Police showed up my house within 15 minutes of flight today

[BigAl07]

Funny story, my co worker asked me if I flew and bothered anyone with my drone lately as I was showing him some video a couple of weeks ago.

I told him not really as the terrorism task force came to my house and we both died laughing. He thought I was joking and I left it at that.

It is just so unbelievable that they would come to my door. Crazy to think about it. But I had to show you guys video as some of you did not even believe me.

I'll be the first to admit I was VERY skeptical to say the least.

 

[PhoebeSnow]

This is one reason that in addition to my many DJI Drones I have the Xiaomi Fimi X8. I'm not aware that they are into this technology as is DJI as they do not sell as many drones as DJI. But it is a fanatastic option to have available.

 

[mas2310]

I figured it out. Basically law enforcement most likely has what is called DJI Aeroscope. This is something that has been available for years and gives you all the information about your DJI Drone. That is how they showed up so quickly to my house. I did fly over a parade path, which was 2 hours before the parade but they investigate anyway.

The officer even knew what I was flying by saying, what are you flying a DJI Phantom, which was really a dJI Mini. He said he couldn't tell me how they know but said they would know if I fly it again. He also said that normally they would never care about flying it around but because there was a parade they had to investigate. He was fair and left.

He did throw around that you could be charged and even dropped the reckless endangerment charges, this is a criminal charge they can use on anyone really by saying you were reckless. Even if its only a 250 gram drone which you were flying 200 feet up in the air. Usually they would only charge you with this if someone got hurt but they could technically charge you even if nobody got hurt.

I've flown many times from my house without issue, the issue today was flying over a parade path. The police were at my house ringing the doorbell 15 minutes into my flight and while my drone was still in the air. I was inside my house the entire time.

Anyone who flies a DJI is basically being tracked and they know all your information. Just watch this youtube video.

Basically, every fight you do with a DJI Drone is being tracked and law enforcement can easily know everything, your return to home location, your exact flight path, everywhere you have flown, your Email address.

DJI Aeroscope Test - How To Monitor Rogue Drones, a Hands On Test.

Does this Aeroscope system also work if you are flying with Litchi or only with Go4 ????

 

[Keule]

Does this Aeroscope system also work if you are flying with Litchi or only with Go4 ????

Yes, it's dependent on DJI aircraft, no matter what control app is being used.

 

[MaJJx5]

I am all for privacy but considering what has happened in our country in the past, This gives me piece of mind just incase someone was up to some shady stuff. You were flying over a parade path where I am sure a lot of people were going to be. I am sure they have this technogoly on all drones. I am just glad its the police that have access to this information and not the public.

 

[Blume TMS]

Sounds like a number of rules were broken to me..... Drone out of sight? Over People?

 

[Philgib]

I tried once flying from inside my house. The connection cut after 10 meters outside. I guess because of the Faraday cage effect ( house made of cement / re-bars ). I stopped it immediately.

 

[MavicMikeMinh]

I "Saw" when he registered earlier today. We have to approve ALL new members to cut down on SPAM etc.

Ok NYC isn't exactly a 100 people settlement, hence to reveal this ain't a big deal, but I would kindly suggest that you do not spill ANY data that you have obtained due to your privileged position as admin. Your users must be able to rely on what this site does or does not say publicly about its members. For me a basic thing to observe.

Am I too sensitive?

 

[Bob4131]

So that was a pretty broad (and misleading) question you submitted. With that being said....

It sounds like the OP potentially broke this one:

NOTE: Flying drones in certain airspace is not allowed. but let's ignore that one because it's not been confirmed....

Then this one comes into play:

Keep your drone within your visual line of sight, or within the visual line-of-sight of a visual observer who is co-located (physically next to) and in direct communication with you.

How do you follow "VLOS" flying out the window and only looking at your screen (phone, tablet, TV screen)? While yes it probably "Could" be done if you're hovering/flying directly in front of the window do you think the OP (or anyone else) is going to fly directly out in front of the window in order to maintain VLOS? While it's possible the OP was sitting in such a way and his residence/window is situated in such a way that he COULD have looked up at any given moment and had eyes on the UAS.... the odds of that are incredibly small.

Keep in mind that while flying "out the window" with every increase in distance from the window the less Window Of Visibility you have. If you just fly up/off by a few degrees you quickly lose sight of the UAS.

And the next couple are somewhat the same so I'll lump them together.

How do you assure the following with "just" looking at your display device and having no other input (sound, situational awareness etc)?

• Give way to and do not interfere with manned aircraft.
• 
  
• Never fly over any person or moving vehicle.
• 
  
• Never interfere with emergency response activities such as disaster relief, any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.

I have a little bit of experience/interactions with the FAA and I can tell you that the odds of the OP's flight (or anyone else's for that matter) meeting all of the requirements set forth by the FAA are minuscule at best.

Big Al, it appears the FAA has a different opinion than you. You initially stated flying from indoors was not legal - ever, but that is not in the FAA regulations - period.
That being said, I would never fly from inside a house nor even a car which some 107 (certainly not all) operators have done. I totally agree that being outside with good situational awareness is crucial to a safe flight. I would suggest in the future that you lean more toward encouraging safe drone operation because of your experience and less on your own legal interpretation of the law. The reason is that when your legal argument falls apart, then people will discount your advice. In this case your advice was valid but the legal argument was not. Just something for you to consider.
Too often there are debates on this forum over if something is legal. Often it may be legal but not wise. Too often, I see people making claims that things are illegal and then losing credibility and therefore losing the opportunity to make a positive influence on others.
For example, it was legal for you to publish this person's location as NYC, but was it wise?

 

[Bob4131]

In it's current configuration yes only DJI. Back at a conference I was at in Cherokee NC (Public Safety Conference) one of the reps for a Security Firm said that AeroScope could already "See" any type of aircraft that has 2-way communication with a ground station but that DJI had not yet invested in translating the information etc from other manufacturers and they may end up leaving that to 3rd party vendors.

Looking at the link @2edgesword shared looks like that's exactly the route that is being "left open".

I think the better way to say this is the Aeroscope antenna receivers all radio signals over the spectrum used for controlling drones. However currently the Aeroscope software only works on interpreting and therefore displaying DJI control information. It "sees" garage door opener signals but there is no plan to create software to use it to allow people access to your garage.
Sorry, but "sees" implies it is doing more than it actually is doing. ?

 

[Jason H]

Counter terrorism task force showed up at my house about 15 minutes of flight. There was a parade starting in 2 hours and that is why they showed up.

I wasn't flying over my house and there is no way they could have known it was from my house. They came right to my house and even in my yard. I was at a window in my house at the time. There is no way they could have known which of the many houses with close back yards that the drone could have come from.

How did they know so quickly? Is this because they can log into DJI software and know my fly home address?

Tracked the location of signal sorce. We are able to triangulate the location of any electronically derived signal down to three meters

 

[Horus303]

I figured it out. Basically law enforcement most likely has what is called DJI Aeroscope. This is something that has been available for years and gives you all the information about your DJI Drone. That is how they showed up so quickly to my house. I did fly over a parade path, which was 2 hours before the parade but they investigate anyway.

The officer even knew what I was flying by saying, what are you flying a DJI Phantom, which was really a dJI Mini. He said he couldn't tell me how they know but said they would know if I fly it again. He also said that normally they would never care about flying it around but because there was a parade they had to investigate. He was fair and left.

He did throw around that you could be charged and even dropped the reckless endangerment charges, this is a criminal charge they can use on anyone really by saying you were reckless. Even if its only a 250 gram drone which you were flying 200 feet up in the air. Usually they would only charge you with this if someone got hurt but they could technically charge you even if nobody got hurt.

I've flown many times from my house without issue, the issue today was flying over a parade path. The police were at my house ringing the doorbell 15 minutes into my flight and while my drone was still in the air. I was inside my house the entire time.

Anyone who flies a DJI is basically being tracked and they know all your information. Just watch this youtube video.

Basically, every fight you do with a DJI Drone is being tracked and law enforcement can easily know everything, your return to home location, your exact flight path, everywhere you have flown, your Email address.

DJI Aeroscope Test - How To Monitor Rogue Drones, a Hands On Test.

But were there a temporary no fly zone? Did you check before you fly for that? The reason I’m asking is that it’s one thing if you really already violated a law or rule no matter how stupid you think it is and a situation when no warnings of any illegal activity was posted and it’s just law enforcement acting on individual whims (like the recent post from PA where park authority was trying to illegally ban drones)
Please explain the circumstances in more detail so we can all benefit from your experience.

 

[Bob4131]

If you live in New York, there are five parks that you can fly in.

NYPD is hunting rogue drones in New York City

CBS New York joined the NYPD on a mission to hunt drones in New York City. With the number of...

dronedj.com

There is a map at the above link.

I have no plans to fly in NYC but this prompted a thought. I know much of NYC is a FAA no fly zone. But does NYC prohibit drone flight in areas of Staten Island which the FAA does not prohibit drone flight AND take off/landing/control is from one's private property. If so, is that a state or city law? I understand the concern after 9/11. Thanks
NYC has so many specific laws applicable only there. Knife blades, turn on red, etc, etc...?

 

[mikea59]

I'm new to drones. Seems like this thread has turned into safety and legality discussion. I see a lot of contradiction in the drone community, like definition of VLOS and answer me this - how do you file a drone in a park in NYC where drones are permitted and NOT fly over people - I don't think it can be done.

 

[Horus303]

did you just join this forum to tell us something we already know,or were you trying to elicit a response for flying outside the rules

I really hope he is just trying to tell people to fly legally and safe.. but that’s too good to be true. Sigh.
I’m really concerned about people trying to “normalize” illegal behavior as “acceptable” so I’m taking the fact that the OP has never mentioned if he checked for a TFR zine as a “yes, he probably was flying in a TFR zone” and that’s scary for me both as a drone hobbyist AND a part of the general public that can be affected by reckless behavior from other drone operators.

 

[Bob4131]

I'm new to drones. Seems like this thread has turned into safety and legality discussion. I see a lot of contradiction in the drone community, like definition of VLOS and answer me this - how do you file a drone in a park in NYC where drones are permitted and NOT fly over people - I don't think it can be done.

That is a FAA requirement to not fly over people, NYC can not change that. Most parks that allow drones usually have very few people in them. I am not sure how popular are the ones in NYC are.

 

[Horus303]

You have to assume that there is Aeroscope all over a big city like NYC.

It seems their aeroscope receivers can work up to 50 km or 31 miles, easy able to cover the whole of NYC. NYC is not that large so they can easily have an aeroscope in every borough of the city and easily cover the whole city with a few of these devices.

So yes you are being recorded with every flight. If you do anything where they would consider it a terrorist act, like flying during an event, or even possibly near a government building or even a school. You will be easily traced and the counter terrorism task force will be at your door in 15 minutes and running in your yard. This is exactly what happened to me.

Aeroscope - DJI

DJI AeroScope is able to identify the vast majority of popular drones on the market today by monitoring and analyzing their electronic signals to gain critical information, allowing users to protect the integrity of their flight-sensitive environment.

www.dji.com

Under ideal conditions, the system can monitor a range of up to 50 km and obtain key information from drones in as fast as 2 seconds.

How is that a bad thing??!
Yes any illegal or possibly terrorist activity needs to be tracked and investigated for public safety. You may know you are not a threat but how do you know the next one flying in a restricted airspace where you are walking on the ground is not?
I honestly can’t understand your point... it’s like you are advocating for unchecked free path for trucks right into the White House or congress building just because “truck owners should be allowed to drive their trucks wherever they want”!

 

[Horus303]

Consider filing a public records request to your city police department asking for:

1. Any record of contact between the (city PD) with (your name) on (date) at (location).

2. Any complaint received by the city or city PD relating to (your name) or the operation of any UAV in city limits on (date) or in the vicinity of (location).

3. Any record of any agreement between the city and any third party regarding the sale, rental or use of an Aeroscope or any other drone or UAV detection device.

4. Any record showing use of city funds to purchase, rent or use any drone or UAV detection device in city limits.

These public records requests can often be made online and often cost nothing. Yet, big penalties for public entity who wrongfully ignores or fails to respond.

Yes but then they may be forced to push charges if he really was flying in a TFR zone!

 

[old man mavic]

dear OP ,look you made a mistake and flew when you should not have,and you got found out, so just own it ,and move on,what's done is done it,s called life

 

[Horus303]

dear OP ,look you made a mistake and flew when you should not have,and you got found out, so just own it ,and move on,what's done is done it,s called life

And if I may add: don’t do it again!
The answer is NOT “find a way so you won’t get caught next time”!!