Penalties and liabilities for flying small commercial jobs w/o Part 107 license?

[vindibona1]

As a disclaimer I am not advocating doing anything that is illegal, but my curiosity leads me ponder some things. In fact I've registered with the FAA because I know my MM will have lights and other accessories attached.

Right now Part 107 testing seems to be at a standstill and the FAA has granted extensions on Part 107 licenses that are due to expire and need retesting. Obviously they are not doing anything (I don't think) for any pilots ready to take the test- but can't because of the COVID shut-down. While I'd like to take the test as soon as I am ready, I'm not going to start doing any work for money until licensed. As a brand new pilot, but long time professional commercial photographer with contacts I could get work and have already turned down work (for many reasons, including legality). I have to suspect there are a lot guys doing small jobs without a Part 107.

So just wondering, what are the penalties and potential liabilities for those operating unlicensed? Have many people been prosecuted for taking work without a license? Again, I'm just wondering. In some ways the sense of the strict requirement is incongruent with certain situations. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to take an aerial portrait of my family in our front yard, but if I were to do the same for a neighbor, who in return gave me a 5th of Jack Daniels I'd be outside the law. Flying is flying. Why aren't there shades of gray and how many (of you?) are "operating in the shadows"?

'Splain it to me, Lucy.

 

[itsneedtokno]

Did you know about our sister forum?!

Commercial Drone Pilots Forum

Commercial Drone, UAV, UAS Industry Discussions

commercialdronepilots.com

But I'm sure people will chime in here too. It's gonna be touch and go though.

Lately everybody seems to be in a tiff about the laws and such.

 

[vindibona1]

Did you know about our sister forum?!

Commercial Drone Pilots Forum

Commercial Drone, UAV, UAS Industry Discussions

commercialdronepilots.com

But I'm sure people will chime in here too. It's gonna be touch and go though.

Lately everybody seems to be in a tiff about the laws and such.

Thank you for directing me there. I"ll be sure to check out the posts there.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

As a disclaimer I am not advocating doing anything that is illegal, but my curiosity leads me ponder some things. In fact I've registered with the FAA because I know my MM will have lights and other accessories attached.

Right now Part 107 testing seems to be at a standstill and the FAA has granted extensions on Part 107 licenses that are due to expire and need retesting. Obviously they are not doing anything (I don't think) for any pilots ready to take the test- but can't because of the COVID shut-down. While I'd like to take the test as soon as I am ready, I'm not going to start doing any work for money until licensed. As a brand new pilot, but long time professional commercial photographer with contacts I could get work and have already turned down work (for many reasons, including legality). I have to suspect there are a lot guys doing small jobs without a Part 107.

So just wondering, what are the penalties and potential liabilities for those operating unlicensed? Have many people been prosecuted for taking work without a license? Again, I'm just wondering. In some ways the sense of the strict requirement is incongruent with certain situations. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to take an aerial portrait of my family in our front yard, but if I were to do the same for a neighbor, who in return gave me a 5th of Jack Daniels I'd be outside the law. Flying is flying. Why aren't there shades of gray and how many (of you?) are "operating in the shadows"?

'Splain it to me, Lucy.

Many people have asked if its ok to do a favor for someone and if its okay if they want to donate something to you because your not actually a business.
Makes sense we have all helped out a friend and gotten payment for it.

The problem comes when something goes wrong and you have no insurance, not permit : These now become two critical factors that our going to be brought up in court and here lies your demise.

Where as the guys that have the 107 our going to have some better protection in the court of laws when bad things happen, and if you fly a drone , life and property can become serious.

Can you get away with helping your neighbor see if his gutters are clear , sure but if you smash into his front window and the police come, and they start talking ;
I told my buddy i would give him $20 bucks to check my gutters for me , as they say the can just opened up.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Drone in the Rain
Coal

 

[vindibona1]

Many people have asked if its ok to do a favor for someone and if its okay if they want to donate something to you because your not actually a business.
Makes sense we have all helped out a friend and gotten payment for it.

The problem comes when something goes wrong and you have no insurance, not permit : These now become two critical factors that our going to be brought up in court and here lies your demise.

Where as the guys that have the 107 our going to have some better protection in the court of laws when bad things happen, and if you fly a drone , life and property can become serious.

Can you get away with helping your neighbor see if his gutters are clear , sure but if you smash into his front window and the police come, and they start talking ;
I told my buddy i would give him $20 bucks to check my gutters for me , as they say the can just opened up.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Drone in the Rain
Coal

Yep... You cited many of my personal concerns, hence holding off on taking any work until I have 107+ liability insurance. Mostly civil liability stuff.

So given your $20/front window/cops called scenario, beyond the liability of fixing the window or whatever damage, what do you think the level of prosecustion might be for such a minor incident? Would the FAA or some Federal branch get involved? Would something like this be handled on the local level?

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Yep... You cited many of my personal concerns, hence holding off on taking any work until I have 107+ liability insurance. Mostly civil liability stuff.

So given your $20/front window/cops called scenario, beyond the liability of fixing the window or whatever damage, what do you think the level of prosecustion might be for such a minor incident? Would the FAA or some Federal branch get involved? Would something like this be handled on the local level?

Most of the States have given Permission to the police for discretion unless any Federal laws our broken and than they have to report to the FAA.
The most police can do with something like this is take the drone , ipad or phone , make an arrest , appear in court pay a fine / require you to pay damages most likely.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Not all of the PSI testing centers are closed - you can go to the PSI website and check to see if there is one near you or at least in a region you could get to. Interestingly enough, learning all that goes into a 107 certification requires you to know some of what you are asking. If you are a 107 then this is covered in 107.9:


“No later than 10 calendar days after an operation that meets the criteria of either paragraph (a) or (b) of this section, a remote pilot in command must report to the FAA, in a manner acceptable to the Administrator, any operation of the small unmanned aircraft involving at least:

(a) Serious injury to any person or any loss of consciousness; or

(b) Damage to any property, other than the small unmanned aircraft, unless one of the following conditions is satisfied:

(1) The cost of repair (including materials and labor) does not exceed $500; or

(2) The fair market value of the property does not exceed $500 in the event of total loss.”

However if you are just a recreational flyer and have any accident where the police are called, that incident may be reported to the local FSDO as many police departments basically follow the FAA Law Enforcement guidelines for all UAV related calls. Doesn't mean the FAA will knock on your door but the incident may be investigated.

In your case as a photographer that could probably step into work quite quickly as compared to guys who are just flyers looking to get work, it might be worth finding a testing site and getting your certification.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Here is a good article that discusses penalties for flying commercially without a certification.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Here is a good article that discusses penalties for flying commercially without a certification.

So as not to completely terrify everyone > lol

 

[Ty Pilot]

LOL - yeah I was not trying to scare anyone, I just thought it was good because he does state what the limits the FAA can push are, and also he mentions only five cases where investigated in the first two months of 2019.

 

[Fred Garvin]

And don't forget, the person/company who hired the illegal operator faces possibly 10x the fine the illegal pilot would face. Response from the FAA on this:

 

[Jeff A]

Yep... You cited many of my personal concerns, hence holding off on taking any work until I have 107+ liability insurance. Mostly civil liability stuff.

So given your $20/front window/cops called scenario, beyond the liability of fixing the window or whatever damage, what do you think the level of prosecustion might be for such a minor incident? Would the FAA or some Federal branch get involved? Would something like this be handled on the local level?

Maybe not prosecution but then there is the Civil trial and the Lawsuit. Of course, I live in the Lawsuit capitol of the world AND I'm very near to the center of the Logic Free Zone!

 

[vindibona1]

Here is a good article that discusses penalties for flying commercially without a certification.

Thanks. It just doesn't seem worth not getting a 107 license. I've already started studying, but it will take some time before I'm ready. I shot a personal practice project (now uploaded in the "share my recordings" area), my first with a drone and I didn't do too badly considering I hadn't shot professional video for 35 years. No money or remuneration involved, though I may share it with the facility who graciously gave me permission to fly on their property. Still working on (and re-learning) video editing. With a little practice I think I'll be able to do this.

 

[CountryGuy]

The problem comes when something goes wrong...

Yep, that's always the bottom line.

There's many out there doing jobs for compensation without authorization. I know of a number in my own area. They'll likely continue to do so and avoid any consequences unless, something goes wrong and there's an "incident" involving damage to a person or property, or someone "rats them out". I expect that any consequences they would suffer as a result were such an incident to occur would be in proportion to the severity of the incident.

 

[WDKZoom]

While I would agree with the legalities of taking money for doing a friend a favor because you have the means with your drone but in the case of liability would the AMA or the insurance you can buy with each individual flight be subjected to the exclusion of taking a 6 pack for payment not necessarily for the asked favor “wink” “wink”?

It seems the same situation applies to any trade electrical, plumbing etc. I am a 30 year licensed journeyman electrician and I can do the job if my neighbor ask for help though I am no longer insured by the utility that I worked for and unlike drone insurance, I can’t get insurance by the “flight” or installation and in the case of something going wrong it will always boil down to can you pay for the damage.

WDK

 

[Slade]

Many people have asked if its ok to do a favor for someone and if its okay if they want to donate something to you because your not actually a business.
Makes sense we have all helped out a friend and gotten payment for it.

The problem comes when something goes wrong and you have no insurance, not permit : These now become two critical factors that our going to be brought up in court and here lies your demise.

Where as the guys that have the 107 our going to have some better protection in the court of laws when bad things happen, and if you fly a drone , life and property can become serious.

Can you get away with helping your neighbor see if his gutters are clear , sure but if you smash into his front window and the police come, and they start talking ;
I told my buddy i would give him $20 bucks to check my gutters for me , as they say the can just opened up.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Drone in the Rain
Coal

Bartering has been part of being American since before Concord. What you do as a favor to a friend is nobody’s business, least of all FAA’s.

 

[dirkclod]

Bartering has been part of being American since before Concord. What you do as a favor to a friend is nobody’s business, least of all FAA’s.

You are correct it has been in some cases and you are right again in a way but mess up and it will be the FAA’s business .
With those fines I don’t think I want any of that action.

 

[2Mavics4AManiac]

As a disclaimer I am not advocating doing anything that is illegal, but my curiosity leads me ponder some things. In fact I've registered with the FAA because I know my MM will have lights and other accessories attached.

Right now Part 107 testing seems to be at a standstill and the FAA has granted extensions on Part 107 licenses that are due to expire and need retesting. Obviously they are not doing anything (I don't think) for any pilots ready to take the test- but can't because of the COVID shut-down. While I'd like to take the test as soon as I am ready, I'm not going to start doing any work for money until licensed. As a brand new pilot, but long time professional commercial photographer with contacts I could get work and have already turned down work (for many reasons, including legality). I have to suspect there are a lot guys doing small jobs without a Part 107.

So just wondering, what are the penalties and potential liabilities for those operating unlicensed? Have many people been prosecuted for taking work without a license? Again, I'm just wondering. In some ways the sense of the strict requirement is incongruent with certain situations. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to take an aerial portrait of my family in our front yard, but if I were to do the same for a neighbor, who in return gave me a 5th of Jack Daniels I'd be outside the law. Flying is flying. Why aren't there shades of gray and how many (of you?) are "operating in the shadows"?

'Splain it to me, Lucy.

Your experience may differ but I scheduled and passed the 107 test within the last 2 weeks . was a easy process and seems to be moving quickly. Received my temp cert the day after the test

 

[Meta4]

So just wondering, what are the penalties and potential liabilities for those operating unlicensed?

That's been addressed by many posters already.

Have many people been prosecuted for taking work without a license?

This is a very different question and one that's hard to get an answer for.
It's likely that the answer is very close to zero.

 

[BushWacker]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?