SAR group?

[ac0j]

Have you seen what a Phantom4 motor did to a Blackhawk rotor blade? $250K in damage and this is an aircraft designed for some very bad situations around the world.

That is the damage to the leading edge of one of the UH-60M main rotor blades. Considering it was "just" a Phantom4 it did inflict some significant damage to a major (non redundant) component on the Blackhawk.

Keep in mind this is an aircraft designed to take on some very nasty scenarios around the world and it was still grounded with an expensive repair/replace procedure.

What do you nay-sayers think would happen to the impeller blades of a passenger aircraft jet engine? What if this part had made it's way into one of the engines (General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft engine) in the Blackhawk UH-60M? Luckily the debris guard (not the technical name BTW) kept it out thank goodness or we might know the answer to that question

@BigAl07 , I really enjoy reading your input. It is nice to see things explained in good nature. Rather than explained with a “I can do it but you can’t” mentality (only using several more words to veil that intent)
It explains a lot that you use more professional equipment than a basic Mavic.
All though I am fully aware of the ONLY known aircraft ever damaged by a drone. However, the rest of the concerns are still just wild “what if” arguments. That chopper was probably too low in a tourist loaded area to be safe, and the drone pilot was dumb. I posted a 10 minute video that was removed of helicopter crashes. It was to show that for unknown reasons they crash. Not one single crash because of a drone.
I firmly believe the solution is simpler that the FAA is trying to make it.
1. Make drone sellers attach FAA registration requirements to the box with instructions to register
2. Keep UAV traffic more than 5 miles from airfields and under 400’
3. Keep aircrtaft above 500’ when outside the airfield 5 mile circle or 1000’ above population. ( already in place)

When an 18 year old can buy a Mavic or phantom and have it in the air within minutes you have to expect they won’t know the rules. Most of any accidents will be because of owners like that. I didn’t know till I had a tech question and found this site. The FAA requirements were news to me.
Again Al, thanks for your professional and concise explanation on the matter. Without the condescending overtones.

 

[sar104]

@BigAl07 , I really enjoy reading your input. It is nice to see things explained in good nature. Rather than explained with a “I can do it but you can’t” mentality (only using several more words to veil that intent)
It explains a lot that you use more professional equipment than a basic Mavic.
All though I am fully aware of the ONLY known aircraft ever damaged by a drone. However, the rest of the concerns are still just wild “what if” arguments. That chopper was probably too low in a tourist loaded area to be safe, and the drone pilot was dumb. I posted a 10 minute video that was removed of helicopter crashes. It was to show that for unknown reasons they crash. Not one single crash because of a drone.
I firmly believe the solution is simpler that the FAA is trying to make it.
1. Make drone sellers attach FAA registration requirements to the box with instructions to register
2. Keep UAV traffic more than 5 miles from airfields and under 400’
3. Keep aircrtaft above 500’ when outside the airfield 5 mile circle or 1000’ above population. ( already in place)

When an 18 year old can buy a Mavic or phantom and have it in the air within minutes you have to expect they won’t know the rules. Most of any accidents will be because of owners like that. I didn’t know till I had a tech question and found this site. The FAA requirements were news to me.
Again Al, thanks for your professional and concise explanation on the matter. Without the condescending overtones.

You might see fewer condescending overtones if your posts were not constantly demeaning those who have made the effort to understand the laws and become certified in order to do things like search and rescue, laughing at the use of what you insist on calling "flying toys" for other than fun, and dismissing real safety concerns as stupid.

 

[BigAl07]

@BigAl07 , I really enjoy reading your input. It is nice to see things explained in good nature. Rather than explained with a “I can do it but you can’t” mentality (only using several more words to veil that intent)

I do try to be thorough but most people know I also sometimes fail and dip into the " I can do it but you can't" rut too. Thanks for the kind words.

It explains a lot that you use more professional equipment than a basic Mavic.

Yes I've been lucky to get my hands on several different platforms and have a fairly wide inventory of my own personal aircraft to use. At the same time, my Mavic Platinum is my Go-To aircraft for most day-to-day operations. It gets flow almost every single day in one way or another unless I need something the Mavic can't do (delivery emergency payload, thermal, fly down a narrow corridor etc etc). Then I pull out the bird best suited for the task at hand.

All though I am fully aware of the ONLY known aircraft ever damaged by a drone. However, the rest of the concerns are still just wild “what if” arguments. That chopper was probably too low in a tourist loaded area to be safe, and the drone pilot was dumb. I posted a 10 minute video that was removed of helicopter crashes. It was to show that for unknown reasons they crash. Not one single crash because of a drone.

The UH-60 was flying with the proper authority in a TFR in an area that otherwise would have potentially had tourist aircraft flying. At no time should a sUAS operator be flying in such and area.

The sUAS operator was flying illegally (TFR, BVLOS and had not updated his app to reflect current restrictions) and relying on the video feed and RTH to get him out to (I think) 3 miles and back.

All though I am fully aware of the ONLY known aircraft ever damaged by a drone. However, the rest of the concerns are still just wild “what if” arguments. That chopper was probably too low in a tourist loaded area to be safe, and the drone pilot was dumb. I posted a 10 minute video that was removed of helicopter crashes. It was to show that for unknown reasons they crash. Not one single crash because of a drone.
I firmly believe the solution is simpler that the FAA is trying to make it.

We would love for that to be the only manned aircraft to sUAS impact period but eventually (with or without regulations) we all know the inevitable is going to happen.

1. Make drone sellers attach FAA registration requirements to the box with instructions to register
2. Keep UAV traffic more than 5 miles from airfields and under 400’
3. Keep aircrtaft above 500’ when outside the airfield 5 mile circle or 1000’ above population. ( already in place)

I agree with #1 but the others are not going to happen without an incident causing panic and a knee-jerk reaction from the FAA/NTSB.
#2 won't work for many who are doing business in many busy airspace around the country. And on top of that we have too many "Mavericks" who think they have a God given right to fly their sUAS anywhere, anytime, and in any way they like.
#3 While those rules are in place they already have several instances where deviations are allowed and we never know when an aircraft is going to pop out of the blue and be on top of us in a matter of moments.

When an 18 year old can buy a Mavic or phantom and have it in the air within minutes you have to expect they won’t know the rules. Most of any accidents will be because of owners like that. I didn’t know till I had a tech question and found this site.

18 or less and I agree completely. Somehow we need to have mandatory education prior to flight. I'd like to see something like what DJI was attempting to do but see it come from the FAA and the aircraft grounded until a set of rules is "viewed" and a simple in-app test is completed. This should be done annually or anytime there is a large Rules/Regulation change for instance when the new Hobby rules go into effect hopefully sooner than later.

Again Al, thanks for your professional and concise explanation on the matter. Without the condescending overtones.

Again thank you. I do try but as you probably know often times fail at NOT being condescending.[/USER][/QUOTE]

 

[Esel Jaye]

Not sure how this turned into a discussion about flying drones or frozen turkeys into manned aircraft.

@BigA107.
Couple of things about me, I am a member of the local CERT, for about yen years now, and have some training in SAR operations, beyond that I am in frequent touch/have discussed (on many occasions) the ability of drones to enhance many but not all SAR events, with both the local police and fire chiefs.

Both agree there is potential and formation of a group willing to learn/train how to best assist without getting in the way/disturbing evidence etc., is a place to start.

The intent at this time is to find like minded folks. I also would like to hear from folks who are already conducting SAR operations with their drones.

So thank you for your post, it has been noted and taken under advisement.

 

[dirkclod]

We have a few here that throw threads off course Esel and you just have to over look that here .
Other than that you get what info is good for you and just ignore the rest in any threads .
Good luck with your quest .

 

[BigAl07]

Not sure how this turned into a discussion about flying drones or frozen turkeys into manned aircraft.

@BigA107.
Couple of things about me, I am a member of the local CERT, for about yen years now, and have some training in SAR operations, beyond that I am in frequent touch/have discussed (on many occasions) the ability of drones to enhance many but not all SAR events, with both the local police and fire chiefs.

Both agree there is potential and formation of a group willing to learn/train how to best assist without getting in the way/disturbing evidence etc., is a place to start.

The intent at this time is to find like minded folks. I also would like to hear from folks who are already conducting SAR operations with their drones.

So thank you for your post, it has been noted and taken under advisement.

Sounds like you have a good starting foundation that should help you move forward with a sUAS Emergency Services program easily. I've been doing this a good while both locally, on the state (NC) level and also across state lines here in the southeast. If you have any questions or run into hurdles don't hesitate to reach out to me.

One thing I want to stress more than ANYTHING else with a sUAS program that might be working with/for Public Safety.... get your Marketing/Media campaign developed and released to the public BEFORE you actually have an operational program in place. If John Q. Public finds out about it after-the-fact it will look like the program was assembled with hidden agendas and it will ground a program quicker than running out of funds. As soon as the local community goes against a program your local officials will soon follow and ground the program indefinitely.

 

[BigAl07]

I'm not sure how this link will work but here's a Campaign/PR video a dept put together very recently to highlight their sUAS program and show off the capabilities to the their John Q. Public:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2208089032800009

 

[Esel Jaye]

Sounds like you have a good starting foundation that should help you move forward with a sUAS Emergency Services program easily. I've been doing this a good while both locally, on the state (NC) level and also across state lines here in the southeast. If you have any questions or run into hurdles don't hesitate to reach out to me.

One thing I want to stress more than ANYTHING else with a sUAS program that might be working with/for Public Safety.... get your Marketing/Media campaign developed and released to the public BEFORE you actually have an operational program in place. If John Q. Public finds out about it after-the-fact it will look like the program was assembled with hidden agendas and it will ground a program quicker than running out of funds. As soon as the local community goes against a program your local officials will soon follow and ground the program indefinitely.

Thanks BigA.
I appreciate the advise. I am by nature somewhat cautious and as we have very recently got a new Chief of Police, I'm going to chat with him before moving too much forward.

I was hoping for a greater response to the initial question of interested pilots though.

Would adding pictures of naked Mavic Pro help?

 

[Esel Jaye]

I'm not sure how this link will work but here's a Campaign/PR video a dept put together very recently to highlight their sUAS program and show off the capabilities to the their John Q. Public:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2208089032800009

Nicely done.

not in quite the same vein but...enjoyable nonetheless.

 

[Esel Jaye]

We have a few here that throw threads off course Esel and you just have to over look that here .
Other than that you get what info is good for you and just ignore the rest in any threads .
Good luck with your quest .View attachment 55789View attachment 55790

Thanks.
"Life on the interweb."
or
"There's nowt strange as folk"
or
"It were not for the other people in the world, we'd be having a great time."

 

[Esel Jaye]

@BigAl07 & @sar104
Can you point me in the direction of relevant materials re: requirements and or your own experiences with the groups you fly with?
I have a few folks locally who would be interested in helping but are looking to me for the setup.
Much appreciated.

 

[dirkclod]

Check out our group here
Monroe County MS SAR - Home | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com › Pages › Other › Community
This was from several Christmas Eve's back . Guy was in woods after threading to kill his family with a big knife .
https://vimeo.com/299753635

 

[BigAl07]

sUAS in SAR is such a new concept (globally speaking) there aren't many "credible" groups. We have some outstanding FB groups but they are all geared toward those who are already embedded with an existing agency. Fortunately there are Standards and Procedures being created/drafted right now that will help us across the board as an industry.

Our local requirements are fairly straight forward:

In order to be able to train and be a part of the group:
sUAS ~
sUAS with adjustable camera for Still & Video with removable memory
sUAS with removable battery (yep not all do . . )
Min of 4 mem cards (swap out cards after each flight)
(Keep in mind cards could become EVIDENCE so they may be kept in custody so be prepared to NOT take them home)
sUAS equipment with ability to fly self sufficiently for 2 hours
Ability to self re-charge onscene until support gets on scene (24hrs)

Operator~
Part 107
Demonstrate ability to fly in manual mode for emergency sits (nonGPS)
Able to complete flight course and demonstrate understanding of sUAS rules (local and Fed)
Min 10 hours logged as RPIC in type of aircraft (MultiRotor, Fixed Wing etc)
ICS-100
ICS-200
ICS-300
ICS-400

To be "Deployable" you need the above and
IS-700
IS-800
at least 10 (maybe 12 I'd have to verify) hours in the exact aircraft you plan to fly onscene (Mavic vs Matrice 210 etc)
Equipment, clothing, rations, First Aid to be 100% self sufficient for first 24hrs (depending on Wx cond)
Have trained/flown mission in last 90 days with someone from IMT (We meet/train every month)


The above is a "Shoot from the hip" rundown. I'm heading out the door to meet friends for supper. If I get home at a decent time I'll review the above and add more to it.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

 

[Esel Jaye]

Check out our group here
Monroe County MS SAR - Home | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com › Pages › Other › Community
This was from several Christmas Eve's back . Guy was in woods after threading to kill his family with a big knife .
https://vimeo.com/299753635

Amazing that the camera (is there a FLIR camera for Mavic Pro? ) was picking up the heat signals from the wildlife in the tree tops too.
It also underscores another advantage of sUAV, big helio over head would probably have alerted him to be tracked.

Unfortunately I'm a heathen as far as FB is concerned. Dropped my account after the data debacle, plus, from a professional standpoint, I don't agree with their policy re: abusing my copyright if I chose to share anything on FB. Read the fine print.

 

[BigAl07]

Here are a couple of groups to check out (I'm not endorsing them just listing)
SWARM
Search and Rescue Drones

Wings of Mercy I'm an Admin for and they are developing some amazing software that should make a HUGE difference in the future:
Wings of Mercy

 

[Esel Jaye]

sUAS in SAR is such a new concept (globally speaking) there aren't many "credible" groups. We have some outstanding FB groups but they are all geared toward those who are already embedded with an existing agency. Fortunately there are Standards and Procedures being created/drafted right now that will help us across the board as an industry.

Our local requirements are fairly straight forward:

In order to be able to train and be a part of the group:
sUAS ~
sUAS with adjustable camera for Still & Video with removable memory
sUAS with removable battery (yep not all do . . )
Min of 4 mem cards (swap out cards after each flight)
(Keep in mind cards could become EVIDENCE so they may be kept in custody so be prepared to NOT take them home)
sUAS equipment with ability to fly self sufficiently for 2 hours
Ability to self re-charge onscene until support gets on scene (24hrs)

Operator~
Part 107
Demonstrate ability to fly in manual mode for emergency sits (nonGPS)
Able to complete flight course and demonstrate understanding of sUAS rules (local and Fed)
Min 10 hours logged as RPIC in type of aircraft (MultiRotor, Fixed Wing etc)
ICS-100
ICS-200
ICS-300
ICS-400

To be "Deployable" you need the above and
IS-700
IS-800
at least 10 (maybe 12 I'd have to verify) hours in the exact aircraft you plan to fly onscene (Mavic vs Matrice 210 etc)
Equipment, clothing, rations, First Aid to be 100% self sufficient for first 24hrs (depending on Wx cond)
Have trained/flown mission in last 90 days with someone from IMT (We meet/train every month)


The above is a "Shoot from the hip" rundown. I'm heading out the door to meet friends for supper. If I get home at a decent time I'll review the above and add more to it.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Great place to start from thank you.

 

[BigAl07]

Here's one where you gotta be part of a Public Safety Dept to join but a TON of great information to be had in this one. We are "Doing It" in that one not just talking about it.

UAS for Public Safety - Working Group Global

 

[BigAl07]

Great place to start from thank you.

I'm happy to help if needed. At first it's a DAUNTING process especially when you start working with govt agencies but luckily a lot of us have already gone over those hurdles and can help others coming up the same path.

 

[dirkclod]

Amazing that the camera (is there a FLIR camera for Mavic Pro? ) was picking up the heat signals from the wildlife in the tree tops too.
It also underscores another advantage of sUAV, big helio over head would probably have alerted him to be tracked.

Unfortunately I'm a heathen as far as FB is concerned. Dropped my account after the data debacle, plus, from a professional standpoint, I don't agree with their policy re: abusing my copyright if I chose to share anything on FB. Read the fine print.

Inspire

 

[Esel Jaye]

I'm happy to help if needed. At first it's a DAUNTING process especially when you start working with govt agencies but luckily a lot of us have already gone over those hurdles and can help others coming up the same path.

Come the new year I plan on sitting down with our Fire Chief and see if we can, once again, revamp the CERT program and get back on course with FEMA requirements. It helps that our mayor runs an EM consulting biz.!