Search and Rescue

[Merrill277]

So I live near Teton National Park in Wyoming. Recently there was a report of a missing person near the Tetons. As of today, 6-17-2021 he is still missing. Knowing that drones are prohibited in national parks, I sent them an email to see if I could volunteer to help in the search of the person. I told them I had a drone and could cover a large area in a small amount of time. I asked for permission to fly my drone (MA2) in the park to help with the search. Here is their reply:

That's very kind of you.
It may be difficult to get a hold of the Jenny Lake Rangers while they are conducting SAR, but to volunteer with them contact 307.739.3343.
You can offer to use your drone, but the park has a stern regulation against using drones anywhere within the park.

If you try calling the number you will be directed to a voice message that leaves no options to leave a message. Rinse and repeat.
I understand they have people on foot and helicopters in the air. They are great at what they do. My thinking is that there are a lot of drone operators who would love to help and even volunteer their services in a SAR operation. We can fly low, scanning through thick trees, record video and pictures, use GPS once the person is located to direct help to the person. Helicopters can fly at say 400 feet AGL and drones under that level, or even less if need be.
I also understand that there are those operators who would use this type of circumstance to fly and record Teton videos instead. I also understand that there might be someone in the area who might notice some noise from a drone flying overhead. I further understand that there are some operators who would follow and record video wildlife such as bears and wolves, thus disturbing the delicate balance between nature and man. But, this is a small and rare inconvenience to these animals when compared to someone's life. BTW, helicopters and people on foot are going to disturb them too, are they not? I don't know how much they spend on a SAR, people, helicopters etc. but I am certain it can run into a lot of money. Drone volunteers would cost nothing to the US government.
In my opinion, they could offer training to drone volunteers for SAR purposes. They could coordinate area searches to avoid area search duplication and thus decrease the time involved to find someone. Further, that all drone operators be registered with the FAA. And finally, they could require that no video or pictures taken be published to the internet or other media.
A great resource is being wasted at potentially the cost of someone's life. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
Tell me what you think please?

 

[old man mavic]

@Merrill277 hi fellow flyer ,while i can to some extent sympathise with your viewpoint ,in todays world the biggest thing that prevents things from happening ,in many walks of life is liability ,to conduct SAR it requires a coordinated response from fully trained personal ,all singing off the same hymn sheet
and while your motives for offering your services is admirable ,you very succinctly covered a lot of the points in your post as to why it is not a practicable scenario
if you really want to do SAR then join a local group if there is one in your area ,and undertake the necessary training ,to help you take part if asked

 

[WildDoktor]

if you really want to do SAR then join a local group if there is one in your area ,and undertake the necessary training ,to help you take part if asked

This!

Also, those rangers are most likely using their own drones, and just not publishing that info.

 

[old man mavic]

@WildDoktor you could very well have a valid reason there ,who knows

 

[WildDoktor]

From their own website:

"Does the National Park Service use unmanned aircraft?
The National Park Service uses unmanned aircraft for administrative purposes when appropriate and approved by the director of the region in which the park is located. These purposes may include search and rescue operations, fire operations, scientific study, and aerial photography."

In other words, they can do all the things that we want to do, yet deny us the pleasure of doing them. Seems fair.

(Actually, if you can somehow convince the director of the region you want to fly in that it's a good idea, it's absolutely in his/her power to grant you the right to fly. Finding and convincing that person, however...that's the real trick!)

Can you tell I've looked into this once or twice before? ?

 

[Merrill277]

Like it or not they are still a government bureaucracy! I am sure by now, he's just a goner anyway.

 

[Rich QR]

The best time to coordinate that sort of effort is before your help is needed. Unfortunately, it will always be needed again.

The search effort must be very well coordinated, so that you're searching in an area where you're most needed, and where you won't interfere with other (helicopter) searchers. Plus, they need to know where the missing person isn't, so they need to know where you've already searched. Finally, they need to know where you're flying, so that if they get calls from the public about a noisy drone disturbing the peaceful park experience, they can answer those calls appropriately. So if you want to help, do it as part of their team, not a solo effort.

I've done lots of volunteer work for the National Park Service, mostly removing invasive weed species from native plant habitats. My experience is that they're great to work with, and they really appreciate volunteers and treat them well. But they are also protective of the park, as they should be. If they only see you as a random stranger, they may be less likely to accept your help than if they know you as a reasonable, dedicated, dependable person with useful capabilities. So reach out to them under less stressful circumstances, and try to get to know how they work, what they do, and how you can help.

 

[pgenneken]

Helicopters in the area? I would not be flying..

 

[dave canada]

So I live near Teton National Park in Wyoming. Recently there was a report of a missing person near the Tetons. As of today, 6-17-2021 he is still missing. Knowing that drones are prohibited in national parks, I sent them an email to see if I could volunteer to help in the search of the person. I told them I had a drone and could cover a large area in a small amount of time. I asked for permission to fly my drone (MA2) in the park to help with the search. Here is their reply:

That's very kind of you.
It may be difficult to get a hold of the Jenny Lake Rangers while they are conducting SAR, but to volunteer with them contact 307.739.3343.
You can offer to use your drone, but the park has a stern regulation against using drones anywhere within the park.

If you try calling the number you will be directed to a voice message that leaves no options to leave a message. Rinse and repeat.
I understand they have people on foot and helicopters in the air. They are great at what they do. My thinking is that there are a lot of drone operators who would love to help and even volunteer their services in a SAR operation. We can fly low, scanning through thick trees, record video and pictures, use GPS once the person is located to direct help to the person. Helicopters can fly at say 400 feet AGL and drones under that level, or even less if need be.
I also understand that there are those operators who would use this type of circumstance to fly and record Teton videos instead. I also understand that there might be someone in the area who might notice some noise from a drone flying overhead. I further understand that there are some operators who would follow and record video wildlife such as bears and wolves, thus disturbing the delicate balance between nature and man. But, this is a small and rare inconvenience to these animals when compared to someone's life. BTW, helicopters and people on foot are going to disturb them too, are they not? I don't know how much they spend on a SAR, people, helicopters etc. but I am certain it can run into a lot of money. Drone volunteers would cost nothing to the US government.
In my opinion, they could offer training to drone volunteers for SAR purposes. They could coordinate area searches to avoid area search duplication and thus decrease the time involved to find someone. Further, that all drone operators be registered with the FAA. And finally, they could require that no video or pictures taken be published to the internet or other media.
A great resource is being wasted at potentially the cost of someone's life. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
Tell me what you think please?

thats really sad they should ask the familyt how they feel about it i use my drones to search for sheds and know with 2 mavic pros i can cover every inch of 30 sections and that is a humble figure

 

[GFields]

thanks for sharing!

 

[Winston Bull]

Merrill,

First and foremost, thanks for your interest and your passion—keep it up!

Next, I recently joined my local SAR, and did so specifically so I could be a part of their new drone team. (In the interests of full disclosure I will say that this is really recent, as in this past year.) Our team takes the work extremely seriously with much training, including getting your EMR certification (Emerg Med Responder). So you don’t just sign up—there is the training, plus it took about five or six months just to get my background check done—for a volunteer organization! Do this all—you will find it rewarding and then you will be in a position to help people in need.

Second, however, drones will not be useful in all situations. For example, you mentioned tree cover: even if you are using thermal imagery or something like that you will only have limited success at best if the canopy is really thick, such as in a redwood grove. Otherwise it comes down to good ole groundpounding. Also, in any manifestly coordinated effort you are going to be really hard-pressed to find a chopper pilot eager to fly in close quarters near ground level and trees with a drone. Yes, it can be done, but there is an awful lot of trust required there.

OldManMavic was right when he mentioned liability. For example, one thing you would want to do is real-time broadcasting to the Command Post so that they can see what you see and give recommended action plans based on results. All you need is an unsecured link with someone hacking in and there is a large law suit a-coming. Things like that...

But most importantly—get yourself and your drone involved. Once you are a part of the team you will find that you get treated a lot more seriously. Cheers!

 

[dave canada]

they have been doing this for years i expect they do know how to handle such things

 

[Dale D]

So I live near Teton National Park in Wyoming. Recently there was a report of a missing person near the Tetons. As of today, 6-17-2021 he is still missing. Knowing that drones are prohibited in national parks, I sent them an email to see if I could volunteer to help in the search of the person. I told them I had a drone and could cover a large area in a small amount of time. I asked for permission to fly my drone (MA2) in the park to help with the search. Here is their reply:

That's very kind of you.
It may be difficult to get a hold of the Jenny Lake Rangers while they are conducting SAR, but to volunteer with them contact 307.739.3343.
You can offer to use your drone, but the park has a stern regulation against using drones anywhere within the park.

If you try calling the number you will be directed to a voice message that leaves no options to leave a message. Rinse and repeat.
I understand they have people on foot and helicopters in the air. They are great at what they do. My thinking is that there are a lot of drone operators who would love to help and even volunteer their services in a SAR operation. We can fly low, scanning through thick trees, record video and pictures, use GPS once the person is located to direct help to the person. Helicopters can fly at say 400 feet AGL and drones under that level, or even less if need be.
I also understand that there are those operators who would use this type of circumstance to fly and record Teton videos instead. I also understand that there might be someone in the area who might notice some noise from a drone flying overhead. I further understand that there are some operators who would follow and record video wildlife such as bears and wolves, thus disturbing the delicate balance between nature and man. But, this is a small and rare inconvenience to these animals when compared to someone's life. BTW, helicopters and people on foot are going to disturb them too, are they not? I don't know how much they spend on a SAR, people, helicopters etc. but I am certain it can run into a lot of money. Drone volunteers would cost nothing to the US government.
In my opinion, they could offer training to drone volunteers for SAR purposes. They could coordinate area searches to avoid area search duplication and thus decrease the time involved to find someone. Further, that all drone operators be registered with the FAA. And finally, they could require that no video or pictures taken be published to the internet or other media.
A great resource is being wasted at potentially the cost of someone's life. Of course this is just my humble opinion.
Tell me what you think please?

What I think is that you cannot argue with the government. You are talking to a wall. It will never happen-it will never be approved. The lost person will die first (maybe by the disturbed bear).
Dale

 

[sar104]

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions in this discussion. Most NPS directors are open to drone use for emergency response, but only by recognized resources - i.e. SAR teams in this case. They are not going to give authorization to random members of the public who offer to help. The same applies to other land where sUAS operations are prohibited, such as USFS or BLM wilderness. In most cases it takes one phone call from the SAR Incident Commander to put that authorization in place.

And while it is tempting to think that life or death situations justify almost anything, remember that SAR sUAS operations require Part 107. Also note that if you are planning to cover a significant area then you are likely to need to fly BVLOS, which requires separate authorization from the FAA - another reason why it needs to be part of a formal SAR operation rather than individual volunteers.

 

[Dale D]

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions in this discussion. Most NPS directors are open to drone use for emergency response, but only by recognized resources - i.e. SAR teams in this case. They are not going to give authorization to random members of the public who offer to help. The same applies to other land where sUAS operations are prohibited, such as USFS or BLM wilderness. In most cases it takes one phone call from the SAR Incident Commander to put that authorization in place.

And while it is tempting to think that life and death situations justify almost anything, remember that SAR sUAS operations require Part 107. Also note that if you are planning to cover a significant area then you are likely to need to fly BVLOS, which requires separate authorization from the FAA - another reason why it needs to be part of a formal SAR operation rather than individual volunteers.

All well taken points for sure!

 

[Merrill277]

Thank you all for your kind and educational comments!

 

[Riteguy]

Bureaucracy often times gets in the way of saving lives. I was a part of a Search & Rescue team in the 1980' & '90's and live in a county where the Sheriff cited liability as the reason for not using us, but the local cities within that county would call upon us to supplement their police department during a local disaster for medical aid and other duties. After the team dispanded in the mid 1990's, the county was subjected to massive wildfires where a team such as ours (full of medical personnel) could have been a big resource.