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Real framerate and smooth video

mrlegroa

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Hey guys,

I am new to this forum and hope its okay to just open a threat (i could not find anything else)


My Setup:
Mavic Pro 2 (newest Firmware)
Polar Pro ND & PL Filters (8,16,32)
DGI Go app (newest Version)
Lumafusion on iPad Pro (2018)

Currently, I am dealing with two issues:
  1. Jittery Video.
    • I film on H265 and 24 frames, Iso 100 and 1/50, using ND filters depending on the weather and try to keep the aperture as high as possible.
    • Should I switch to 30 frames? Maybe H264? Change the shutter speed?
  2. Lumafusion identifies the footage as 23.98 frames instead of 24. Is that correct or is my app wrong?
Here is a video for reference: Sample Footage Wburg Bridge


Looking forward to your replies.
 
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CanadaDrone

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The footage doesn't look that bad to me. Your frame rate and shutter speed are normal. You can increase the gimbal smoothness too if you like.

Make sure you're using at least a "U3" rated memory card to prevent dropped frames.
 
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mrlegroa

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thanks! guys
@Zyze, I always do framerate x2 for the shutter speed

@CanadaDrone, I'm using a SanDisk Xtreme Pro (its rated u3)

@afarkas, I know, I figured it might be relevant for the export after color grading in Lumafusion.
 

Corthan

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Hi mrlagroa,

I shoot exclusively in H265, that's not the problem, unless the card isn't really U3 rated. Lots of fake cards around.

When panning and tilting, you you have to move pretty slowly. A really fast pan or tilt can be jumpy even at 60 fps. For most purposes, shooting at 30 fps will be better than 24. I know that all the cinemafiles will say 30 doesn't look filmic but unless you're wanting to cut the drone footage in with something else shot at 24 fps, 30 will serve you better, especially when there is a lot of movement. And a lot of drone footage has a fair bit of movement. The clip you supplied looks like it was shot at 24 fps and rendered at 30 fps. The movement of the cars doesn't look natural. It all looks a bit timelapse like. If that't the case, you can't avoid jitter.

When panning (pivoting camera side to side), a good rule to follow is that any point in the scene should take about 6 or 7 seconds to cross the frame at 30 fps. If shooting at 24 fps, another second or two will help smooth things out. If tilting (pivoting camera up and down) you have to allow around 3 or 4 seconds for an object to pass through the frame since the frame isn't as tall as it is wide. Also, panning with the Mavic 2 Pro seems to be a bit jittery anyway when using the left stick to pivot the drone. I often go for 8 or 9 seconds across the frame to smooth things out a little more. You can pan by using the gimbal alone, which is a little more smooth in my experience. You do that by touching the screen of your phone or tablet in the centre and then moving it left or right. You can also move up and down. I find I get a bit smoother shot this way when panning but no difference tilting. It's also hard to do when flying. As someone mentioned above, you can slow your gimbal down in the settings. I've got mine about as slow as it goes (not quite) and that's working well for me for the kind of nature and landscape stuff I like to film. Your first tilt didn't look too fast, that's probably the just the limitation of 24 fps. The second tilt, especially from the midway point on, is too fast.

Shutter speed has also been discussed above. The times 2 rule is a good one but should be broken sometimes. For example, if you shoot at 1/30th instead of 1/60th as the rule dictates, you will get more motion blur, which will hide some of that jitter. It's not a look I particularly like but others do. Faster shutter speeds can make things like waterfalls or the sea shore look more dramatic as long as there is not too much camera motion, or that camera motion is really smooth and slow.

Hope that helps.
 

mrlegroa

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Hi mrlagroa,

I shoot exclusively in H265, that's not the problem, unless the card isn't really U3 rated. Lots of fake cards around.

When panning and tilting, you you have to move pretty slowly. A really fast pan or tilt can be jumpy even at 60 fps. For most purposes, shooting at 30 fps will be better than 24. I know that all the cinemafiles will say 30 doesn't look filmic but unless you're wanting to cut the drone footage in with something else shot at 24 fps, 30 will serve you better, especially when there is a lot of movement. And a lot of drone footage has a fair bit of movement. The clip you supplied looks like it was shot at 24 fps and rendered at 30 fps. The movement of the cars doesn't look natural. It all looks a bit timelapse like. If that't the case, you can't avoid jitter.

When panning (pivoting camera side to side), a good rule to follow is that any point in the scene should take about 6 or 7 seconds to cross the frame at 30 fps. If shooting at 24 fps, another second or two will help smooth things out. If tilting (pivoting camera up and down) you have to allow around 3 or 4 seconds for an object to pass through the frame since the frame isn't as tall as it is wide. Also, panning with the Mavic 2 Pro seems to be a bit jittery anyway when using the left stick to pivot the drone. I often go for 8 or 9 seconds across the frame to smooth things out a little more. You can pan by using the gimbal alone, which is a little more smooth in my experience. You do that by touching the screen of your phone or tablet in the centre and then moving it left or right. You can also move up and down. I find I get a bit smoother shot this way when panning but no difference tilting. It's also hard to do when flying. As someone mentioned above, you can slow your gimbal down in the settings. I've got mine about as slow as it goes (not quite) and that's working well for me for the kind of nature and landscape stuff I like to film. Your first tilt didn't look too fast, that's probably the just the limitation of 24 fps. The second tilt, especially from the midway point on, is too fast.

Shutter speed has also been discussed above. The times 2 rule is a good one but should be broken sometimes. For example, if you shoot at 1/30th instead of 1/60th as the rule dictates, you will get more motion blur, which will hide some of that jitter. It's not a look I particularly like but others do. Faster shutter speeds can make things like waterfalls or the sea shore look more dramatic as long as there is not too much camera motion, or that camera motion is really smooth and slow.

Hope that helps.
Thanks alot, that is very helpful.
It was shot in 24 and lumafusion suggested 23.98 for the output file.
Also, the footage is at 1.5x speed, might be of relevance
 

alanwa007

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Unfortunately I have an older computer and I can’t shoot anything other than to 264 when I try to 265 it’s just too choppy, it’s a shame that I have the ability to shoot all these great pictures at 265 and don’t have the resources on my computer graphic card to run it. Good luck
 

brett8883

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That’s correct. I just wrote out an essay on why it’s correct but realized I would bore you to death. For technical reasons to conform to the NTSC standard which is broadcast here in North America based originally on interlaced video we now wind out with this weird system and anyway that’s correct.

It’s actually 23.976 frames per second but your computer is rounding up.

Yes switching to 30(29.976) or 60 frames per second will help.
 
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mrlegroa

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Thanks @brett8883.

So, true 24p will only be available in PAL?
Not sure if this is actually relevant for my jitter problem - but since I only use my footage for personal projects without any intention to broadcast on linear tv or such. Do I actually need to use NTSC?
 

fellersk

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Hi Mr. Legroa,

The video above by Filmmaker IQ is a fantastic explanation of the history of framerates. It may be a little geeky for some, but if you appreciate clear understanding, then this is the video for you.

The framerate choices we have with us today have mathematical roots that go back to the origin of broadcast television, which then had to accomodate the introduction of sound and color.

23.976 and 29.976 frames per second are set at those rates for technical reasons.

It's a fascinating video. Enjoy.
 

kilomikebravo

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fellersk: Many thanks for that link and I agree wholeheartedly, a VERY well done, interesting, and informative video. I subscribed. :)
 

DebianDog

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I knew most of that but it was nice seeing it explained in detail.

I remember a television guy telling me if it were not for Sony no one would be shooting in interlaced format these days. It really should go.
 

Drbobk

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Hi Mr. Legroa,

The video above by Filmmaker IQ is a fantastic explanation of the history of framerates. It may be a little geeky for some, but if you appreciate clear understanding, then this is the video for you.

The framerate choices we have with us today have mathematical roots that go back to the origin of broadcast television, which then had to accomodate the introduction of sound and color.

23.976 and 29.976 frames per second are set at those rates for technical reasons.

It's a fascinating video. Enjoy.
The video is fascinating! I really enjoyed it, both because of my engineering roots and helping understand for drone footage. I also subscribed. Thanks.
 
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Harro

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Your monitors and TV (in the States) are 60p, 24 does not divide nicely into 60 so you get that jittery look. 30 does divide into 60 nicely so the motion is much smoother. 24p and 25p are close so motion is much smoother.
 
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kilomikebravo

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Harro: I must disagree. Up to this point, I have always used 24p and have played back the H.265-rendered H.264 native .MP4 files on two large 4k TV's and they play perfectly with absolutely no artifacts. If what you mentioned was true, virtually every film produced for television or the theater is shot at 24p and we'd all be seeing the issues you stated but, we're not.
 

Kilrah

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The TV switches to 24p when you play a 24p file. A computer does not, so unless you do it manually it will be resampled and stuttery.
 
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kilomikebravo

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Kilrah: I get the auto switch to 24p for TV's but not sure what you meant about a computer not doing so. My 24p rendered clips play fine on my PC's two LG 4K 60hz displays. Should they not?
 

Kilrah

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Well how much it's visible depends on the content, and also some people are much more sensitive to the irregularities than others.

For me in OP's clip for example in the first shot since there is little movement it's not apparent, but the 2nd bit where he tilts up and everything moves it is visibly irregular.

But he also sped up the footage, and that's playing a role...
 
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