Questioning legality...

[Laggard]

So I was banned for three days from a Mini 2 page for questioning the legality of a flying location from where one member posted some nice photos. I was basically told to mind my own business and that questions like mine could attract the FAA.

This leads me to two observations and questions:

1. Some people really don’t give much of a (deleted by moderator) if what they are doing is safe or legal. A forum that bans any criticism of this flying can be seen as either encouraging it or just pretending nothing is going on. Today there were photos posted from a guy who managed to get his Mini 2 up to over 1000 feet. Not sure why I was banned but not this idiot.

2. There seems to be some public animosity towards drones already. All it’s going to take is some bozo to run his drone into a F-22 at 1000 feet and we’re all finished.

So, do we do things legally and mind our own business or do we call out those threatening to harm a hobby we enjoy or rely on to make a living?

 

[THE CYBORG]

The outlook of the forum is to assume people have got the correct permissions for flights.

 

[Meta4]

Some people really don’t give much of a crap if what they are doing is safe or legal. A forum that bans any criticism of this flying can be seen as either encouraging it or just pretending nothing is going on. Today there were photos posted from a guy who managed to get his Mini 2 up to over 1000 feet. Not sure why I was banned but not this idiot.

The issue is outlined in Rule 15 in the Community Rules:Community Rules

15. The Community Owners strongly encourage users to obey all federal and local laws and regulations when flying. It is a helpful service to the community when members guide others in understanding and following the regulations. Meanwhile, fully understanding all international rules and regulations is complex and it is not the responsibility of the community owners, moderators or community members to police and enforce these rules and regulations. Any violation of another community rule, even if in the context of attempting to help enforce flying laws and regulations, is prohibited. ​

​

Any further discussion on your case should be with the moderator concerned and not in a public thread.

 

[Laggard]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Severian]

Not good. We should all be willing to listen to criticism that may endanger others and harm our drone sport/businesses. BTW, I wouldn't be opposed to all drone pilots having to take the part 107 exam and qualify for certification. I did it primarily to make sure I knew the rules so that I wouldn't do something stupid. When I first got my Mini 2 I had no clue about the rules and actually violated a number of them. Going through the certification process was enormously helpful.

 

[Cw4bray]

Three days in the penalty box, that's all ? Consider yourself lucky !

 

[Laggard]

Three days in the penalty box, that's all ? Consider yourself lucky !

Lol.

 

[WobblingWillie]

Laggard, if you are really concerned about whether or not someone knows the rules, then maybe you should message them instead of putting something on a public forum.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Could it have been the language you used?
I find it surprising you would be suspended for questioning the legality of a flight, I think I do it quite often.
The justification being the pilot might truthfully be unaware of the rules.
In fact I have seen some people get quite a dressing down for really stupid illegal flights.
I certainly do not get the impression that the forum encourages illegal flying. Most of the time I would say illegal and or stupid flying is discouraged.
The above said you have to remember that different rules apply in different countries and what may be legal in one country can be illegal in another. Also bear in mind that in many countries the ceiling is above the ground directly beneath the drone, so 1000ft above the take off point could legal if the ground beneath the drone is 600 ft higher than the take off point.

 

[Laggard]

Could it have been the language you used?
I find it surprising you would be suspended for questioning the legality of a flight, I think I do it quite often.
The justification being the pilot might truthfully be unaware of the rules.
In fact I have seen some people get quite a dressing down for really stupid illegal flights.
I certainly do not get the impression that the forum encourages illegal flying. Most of the time I would say illegal and or stupid flying is discouraged.
The above said you have to remember that different rules apply in different countries and what may be legal in one country can be illegal in another. Also bear in mind that in many countries the ceiling is above the ground directly beneath the drone, so 1000ft above the take off point could legal if the ground beneath the drone is 600 ft higher than the take off point.

I wonder though if allowing videos to be posted of clearly illegal flying is not tacit approval of said flying. It’s not hard to tell what’s illegal. A video of a drone being flown being flown a mile along the US gulf coast is a clear line of sight violation yet nothing can be said publicly of it? It gives the impression to newbies that this behavior is ok.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

I understand and agree with your sentiments but would question that one is not permitted to question a flight. That is not my experience of this forum.

 

[Meta4]

I wonder though if allowing videos to be posted of clearly illegal flying is not tacit approval of said flying. It’s not hard to tell what’s illegal. A video of a drone being flown being flown a mile along the US gulf coast is a clear line of sight violation yet nothing can be said publicly of it? It gives the impression to newbies that this behavior is ok.

If you want to keep going with this, you should read the rules.
Take note of #9.

9. Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material. ​

If you really think a moderator misapplied the rules, take it up with him, don't hash it out here.

You can make relevant comments on what someone posts, but do it within the rules.

And you are fooling yourself if you think you can eliminate bad flying by nagging everyone that you think might be infringing some rules.
Nagging posts telling everyone how illegal you think their actions were get very annoying, very quickly.

 

[Laggard]

If you want to keep going with this, you should read the riles.
Take note of #9.

9. Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material. ​

If you really think a moderator misapplied the rules, take it up with him, don't hash it out here.

You can make relevant comments on what someone posts, but do it within the rules.

And you are fooling yourself if you think you can eliminate bad flying by nagging everyone that you think might be infringing some rules.
Nagging posts telling everyone how illegal you think their actions were get very annoying, very quickly.

This was meant to be a discussion of if illegal flying should be called out in any forum. I had no issues with any moderaters here though I will end this discussion by stating I hate when any mod feels they are gods and above public reproach.

Thanks for this venue and your hard work. Please close this thread.

 

[baristabob]

I wonder though if allowing videos to be posted of clearly illegal flying is not tacit approval of said flying. It’s not hard to tell what’s illegal. A video of a drone being flown being flown a mile along the US gulf coast is a clear line of sight violation yet nothing can be said publicly of it? It gives the impression to newbies that this behavior is ok.

While I can agree with your sentiments, your example could be incorrect in assuming VLOS violation. A pilot can use spotters as long as they are in communication with each other.

 

[Dale D]

Not good. We should all be willing to listen to criticism that may endanger others and harm our drone sport/businesses. BTW, I wouldn't be opposed to all drone pilots having to take the part 107 exam and qualify for certification. I did it primarily to make sure I knew the rules so that I wouldn't do something stupid. When I first got my Mini 2 I had no clue about the rules and actually violated a number of them. Going through the certification process was enormously helpful.

No 107 for me! Speak for thyself! Have been flying as a hobbyist for 3 years and happy. After 20 years of education (I'm an M.D.) I never want to study for or take another examination.

 

[Stealth01]

No 107 for me! Speak for thyself! Have been flying as a hobbyist for 3 years and happy. After 20 years of education (I'm an M.D.) I never want to study for or take another examination.

Dale,
You did hear that an FAA “Recreational Flyer” test is coming??

 

[BrokenAero]

No 107 for me! Speak for thyself! Have been flying as a hobbyist for 3 years and happy. After 20 years of education (I'm an M.D.) I never want to study for or take another examination.

Uh-oh . . . Hate to ruin your day, but get ready for June 1st. TRUST (The Recreational UAS Safety Test) is coming soon. It’s expected to be short and free.

 

[Vic Moss]

While I can agree with your sentiments, your example could be incorrect in assuming VLOS violation. A pilot can use spotters as long as they are in communication with each other.

Actually, daisy chain VOs (the official term) are not allowed by the FAA unless specifically mentioned in a 107.31 waiver.

It's a misconception held by many, and even some in the FAA get that wrong. I had to correct a FSDO person after he gave an educational session that mentioned it was allowed.

 

[Lets Fly]

While I can agree with your sentiments, your example could be incorrect in assuming VLOS violation. A pilot can use spotters as long as they are in communication with each other.

This is true, but BVLOS is not an FAA infraction unless something happens to make it one. You can not be fined for flying BVLOS. Should we do it, no, but most at some time will.

 

[Lets Fly]

Uh-oh . . . Hate to ruin your day, but get ready for June 1st. TRUST (The Recreational UAS Safety Test) is coming soon. It’s expected to be short and free.

I don't need a 107 to understand the rules and have been flying for years without an incident or crash, but short and free would be fine.