Privledge not a right

[Chip]

Did you hear about the helicopter that crashed into the east river in NYC last week on a "sightseeing tour?" As near as I can tell, no drone was involved. Its surprising to me that these commercial pilots are allowed to fly their helicopters all over the place endangering so many people for private profit. I read this tour company has been involved in three prior crashes, one of which killed nine people. The "chief pilot" of the tour company and the person in charge of aircraft safety spent 8 years in prison for putting a pillow case over a woman's head and stabbing her with a knife while under the influence of cocaine back in the 80s. Maybe its time to put a moratorium on recreational flying of all aircraft?

 

[Qoncussion]

Can anyone help me? I lost my drone in my neighborhood and am looking to see if another pilot is willing to do a flight search

Start a new thread, post your logs and help will be forthcoming.

 

[Heidelburger]

For anyone who's still interested about discussing this and learning about proposed regulations for Europe, I've just found this link from the conference I mentioned earlier. I haven't had time to read it all yet. This is simply an insight as to what is coming.
Opinion 01/2018: Unmanned aircraft system (UAS) operations in the ‘open’ and ‘specific’ categories | EASA
and also here
EASA Publish their Technical Opinion and Draft Regulations for Unmanned Aircraft
I'm copying these links over to the Rules and Regs forum section simply to inform

 

[Heidelburger]

I as well welcome good regulation

Classic Flyer - You started a great thread here and I can tell you fully understand the issue. I've just noticed that I questioned the word Privilege on a previous comment. Not a criticism of you in any way, its just that I don't think some people fully understand the meaning of the word. Keep up the good work here.

 

[Heidelburger]

I'm just curious if you are required to register your drones there

More info I've just read states that by the Summer 2018 European legislation will require mandatory registration, not of every craft, but of every pilot - interesting!

 

[Kevjones777]

The topic of drone legislation will continue to be a topic of debate. The extent of the legislation has to get more and more onerous over time unfortunately. I do see a chance of drones for hobby use getting permanently banned or restricted to fly in some sort of drone park. The sad reality is for every 10 pilots out there who are obeying the laws there are probably more than double those either intentionally disobeying the laws or are not even aware of the country laws. I see a constant stream of videos on You Tube showing range tests for example. This type of flying is totally illegal in my country. In South Africa you have to imagine a cylinder over your property extending from your property borders going up in the air directly over your property to the allowable height. You may only fly within this cylinder for example. Be that as it may you have to look at the “drone problem” with two perspectives.

Firstly you have the pilot who bought their drone with the purpose of doing something with it specifically, for example, photography, racing, treasure hunting, exploring or whatever. Within this group there are those that obey the various laws and those that don’t, as in any group. I would generalize here but would offer that most in this group would be capable pilots else their hobby would be relatively short lived.


Secondly, and this is the group that worries me as pertains to stricter legislation, this is the recreational pilot who wants a drone because it's just so cool. This group neither wants to or needs a purpose they just want to "have fun". Within this group are the videos of untrained pilots crashing into neighbor’s houses, trees, flying over busy roadways, losing aircraft, and often pilots who just want to be “on the edge” without any regard for the rules. These are the people that are driving the legislators back to the drawing boards. The reality facing the drone pilots is that drones are perceived as an invasion of privacy, because they can “see” over a wall, they are seen as dangerous because they can crash on your head, they are seen as able to cause vehicle accidents, bring down jet liners, they are noisy and invasive. Ask yourself, how annoyed would you be to wake up on a Sunday morning to see a drone hovering outside your bedroom window taking 4k video of you and your wife getting dressed. Or having a birthday party at home and sitting 100ft above your home is Dennis The Menace next door neighbor’s 8 year old with a Phantom above your home. At what point, at that height, do you begin to distinguish between a neighbor’s recreational drone and a police drone. What happens if the 8 year old hands the control to his 4 year old sister or his dad, heaven forbid, (these days the 8 year olds were born with a computer control in their hands) us dads learned the expensive way.


In my humble opinion, legislation is unfortunately going to be forced on us mainly due to irresponsible actions buy some pilots. These actions and mishaps do nothing but highlight and exasperate the perceived drone problem. We all know that legislators sometimes have very little experience in the things they are legislating on. Were I forced to legislate on this subject without having any knowledge of actually flying these things I would probably over react as well. So expect tougher legislation, stricter local laws, red tape and onerous requirements, like licensing to grow and grow until this hobby no longer becomes fun. Self-censorship, self-awareness, self-discipline is the only way we could slow this process, however we all know that this will never happen. Too much is driven by ego, drones cost nothing these days and a fear of crashing is much lower than it used to be, some are driven by “bragging rights” and others driven by stupidity or a sense of the Nike syndrome “just do it” and bugger the consequences and some are just totally unaware. The current status quo will not remain that is for sure.


In summary, go have fun while you can, try fly responsibly, no one really cares how high you can go, how fast you can go or how far you can go until you crash, then everyone cares including the authorities.

 

[Heidelburger]

If everybody understood your superb summary we wouldn't have a problem. Sadly opposing thumbs is the entry level requirement to fly these days

 

[Chip]

In South Africa you have to imagine a cylinder over your property extending from your property borders going up in the air directly over your property to the allowable height. You may only fly within this cylinder for example.

Are you sure about this? That SA law restricts drone flight to airspace over your own property? If so, to what height?

 

[Kevjones777]

In South Africa you have to imagine a cylinder over your property extending from your property borders going up in the air directly over your property to the allowable height. You may only fly within this cylinder for example.

Are you sure about this? That SA law restricts drone flight to airspace over your own property? If so, to what height?

Yes - the biggest conflicting rule is the 50m from your neighbours property when in fact you are allowed to fly it in your own property.


Definitions:

"Remotely piloted aircraft" (RPAS) means an unmanned aircraft which is piloted from a remote pilot station, excluding model aircraft and toy aircraft.

"Toy aircraft" means a product falling under the definition of aircraft which is designed or intended for use in play by children.

"Model aircraft" means a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere and used exclusively for air display, recreational use, sport or competitions.


Acceptable uses of RPAS

For private use –

(a) The RPAS may only be used for an individual's personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;

(b) The pilot must observe all statutory requirements relating to liability, privacy and any other laws enforceable by any other authorities.

For all other use –

(a) an RPA must be registered and may only be operated in terms of Part 101 of the South African Civil Aviation Regulations.


Dangers of negligent operation of an RPA:

Collision with other aircraft, with possible fatal results

(a) Collision with other aircraft, with possible fatal results

(b) Injury to the public

(c) Damage to people's property

(d) Legal liability for breaking laws such as privacy by-laws and other laws enforceable by other authorities.


Do's and Don'ts

DON'TS

DO NOT, through act or omission, endanger the safety of another aircraft or person therein or any person or property through negligent flying/operation of Remotely Piloted Aircraft, or toy aircraft.

Do not fly/operate Remotely Piloted Aircraft, or toy aircraft 50 m or closer from:

1. Any person or group of persons (like sports field, road races, schools, social events, etc.)
2. Any property without permission from the property owner.

Unless approved by the SACAA, DO NOT fly/operate Remotely Piloted Aircraft or toy aircraft:

1. Near manned aircraft
2. 10 km or closer to an aerodrome (airport, helipad, airfield)
3. Weighing more than 7 kg
4. In controlled airspace
5. In restricted airspace
6. In prohibited airspace.

Do not fly/operate Remotely Piloted Aircraft, or toy aircraft higher than 150 ft from the ground, unless approved by the Director of Civil Aviation of the SACAA.



DO'S

1. Fly/operate Remotely Piloted Aircraft, or toy aircraft in a safe manner, at all times.
2. Remotely Piloted Aircraft or toy aircraft should remain within the visual line of sight at all times.
3. Fly/operate RPA in daylight and clear weather conditions.
4. Inspect your aircraft before each flight.

NOTE: The Director of Civil Aviation has designated an external organisation to oversee the operations of recreational aviation.

For more information on the operation of model aircraft, please contact the South African Model Aircraft Association (SAAMA), www.samaa.org.za.

 

[Chip]

Yes - the biggest conflicting rule is the 50m from your neighbours property when in fact you are allowed to fly it in your own property.../QUOTE]

KevJ, I can see now why you are upset. That is one messed up mishmash of a drone law.

 

[787steve]

i fly weekly for a client located 500' from the end of the runway at a regional airport. i am in a 0' NFZ. i call the tower, schedule my flight, do my business, call again & tell them i'm on the ground & go home. easy-peasy. with updated dji firmware, it's a gothic PITA.

i bought it, let me fly it. if i speed in my car, i can get a ticket. ford doesn't keep me from going 90 mph.

There is a significant difference between max performing a Ford and max performing a drone. If one max performs his car, he may be fined, may endanger a vehicle of considerable cost, may endanger others, and may place his own life in jeopardy. That seems to be sufficient for most people to self regulate.
If one max performs their drone, they probably will not be fined, the vehicle is an acceptable loss, and their life is not in danger. The biggest issue is endangering others, and as many posts on this board show, for some, that is not an issue. Sad, but true.

 

[787steve]

At the risk of straying too far into the weeds (but then it's your thread, so I suppose I'm OK ): to be opposed to government regulation is not necessarily to be opposed to regulation in general, or to holding people accountable for their actions. You are correct that without "some kind of law and regulation," life would be quite unpleasant. The good news is that most people don't want to hurt others, if for no other reason than they know they will be shunned by their neighbors and thus forced into a life of isolation and relative poverty. If a vast number of people wanted to kill, assault and steal, they would be doing it right now to their hearts' content, because despite all its bluster, government does a pathetic job of keeping us safe. If someone really means to do you immediate harm, the government will never be there to protect you. Never.

The government does a pathetic job of keeping us safe?? Somehow, you don't strike me as the sort who would want the government to follow your every step in order to keep you safe. I'm sure I don't. And I seldom feel that I am in an unsafe condition as I go through my day.

 

[Classic flyer]

Classic Flyer - You started a great thread here and I can tell you fully understand the issue. I've just noticed that I questioned the word Privilege on a previous comment. Not a criticism of you in any way, its just that I don't think some people fully understand the meaning of the word. Keep up the good work here.

Thank you sir ...that's exactly the type of response I was hoping for

 

[Classic flyer]

When I started this thread I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on the issue...I would like to thank every one that replied for your opinion on the subject...it was far more interesting than I thought it would be ...again Thanx for your input