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SAR group?

Esel Jaye

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Now that I have my own Mavic Pro, albeit used, once again I'm thinking of forming a SAR group in the Chicago/N. Illinois area.
Or is there already one?
Essentially a group of volunteer UAV pilots willing to assist in search and rescue operations with local FD/PD.
Any like minded folks?
 
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Classic flyer

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Now that I have my own Mavic Pro, albeit used, once again I'm thinking of forming a SAR group in the Chicago/N. Illinois area.
Or is there already one?
Essentially a group of volunteer UAV pilots willing to assist in search and rescue operations with local FD/PD.
Any like minded folks?
I think starting an organization like that might actually help promote a better image for the drone community...good luck and thanx for thinking outside of the box...be safe, fly smart
 
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sar104

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Now that I have my own Mavic Pro, albeit used, once again I'm thinking of forming a SAR group in the Chicago/N. Illinois area.
Or is there already one?
Essentially a group of volunteer UAV pilots willing to assist in search and rescue operations with local FD/PD.
Any like minded folks?
That's a fine idea, but bear in mind that the FAA regards all search and rescue activities as non-recreational, and requires pilots to be Part 107 certified.
 

sar104

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Studying for the 107 and I would hope all interested would either have or willing to get.
Thanks
Sounds good. There has been a lot of grumbling in SAR groups around the country about that requirement due to the volunteer nature of the work, so I bet you will hear some of that, but those that care enough will get certified.
 

Esel Jaye

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Sounds good. There has been a lot of grumbling in SAR groups around the country about that requirement due to the volunteer nature of the work, so I bet you will hear some of that, but those that care enough will get certified.
Thing is getting certified is a good way to protect oneself from the ...less than happy non pilots
 

Aussie Oldtimer

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Drones are currently being used here in Qld Aust searching for a camper who has gone missing
 

Esel Jaye

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Good on ya mate. Hope the result is a find and he's ok.
 

ac0j

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Seems odd that even when it’s down to life or death the FAA wants their $150 more than the location of the victim.
I guess if you don’t know how to read weather reports typed out in airport cryptography and how to balance a load in you aircraft you have no business trying to save a life. Too much risk of a dented piper or Cessna aircraft wing to merit the effort I guess.
 

sar104

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Seems odd that even when it’s down to life or death the FAA wants their $150 more than the location of the victim.
I guess if you don’t know how to read weather reports typed out in airport cryptography and how to balance a load in you aircraft you have no business trying to save a life. Too much risk of a dented piper or Cessna aircraft wing to merit the effort I guess.
You really do need both to know what you are doing and coordinate with ICS. There are very likely to be other aerial resources deployed, and quite possibly a TFR in place. And aside from that, good intentions are not enough to justify simply ignoring the law.
 

ac0j

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You really do need both to know what you are doing and coordinate with ICS. There are very likely to be other aerial resources deployed, and quite possibly a TFR in place. And aside from that, good intentions are not enough to justify simply ignoring the law.
To clarify, we are talking about pigeon size remote control toys, and how they could cause death and destruction when they are in the sky with a non 107 pilot at the controls. LOL!
I understand people being proud that they have jumped through the BS hoops to be labeled a "professional" but lets not try to lead anyone to believe that the drones are more of a danger than the actual helicopters that would be flying around at low altitudes.
 
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sar104

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To clarify, we are talking about pigeon size remote control toys, and how they could cause death and destruction when they are in the sky with a non 107 pilot at the controls. LOL!
I understand people being proud that they have jumped through the BS hoops to be labeled a "professional" but lets not try to lead anyone to believe that the drones are more of a danger than the actual helicopters that would be flying around at low altitudes.
To clarify, we are talking about a mix of volunteer and professional personnel conducting what are often high-risk operations in difficult conditions and terrain. We make use of numerous aerial resources, including LE helicopters, National Guard helicopters, Civil Air Patrol aircraft and medical evacuation helicopters. With the exception of CAP they operate at low altitude AGL and put their lives on the line for missing or injured subjects. We often put up TFRs requiring clearance, and, in many cases, the manned aircraft won't even fly if we don't have complete control over sUAS resources.

So, as usual, you have missed the point. What we don't need is a bunch of drone operators with your attitude flying their "toys", as you like to call them, in airspace that they don't understand. As in other emergency operations, such as fire-fighting, it is primarily the threat that they pose to other aircraft, not to people on the ground, that is of most concern.
 

Classic flyer

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To clarify, we are talking about a mix of volunteer and professional personnel conducting what are often high-risk operations in difficult conditions and terrain. We make use of numerous aerial resources, including LE helicopters, National Guard helicopters, Civil Air Patrol aircraft and medical evacuation helicopters. With the exception of CAP they operate at low altitude AGL and put their lives on the line for missing or injured subjects. We often put up TFRs requiring clearance, and, in many cases, the manned aircraft won't even fly if we don't have complete control over sUAS resources.

So, as usual, you have missed the point. What we don't need is a bunch of drone operators with your attitude flying their "toys", as you like to call them, in airspace that they don't understand. As in other emergency operations, such as fire-fighting, it is primarily the threat that they pose to other aircraft, not to people on the ground, that is of most concern.
Spot on brother...very well said and 100% correct...be safe, fly smart
 

ac0j

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To clarify, we are talking about a mix of volunteer and professional personnel conducting what are often high-risk operations in difficult conditions and terrain. We make use of numerous aerial resources, including LE helicopters, National Guard helicopters, Civil Air Patrol aircraft and medical evacuation helicopters. With the exception of CAP they operate at low altitude AGL and put their lives on the line for missing or injured subjects. We often put up TFRs requiring clearance, and, in many cases, the manned aircraft won't even fly if we don't have complete control over sUAS resources.

So, as usual, you have missed the point. What we don't need is a bunch of drone operators with your attitude flying their "toys", as you like to call them, in airspace that they don't understand. As in other emergency operations, such as fire-fighting, it is primarily the threat that they pose to other aircraft, not to people on the ground, that is of most concern.
If there is that many aircraft in such a small area all at one time, only an idiot would think a drone would be a wise addition to the effort. Or someone who thought they were better than the real pilots involved. What is a drone going to do that a manned helo cant?
The little reading I have done on 107, there should be NO drones in operation at all. with those conditions. I dont even remember seeing an option for a waiver to permit operating a drone in those conditions.
Never the less, No one knows for sure if a drone is a real hazard in that airspace. They just repeat the hypothetical "what if" scenarios.
if anyone reading this wants a chuckle, grab your mavic hold it in your hand, and feel the weight of this potential killer. JUST DONT try to fly it when a n actual pilot is around. They are pretty punchy about sharing airspace with these herculean drones of mass destruction.
 

sar104

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If there is that many aircraft in such a small area all at one time, only an idiot would think a drone would be a wise addition to the effort. Or someone who thought they were better than the real pilots involved. What is a drone going to do that a manned helo cant?
The little reading I have done on 107, there should be NO drones in operation at all. with those conditions. I dont even remember seeing an option for a waiver to permit operating a drone in those conditions.
Never the less, No one knows for sure if a drone is a real hazard in that airspace. They just repeat the hypothetical "what if" scenarios.
if anyone reading this wants a chuckle, grab your mavic hold it in your hand, and feel the weight of this potential killer. JUST DONT try to fly it when a n actual pilot is around. They are pretty punchy about sharing airspace with these herculean drones of mass destruction.
I would try to explain to you the value of UAVs in search and rescue, and why they can do things that manned aircraft cannot, but I'm pretty sure that you have no interest at all in the subject beyond using it to advance your theories about all those silly Part 107 people trying to feel important - yes?
 

dirkclod

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Now that I have my own Mavic Pro, albeit used, once again I'm thinking of forming a SAR group in the Chicago/N. Illinois area.
Or is there already one?
Essentially a group of volunteer UAV pilots willing to assist in search and rescue operations with local FD/PD.
Any like minded folks?
If we can get @BigAl07 in this he can tell you just what you need to do to get started . He's a Mod in PP & CDP
with us and he knows what he is talking about. From his Sig.
Commercial UAS operator: R/C Aviation Experience - 40+ years, FAA Pilot Certificate (SEL) - 18+ years, NC DOT Aviation Commercial UAS Permit (2016), Insured, AMA and experienced Training UAS operators in Public Safety.
We have a group here in Monroe Co and travel at a minutes notice if needed as well as BigA .
 

BigAl07

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Whew where do we even start . . .

First of let's get one thing straight... Search and Rescue isn't "Commercial" because the FAA wants your $150. That's about the biggest bunch of hogwash I've seen today. The FAA isn't getting that $150 but none the less it's silly to think that. Any flight that is not hobby/recreational has to either fall under Commercial or Public Use. Only a Govt aircraft can be a Public Use Aircraft so that leaves the rest of us operating under Part 107 Regulations. In no galaxy is Search & Rescue a HOBBY/Recreational endeavor. It's not about $$ nor has it ever been.

The best way to get "involved" with SAR is to get yourself embedded with a local SAR group and learn how SAR works. If you don't understand how SAR works and what you will actually be looking for (and it's not usually a human standing in the middle of a field waving their arms at you... unfortunately) then you are wasting your TIME, risking your EQUIPMENT, and worse you are wasting resources within the Incident Command that could be utilized in other tasks. Doing SAR with a sUAS is not going up to 399' and taking this beautiful landscape picture showing the horizon and landscape around you. Unfortunately more often than NOT this is exactly what the sUAS operator submits to IC for review simply because they honestly do not know any better. We have specific operations we are performing in a specific area trying to create USABLE data that can be used to help eliminate large search areas and/or to look for small items that are out of place.

As @sar104 pointed out we have to be able to INTEGRATE into an existing system which could include other sUAS and MANNED aircraft. It's not uncommon to have a manned aircraft in the area searching a grid and us flying in an adjacent grip with a pair of sUAS. If you don't know how/where to communicate and coordinate then you are a PROBLEM instead of a valuable resource.

If you don't have NIMS ICS training then you're not going to understand what the Incident Commanded is asking of you.. actually you won't know what the Incident Commander is or what his/her role is in the Incident Command System. They might as well be talking in KLINGON because it doesn't make sense if you aren't familiar with the lingo and the Chain of Command. In some instances if you're not credentialed you won't even be allowed to be on-scene during a live Incident.

Next.... to say and think that our "toy size" aircraft are the only sUAS being used for Search and Rescue is VERY short sighted. Part 107 is much more than just Mavics and Phantoms. MUCH more indeed. We are operating fixed winged aircraft that could weight up to 54lbs and MuliRotors that can carry 15lbs of payload long distances and so much more. Really and truly a Mavic has some use in SAR operations it's not designed for such and not the ideal sUAS for such work. We use Mavics, Phantoms, Inspires, Matrices, and so many others and to think any other way is just silly.

If anyone is serious about sUAS SAR I am more than willing to help in any way I can. I have lots of resources and a good deal of experience in both real-world SAR as well as training and help departments set up Public Safety sUAS programs. I've done this a good while and I've been training and consulting across the southeastern US for a while now.

Lastly, to say "I haven't seen waivers for THAT/THIS/THOSE" doesn't actually mean that much. Once a sUAS program is established on a Department level utilizing Part 107 operations, most departments will take this one step further and start working on a Public Use COA. This is a lengthy and very intensive process it's very worth while because you can have many things that aren't allowed under P107 built into the COA from the get go. For instance Daylight Waivers, Flight Over People, Flying BVLOS, and more. Every COA is unique and requires a lot of leg work, severa levels of authorization including a dept level attorney sending a letter on your behalf to the FAA but once it's done it really opens up your ability to fly your sUAS in many various situations. Just because something isn't n the Part 107 waivers database doesn't mean we are not able to fly outside of those limitations in many instances.
 

BigAl07

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Never the less, No one knows for sure if a drone is a real hazard in that airspace. They just repeat the hypothetical "what if" scenarios.
Have you seen what a Phantom4 motor did to a Blackhawk rotor blade? $250K in damage and this is an aircraft designed for some very bad situations around the world.


That is the damage to the leading edge of one of the UH-60M main rotor blades. Considering it was "just" a Phantom4 it did inflict some significant damage to a major (non redundant) component on the Blackhawk.

Keep in mind this is an aircraft designed to take on some very nasty scenarios around the world and it was still grounded with an expensive repair/replace procedure.

What do you nay-sayers think would happen to the impeller blades of a passenger aircraft jet engine? What if this part had made it's way into one of the engines (General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft engine) in the Blackhawk UH-60M? Luckily the debris guard (not the technical name BTW) kept it out thank goodness or we might know the answer to that question
 
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