Question for experienced drone pilots in Canada...

[shadow3467]

I just got my basic certificate allowing me to fly above 250g

I ordered 1 single battery plus for the mini 3

80% of the time I will be flying below 250g but sometimes above, do I need to register the drone still? Even though a majority of the time it will be below 250g?

 

[Crash Gibby]

I just got my basic certificate allowing me to fly above 250g

I ordered 1 single battery plus for the mini 3

80% of the time I will be flying below 250g but sometimes above, do I need to register the drone still? Even though a majority of the time it will be below 250g?

Good Question for Don Joyce at "The Drone Pilots association . of Canada"
Off hand if its over 250G it should be registered. Fines in Canada for not been registered and not having a certificate are very steep for 250+ drones.

 

[Ken-Mav-Mtl]

Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? Even by 1 mph or even one km/hr?
If so, you violated the law and are subject to the penalties that apply.
Do police tolerate speeding? In reality, they have to enforce the law. But with many speeders, the practical thing to do is to focus on the most obvious violators. Ticket the person who is 20% over the limit instead of those only 2% over the limit.
If you apply this to drone law, a drone that is under 250g but may go over that limit due to a strobe, or prop guards, or even a larger battery, it is highly unlikely that you will end up on the wrong side of the law.
Every activity has its risks and rewards. Having a realistic outlook on the risks of flying a sub-250 gram drone that is slightly over the limit is a risk many will take.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? Even by 1 mph or even one km/hr?
If so, you violated the law and are subject to the penalties that apply.
Do police tolerate speeding? In reality, they have to enforce the law. But with many speeders, the practical thing to do is to focus on the most obvious violators. Ticket the person who is 20% over the limit instead of those only 2% over the limit.
If you apply this to drone law, a drone that is under 250g but may go over that limit due to a strobe, or prop guards, or even a larger battery, it is highly unlikely that you will end up on the wrong side of the law.
Every activity has its risks and rewards. Having a realistic outlook on the risks of flying a sub-250 gram drone that is slightly over the limit is a risk many will take.

The fine is up to $1,000 in Canada for an unregistered drone for individuals and $5,000 if you're flying for a corporation. It's up to another $1,000 if you don't have a drone pilot certificate. If they decide your unregistered drone put people at risk, they can add another $3,000 to that. It costs $5 and 2 minutes of your time to register a drone and does not affect your flight in any way. If you are knowingly going to be flying above 250g it would be rather silly to not just register it. Law enforcement isn't stupid and can easily see that you would have had to purchase the heavier battery separately, and it's not like it makes the drone 251g where you could argue something like sample variation. DJI even labels the lighter batteries "249g". The drone is around 300g with the larger battery which is quite noticeable and by your own definition an "obvious violation" at ~20% above the limit.

Someone in Ontario was recently fined $2,500 for flying unregistered, without a pilot certificate, and within 100m of people.

A realistic outlook would include a cost/benefit analysis and in this case I think it's pretty obvious what makes the most sense. Police aren't just looking for the worst offenders or nobody except Matrice/Inspire owners would bother registering their drones.

The people who think that they can pick and choose what rules to follow are the reason why drone laws are as restrictive as they are currently and it's only going to get worse. Just register the drone, it's so easy and not worth the risk/hassle if you get caught.

 

[Ken-Mav-Mtl]

I agree with CanadaDrone that flying with the larger battery adds significant additional weight to the Mini 3 to require registration if used with said battery.

It adds approx. 40 grams (not 50 as he mentioned) and it clearly requires the respect of current regulations. We don't get to pick and chose what regulations should apply.

That said, there are practical realities to consider.

Equip every car with a violation monitor when the car exceeds the posted limit by 1 km/hr, and a way for police to issue a citation for every violation, and we might be able to do away with other forms of raising public funds besides taxation.

Same could be said for drones. Fine everyone who takes off at 251 grams. Theoretical, but not practical.

One of the main reasons I acquired a sub-250 gram drone was to be able to legally fly in Class C airspace, which usually represents large metropolitan areas served by major airports. Which also means that you should not be flying 290 - 300 gram drones in Class C airspace.

Is it practical to apply this to a drone that weighs 251 grams? Question of conscience?

 

[CanadaDrone]

It adds approx. 40 grams (not 50 as he mentioned) and it clearly requires the respect of current regulations. We don't get to pick and chose what regulations should apply.

Well what I said it was "around" 300g as well as the universal symbol for approximate (~) because I didn't look up the exact weight but I know it's close to 300g. I looked it up now and DJI's own specifications say "about" 290g, so there is obviously some room for variance, but they don't say how much. At any rate, even at exactly 290g it's 16.5% heavier which is well beyond any kind of arguable sample variation or claim of ignorance.

Equip every car with a violation monitor when the car exceeds the posted limit by 1 km/hr, and a way for police to issue a citation for every violation, and we might be able to do away with other forms of raising public funds besides taxation.

The speed limit analogy only works if you also had the option to pay a completely insignificant one-time fee to avoid speeding violations altogether within the vehicle's own limits, which is exactly how it works with regards to drone takeoff weight. Both scenarios rely primarily on in-person enforcement that will never be perfect, and you would very likely get away with being 1g over the limit just as you would 1km/h over the speed limit. In either case, it would be clear that the individual was making every reasonable effort to follow the rules, which is almost always satisfactory to law enforcement. If you set your cruise control to 120km/h in a 100km/h zone, you remove all doubt and will very likely get a ticket if you drive through a speed trap - just like if you went out and bought yourself a heavier battery, you aren't going to be able to convince anyone you were trying to follow the rules.

Same could be said for drones. Fine everyone who takes off at 251 grams. Theoretical, but not practical.

One of the main reasons I acquired a sub-250 gram drone was to be able to legally fly in Class C airspace, which usually represents large metropolitan areas served by major airports. Which also means that you should not be flying 290 - 300 gram drones in Class C airspace.

Is it practical to apply this to a drone that weighs 251 grams? Question of conscience?

I see your point, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and there has to be a clear, measurable limit in place should there ever be a dispute in court or similar. At 251g, I would agree that you could successfully argue something like sample variation or manufacturing inconsistencies. But where does it stop? 255g? 260g? 270g? The whole reason for rules like that is to remove any ambiguity, and in this case with the larger battery, the user is intentionally and knowingly increasing the takeoff weight of their drone way above the limit. If you used a label maker to put the registration number on your drone and it added 1g, would you get a ticket for that? I doubt it.

Airspace rules are also generally more strict just due to the higher potential consequences. I wish the weight limits were higher as well, but now with the M3P we finally have an enthusiast grade-drone that fits within those limits which is great.

All it comes down to at the end of the day is don't knowingly break the rules if you don't want to get fined, and don't knowingly break the rules if you unless you want to make drone laws tighter than they already are for everyone. I find that most people are responsible flyers, but unfortunately like most things in life, it only takes 1 or 2 serious incidents before major regulation changes happen that really just end up punishing the responsible flyers.

 

[saltydrone]

To answer your question, yes you have to register if the drone is 250g or above. For the mini 3 that means if you add a strobe, landing gear, prop guard, or the Plus battery. Registration is easy and cheap. I registered mine right away, as I sometimes add a strobe or the larger battery.

 

[shadow3467]

To answer your question, yes you have to register if the drone is 250g or above. For the mini 3 that means if you add a strobe, landing gear, prop guard, or the Plus battery. Registration is easy and cheap. I registered mine right away, as I sometimes add a strobe or the larger battery.

Where in Canada are you?

I'm questioning if its even worth it because with a drone above 250g you cant even fly in half of Toronto

 

[NutHouseDrone]

I wouldn't be worried about fines as much as I would be worried about insurance coverage. How likely is it that your insurance company will cover damages if you are found to have a 290g drone(meaning you are violating Transport Canada regulations) after it crashes into someone?
Even if you get a license and register it for being over 250g, your basic insurance policy may be excluding drones over 250g anyway. You may not get any fines, but you may still have to pay all of the damages you cause if you crash.

 

[shadow3467]

I wouldn't be worried about fines as much as I would be worried about insurance coverage. How likely is it that your insurance company will cover damages if you are found to have a 290g drone(meaning you are violating Transport Canada regulations) after it crashes into someone?
Even if you get a license and register it for being over 250g, your basic insurance policy may be excluding drones over 250g anyway. You may not get any fines, but you may still have to pay all of the damages you cause if you crash.

Would that not have the same effect on sub 250g?

 

[NutHouseDrone]

Would that not have the same effect on sub 250g?

Depends on your insurance policy. Mine already covered sub 250g by default without needing to change anything with the policy. I would guess that is common in Canada with how sub 250 are (not)regulated. But once I go over 250 (even with a license and registration) or violate Transport Canada regulations or using it for commercial purposes, I am not guaranteed coverage with my current policy.

 

[Zbip57]

Equip every car with a violation monitor when the car exceeds the posted limit by 1 km/hr, and a way for police to issue a citation for every violation, and we might be able to do away with other forms of raising public funds besides taxation.

I'm really surprised this hasn't been done yet. Hwy 407 across Toronto is an electronic toll hwy. They record where and when your car enters or leaves the hwy, and you are charged a toll accordingly. It would be very simple to also automatically calculate your average speed between any two points to apply speeding fines. There are highways in Europe where this already is being done.

Same could be said for drones. Fine everyone who takes off at 251 grams. Theoretical, but not practical.

But where does it stop? 255g? 260g? 270g? The whole reason for rules like that is to remove any ambiguity, [...]
Airspace rules are also generally more strict just due to the higher potential consequences.

My main beef with most of these drone regulations is that they are based only on potential consequences, with no data to support that there are any actual consequences.

Does anyone really believe a 250g any more safe than 251g? It's a totally arbitrary number upon which to base the application of all these regulations? 255g? 260g? 270g? Where does it stop?

 

[Robert Prior]

According to a Don Joyce video, Transport Canada clarified that you do not need to deregister the drone when flying below 250 g (apparently the old wording was ambiguous), just register it once and you're covered if the weight hits 250 g.

I registered my Mini 3 Pro yesterday. $5 is cheap for staying legal. I have a standard battery, two plus batteries, and two more standard batteries on the way (waiting for my preordered Fly More kit to arrive at the shop).

The only option when selecting Drone type was "DJI Mini 3 Pro *With Intelligent Flight Battery Plus". Not certain what you'd do if flying with a standard battery and (say) lights — my best guess is register as if with the plus battery and fly under basic/advanced rules.

My plan is to use the standard batteries when necessary (near home which is in a control zone, and near people), and the plus batteries for trips outside the city.

 

[Robert Prior]

Hwy 407 across Toronto is an electronic toll hwy. They record where and when your car enters or leaves the hwy, and you are charged a toll accordingly. It would be very simple to also automatically calculate your average speed between any two points to apply speeding fines.

That point was raised years ago. The company that owns it doesn't want to do that, because it will discourage drivers from using it. Make of that what you will.

 

[CanadaDrone]

My main beef with most of these drone regulations is that they are based only on potential consequences, with no data to support that there are any actual consequences.

That is the case with virtually every safety-based rule. They are in place to avoid potential consequences - that's the whole point. There is no data to suggest that I am not capable of driving 200km/h on every highway safely, and it would very likely be fine most of the time, but I'm still not allowed to do it because of potential consequences.

 

[Ken-Mav-Mtl]

Hi Zbip57. Read Robert Prior's message. Registration is cheap and keeps you legal. No downside. Fly in Class C airspace legally if over 250g. That was my reason for getting the Mini 2, then the Mini 3 Pro.

I believe that this weight category (sub-250) would have data to support the weight limit. Although not an exact science, having a limit that is easy to remember makes sense. Just like highway speed signs. I have yet to find myself in a 93 km/hr zone. Usually limits are set to round numbers or numbers that are easy to recall, such as 90 or 100 km/hr.

So I will assume that the 250 gram limit was chosen over a 300 gram limit, due to the potential energy that would be involved with a crash of a solid object against various targets, such as planes, cars and humans, the most likely potential victims of drone strikes.

Setting such limits requires both data to support it and public policy to enforce it. Education is the best method to obtain compliance. When you fly your drone, you want to feel that you are following the rules that are for everyone's benefit.

 

[CanadaDrone]

The only option when selecting Drone type was "DJI Mini 3 Pro *With Intelligent Flight Battery Plus". Not certain what you'd do if flying with a standard battery and (say) lights — my best guess is register as if with the plus battery and fly under basic/advanced rules.

If you have different modifications that bring it above 250g you can register it as a custom drone with custom parts.

 

[Robert Prior]

If you have different modifications that bring it above 250g you can register it as a custom drone with custom parts.

Well, now that I have the plus battery I might as well fly with that as well as lights (or whatever). No difference in the rules and I'm already registered.

It was the only confusing part of the registration (for me, anyway), because it didn't seem to account for adding weight to a standard drone. It's an edge case for sub-250g drones.

From a legal perspective I can kinda see a case for wanting the drone to be in one category of the other, definitely, rather than sometimes one and sometimes the other depending on what accessories you've mounted for that flight.

 

[Robert Prior]

I'm questioning if its even worth it because with a drone above 250g you cant even fly in half of Toronto

A good chunk of Scarborough is OK for flying in terms of control zones, although keeping 50 m away from people is tricky everywhere in the GTA. Richmond Hill and Markham are mostly within the control zone for Buttonville, while Pearson and Billy Bishop cover most of Toronto and Mississauga.

Lots of good places to fly within an hour's drive of the city, but you really need a car to get there.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Well, now that I have the plus battery I might as well fly with that as well as lights (or whatever). No difference in the rules and I'm already registered.

It was the only confusing part of the registration (for me, anyway), because it didn't seem to account for adding weight to a standard drone. It's an edge case for sub-250g drones.

From a legal perspective I can kinda see a case for wanting the drone to be in one category of the other, definitely, rather than sometimes one and sometimes the other depending on what accessories you've mounted for that flight.

That's right, if you are ALSO using the plus battery, then it doesn't really matter what else you've done to it as you have already taken care of the "over 250g" part

If you have the regular 249g setup and some other random modification brings it over 250g, then you can register it as a custom drone.

Up until March of this year you also were supposed to de-register your drone if it dropped below 250g, but thankfully they did away with that so it's far less hassle to own something like the M3P with different batteries now.