Sedona Arizona drone flight... recreational

[AMann]

My understanding is that, if it is Class E airspace at 700', it is Class G airspace at below 700'. That would mean that it is unrestricted airspace for recreational pilots. Moreover, the 5 mile radius rule is no longer the law so it sounds to me like it is ok to fly from as far as the FAA goes (subject, of course, to the other rules). Am I missing something?

[updated as per FAA advisory released 6/6/19]

As currently posted on the new FAA advisory:
AC 91-57B - Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft – Document Information, Recreational pilots may not fly in the Class G airspace near airports if there is overhead controlled airspace for that airport (Class B,C, D or E) without airport admin permission.

Also, don't fly in the blue dot wilderness areas, and not if a TFR (temporary flight restriction) has been posted in the area (presidential visit, etc.). You can use AirMap app to look these up in your area on the day you want to fly.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

 

[Marcel63]

I looked at the map and do not even have any idea what I am looking at other then it is a map of some sort

 

[AMann]

I looked at the map and do not even have any idea what I am looking at other then it is a map of some sort

We can help out- where are you?

 

[Thomas B]

See post #17 above. The areas inside the dotted lines.

 

[AMann]

See post #17 above. The areas inside the dotted lines.

And post #19 above about what they represent.

 

[Marcel63]

We can help out- where are you?

I live in Phoenix And was actually thinking of going up to Sedona for some flight time. so I will rethinkit

 

[AMann]

I live in Phoenix And was actually thinking of going up to Sedona for some flight time. so I will rethinkit

Yeah, a lot of Phoenix is underneath class B controlled airspace (solid blue lines) from the surface up to 9000 feet above mean sea level (msl), and east and west of it between the fairgrounds and the stadium. But further out, it’s not as low. When you see the fractions that look like this 90/20, Just add two zeros to the end of each number (9000/2000) and it shows that part of the airspace starts at the lower number, 2000 ft amsl, and goes up to 9000 ft msl.
The top bold blue number above the Phoenix airport label shows it is at 1502’ msl, and so that class B just north and south of it only starts at about 500’ above the airport surface (2000msl-1502msl).

As a recreational flyer, for right now in the newest advisory released by the FAA today, even though there is some uncontrolled Class G airspace in Phoenix, you won’t be able to fly in it if you are underneath that controlled airspace surrounding the airport.

There are a lot of places between Phoenix and Sedona that are not near controlled airspace or wilderness areas, so you do have options.

VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

Online VFR and IFR aeronautical charts, Digital Airport / Facility Directory (AFD)

vfrmap.com

 

[Mossiback]

Watch out for those Sedona spiritual vortexes. No telling what they will do to a Mavic.

 

[Thomas B]

Yeah, a lot of Phoenix is underneath class B controlled airspace (solid blue lines) from the surface up to 9000 feet above mean sea level (msl), and east and west of it between the fairgrounds and the stadium. But further out, it’s not as low. When you see the fractions that look like this 90/20, Just add two zeros to the end of each number (9000/2000) and it shows that part of the airspace starts at the lower number, 2000 ft amsl, and goes up to 9000 ft msl.
The top bold blue number above the Phoenix airport label shows it is at 1502’ msl, and so that class B just north and south of it only starts at about 500’ above the airport surface (2000msl-1502msl).

There are a lot of places between Phoenix and Sedona that are not in controlled airspace or wilderness areas, so you do have options.

VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

Online VFR and IFR aeronautical charts, Digital Airport / Facility Directory (AFD)

vfrmap.com

View attachment 74785

Try areas on Snebley Hill road

 

[hazy081258]

You’re right, as currently posted on the FAA website, it only says never fly near airports without actually giving a distance. But use common sense on that one- I’d still follow the 5-mile rule just to be sure, unless you are in a canyon or place where a plane can’t go, and definitely watch out for tour helicopters! Also, don’t fly above ridge or mountain tops above you where you can’t see what is coming from the other side.

Edit: also don't fly in the blue dot wilderness areas, and not if a TFR (temporary flight restriction) has been posted in the area (presidential visit, etc.). You can use AirMap app to look these up in your area on the day you want to fly.

View attachment 74782


As for FAA rules, do to not fly in controlled airspace, no higher than 400’ AGL, and not hitting that 700’ floor of the Class E which actually is measured as above the airport, so you could be technically in it already if you are on top of a nearby hill. Use a topographic map, a map app or altimeter to see how much higher you are than the airport to be sure if there is any controlled airspace above you.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

Thanks for the info. I did not know that the 700' floor (or whatever height is indicated) is above the level of the airport. But I'm in Delaware and it doesn't make much difference here because I don't think there is a 300' elevation change anywhere in the state.

 

[AMann]

Thanks for the info. I did not know that the 700' floor (or whatever height is indicated) is above the level of the airport. But I'm in Delaware and it doesn't make much difference here because I don't think there is a 300' elevation change anywhere in the state.

Keep in mind the 700’ level above ground surface is only for those polygons with shaded edge border lines. If it’s a solid edged line, then you have to look inside the polygon to find the fractional looking number to get the actual elevation above MSL for its base and the top. I know, it’s really confusing and I even got confused a bit writing this and edited my work a bit.

 

[AMann]

Try areas on Snebley Hill road

Hey @Thomas B and @BigAl07 , so I was just looking at this document cited on that new FAA advisory (AC 91-57B - Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft – Document Information) to recreational fliers that they emailed today to is and saw this in it:

“7.1.5 In Class B, C, or D Airspace or Within the Lateral Boundaries of the Surface Area of Class E Airspace Designated for an Airport, the Operator Obtains Prior Authorization From the Administrator or Designee Before Operating and Complies With all Airspace Restrictions and Prohibitions.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this imply you can’t fly as a Recreational pilot even in the Class G airspace underneath a Class E airspace surrounding an airport?? That would probably shut down a lot of Sedona for recreational fliers if that is the case.

 

[Thomas B]

Hey Thomas, so I was just looking at this document cited on that new FAA advisory (AC 91-57B - Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft – Document Information) to recreational fliers that they emailed today to is and saw this in it:

“7.1.5 In Class B, C, or D Airspace or Within the Lateral Boundaries of the Surface Area of Class E Airspace Designated for an Airport, the Operator Obtains Prior Authorization From the Administrator or Designee Before Operating and Complies With all Airspace Restrictions and Prohibitions.”


Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this imply you can’t fly as a Recreational pilot underneath a Class E airspace surrounding an airport?? That would probably sit down a lot of Sedona if that is the case to recreational flyers.

Agree, I got the FAA email also, and that’s my read. The document also states that non107 USS pilot must pass a written exam... good part; the document says the test will be online. Bad part; FAA has not released the exam. So at this instant it seems that the hobbyist is still stuck.

 

[AMann]

Agree, I got the FAA email also, and that’s my read. The document also states that non107 USS pilot must pass a written exam... good part; the document says the test will be online. Bad part; FAA has not released the exam. So at this instant it seems that the hobbyist is still stuck.

I’ve got some editing to do above if that’s the case because I fear what I said was totally wrong. I’ll fix the stuff I did.

But you know what? It is also says that all the operator has to do is contact the airport administrator or designee for their permission prior to flying there.

 

[Thomas B]

I’ve got some editing to do above if that’s the case because I fear what I said was totally wrong. I’ll fix the stuff I did.

But you know what? It is also says that all the operator has to do is contact the airport administrator or designee for their permission prior to flying there.

It’s such a beautiful place. I truly hope this will prove to be the case, even though it runs counter to FAA statements about using LAANC

 

[AMann]

@Thomas B

So who’s going to post the bad news thread with a little glimmer of hope about what the advisory is saying?

 

[Thomas B]

@Thomas B

So who’s going to post the bad news thread with a little glimmer of hope about what the advisory is saying?

Go for it.

 

[kensteele]

@Thomas B

So who’s going to post the bad news thread with a little glimmer of hope about what the advisory is saying?

i'll do it!

except i really don't know what it means fully.

 

[kadras]

There is no Class E surface airspace at Sedona. It's all Class G.

 

[AMann]

There is no Class E surface airspace at Sedona. It's all Class G.

The way the advisory is written, that doesn’t matter. It implies that the distance laterally away from the airport where class E lies above the class G is restricted for recreational pilots unless they can get permission from the airport administration or the designee for the airport.