded from posting in the classifieds......

 

[Feek]

15 / 15 rule...you have to be a member for a minimum of 15 days, and have a minimum of 15 posts...

180/1000 on the forum I admin!

 

[Kuiper Denizen]

Perhaps the Site should have a Feedback Forum, so guys like @JEFFMM1 are exposed for what they are when they pull something like this...and where reputable sellers are recognized

I’m loathe to allow someone who is just as anonymous as the seller - and the rest of us - to post something negative about someone else which might be as difficult to substantiate as the action of the alleged grifter.

This forum has monitors that regulate the content of what we post. They might be the only people we could trust enough to investigate these matters, but what would be the standard to judge by? And would these monitors want this added responsibility?

Perhaps we as individuals need to decide for ourselves if a purchase is worth the sight unseen, product-is-the-mail-when-the-money-order-arrives.

Sellers are equally at risk. I know some who won’t take a check without waiting for it to clear for fear of it bouncing after they ship the item.

“One may smile and smile and be a villain.”

We live in world, it seems, where lying is an acceptable element of negotiation.

Buyers and sellers beware! Apparently the only reality.

 

[MARK (LI)]

I was on a metal detecting forum that had a very active classifieds section, and the feedback worked well...mostly positive, because it kept everyone honest .... if a guy ripped someone off he would be exposed, and no one wanted that to happen to them...and if someone inaccurately accused someone of being a scammer...the accused could respond to defend himself...it worked...it worked well

 

[slozukimc]

I must add that I did speak with Jeff a couple times and he wanted me to ship the battery back and then wait for him to get paid about three weeks later. I told him I would be glad to ship the battery back after getting a refund seeing the fault was on him and he refused. I waited as long as I could before escalating the dispute.

I have used PP many times and this the first time I had any trouble. I would not have even posted had it not been for the tech issue with PP. I think this may be an isolated incident, at least I hope so, and may be an un-needed warning other than to beware of the seller.

 

[mavic3usa]

I must add that I did speak with Jeff a couple times and he wanted me to ship the battery back and then wait for him to get paid about three weeks later. I told him I would be glad to ship the battery back after getting a refund seeing the fault was on him and he refused. I waited as long as I could before escalating the dispute.

I have used PP many times and this the first time I had any trouble. I would not have even posted had it not been for the tech issue with PP. I think this may be an isolated incident, at least I hope so, and may be an un-needed warning other than to beware of the seller.

No judgment.

 

[MARK (LI)]

So ....Jeff may have been willing to make it right?....it sounds to me that ....first of all you should have mentioned that in your original post ...from the way you described the battery, it was not useable, you had nothing to lose if you sent it and he did not refund your money...I believe you should have attempted that before posting on the forum about it

 

[Starz]

you had nothing to lose if you sent it

There are several avenues this could have traveled. If the OP sent it back and didn’t receive his refund, would he not have lost his money???? Are you assuming that PayPal would at some point resolve the matter which could certainly happen at some point in time. Just curious.
Another avenue would have been for the seller to send the refund and solve two issues. Keep a satisfied customer and not have these kind of posts visible for all to see. It is possible that the seller simply didn’t have the available funds to return so I can see his side to this unfortunate transaction.

 

[slozukimc]

So ....Jeff may have been willing to make it right?....it sounds to me that ....first of all you should have mentioned that in your original post ...from the way you described the battery, it was not useable, you had nothing to lose if you sent it and he did not refund your money...I believe you should have attempted that before posting on the forum about it

Would you be willing to risk sending an item back to a seller that screwed you over to begin with? Would you allow them to wait until one day before the case is not allowed to be escalated to maybe pay you? Knowing that if they don’t you have no recourse if they don’t.

After the sketchy communication and being once bitten twice shy I think your suggestions are ridiculous. Take a look at the dates. Jeff has had plenty of time and opportunity to step up and make this right. Where is he now? Why isn’t he defending himself if there was a slim chance he is right? I am sick of this crap of turning things around on people that have been screwed over. I am the victim here and you want to try to say I did not do enough. That sucks man.