Sedona Arizona drone flight... recreational

[mtb.arizona]

So I'm a bit confused on the status of flying a drone in the general area. For anyone not familiar, Sedona is obviously an epic place for scenery, but there's an airport more or less smack in the middle of the place. A very large portion of the trail systems in the area fall within a 5 mile radius of the Sedona airport.

So based on that 5 mile radius alone, and what I recall reading recently, it would sound like as a non-107 pilot, I'm SOL?

But then there's this article (admittedly, pre-dating the May rule changes.)

Sedona's 'No Drone Zone' signs don't obey FAA law, can't be enforced by USFS, Sedona Airport - Sedona Red Rock News

Drones are small remote-controlled flying machines often used by hobbyists for aerial photography, and reconnaissance in firefighting and law enforcement. Sedona has become a destination for recreational drone users due to the scenic geography. But drone enthusiasts have noticed the dozens of...

www.redrocknews.com

Meanwhile, the DJI flight map shows no restrictions or anything around Sedona. Same with Airmap (although that at least also indicates the wilderness boundaries around there which I'd be avoiding.)

So yeah, anyone with a bit more knowledge on the rules/area than me able to chime in? I'd REALLY like to get some footage during some mountain bike riding, but i'm not looking to anger the FAA in the process.

Looking to ride/operate drone in the general area circled in blue below. Airport a bit to the north (and located on a higher elevation/mesa.) Would be looking at pretty low fliying as well.

 

[AMann]

So I'm a bit confused on the status of flying a drone in the general area. For anyone not familiar, Sedona is obviously an epic place for scenery, but there's an airport more or less smack in the middle of the place. A very large portion of the trail systems in the area fall within a 5 mile radius of the Sedona airport.

So based on that 5 mile radius alone, and what I recall reading recently, it would sound like as a non-107 pilot, I'm SOL?

But then there's this article (admittedly, pre-dating the May rule changes.)

Sedona's 'No Drone Zone' signs don't obey FAA law, can't be enforced by USFS, Sedona Airport - Sedona Red Rock News

Drones are small remote-controlled flying machines often used by hobbyists for aerial photography, and reconnaissance in firefighting and law enforcement. Sedona has become a destination for recreational drone users due to the scenic geography. But drone enthusiasts have noticed the dozens of...

www.redrocknews.com

Meanwhile, the DJI flight map shows no restrictions or anything around Sedona. Same with Airmap (although that at least also indicates the wilderness boundaries around there which I'd be avoiding.)

So yeah, anyone with a bit more knowledge on the rules/area than me able to chime in? I'd REALLY like to get some footage during some mountain bike riding, but i'm not looking to anger the FAA in the process.

Looking to ride/operate drone in the general area circled in blue below. Airport a bit to the north (and located on a higher elevation/mesa.) Would be looking at pretty low fliying as well.

That entire area is in Class E airspace at 700’ above the surface, in addition to being within 5-miles from the airport. I think you will have to wait until the new system is implemented.

 

[mtb.arizona]

Scouring numerous maps/sources, Ill be damned if I could find any indication of that being controlled airspace, except finally one search (which made it look like basically every square inch of the country is controlled airspace, but i digress.)

Is there any source out there that's accessible and understandable to an airspace layman that is actually reliable? Had I just gone with the built-in DJI system/mapping and assumed it to be accurate, it would've happily let me take off in Sedona.

Oh the joys of trying to navigate government rules... Makes the three amateur radio/fcc tests I went through seem easy =)

 

[FormerMember07122019_2]

That entire area is in Class E airspace at 700’ above the surface, in addition to being within 5-miles from the airport. I think you will have to wait until the new system is implemented.

If it’s class E 700 then below 700 ft AGL is Class G uncontrolled so he is good to go.

 

[AMann]

Scouring numerous maps/sources, Ill be damned if I could find any indication of that being controlled airspace, except finally one search (which made it look like basically every square inch of the country is controlled airspace, but i digress.)

Is there any source out there that's accessible and understandable to an airspace layman that is actually reliable? Had I just gone with the built-in DJI system/mapping and assumed it to be accurate, it would've happily let me take off in Sedona.

Oh the joys of trying to navigate government rules... Makes the three amateur radio/fcc tests I went through seem easy =)

FAA Sectional charts.

VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

Online VFR and IFR aeronautical charts, Digital Airport / Facility Directory (AFD)

vfrmap.com

 

[BigAl07]

As stated already, if it's indeed (and you can verify that as it's your tailfeathers on the line if it's wrong) Class E-SRF700 then you can fly from the grass up to 400' (400'AGL is the top limit). If there wasn't a legal ceiling of 400'AGL you could fly up to 700'AGL and still be in Class G (Good to Go) airspace. It would go from Class G to Class E at 701'AGL.

You're going to have to learn to read and understand a Sectional Chart to pass your test (I'm assuming) so it's a good idea to start learning now so you can make an educated and accurate determination yourself on what Class you are actually going to be flying in.

 

[mtb.arizona]

With no actual valid commercial plans for my drone use, I could take or leave the 107 test. For me it's more about learning and challenging myself just for the hell of it. That was the only reason i went all the way up to the Extra-class license with the FCC. I have yet to use a single thing that license gives me access to that wasn't already covered at the technician level.

Of course, those tests (and the prep for it) were free, don't require any periodic recertification, etc. I don't even know (yet) what 107 costs/involves.

That said, those air charts look like some wonderful foreign language stuff to me still =)

I fully agree that learning it is a must since in the end, it's my own *** on the line, and the stakes could actually be kinda high.

 

[kensteele]

or you can just go there and fly just like everybody else is doing.

 

[kensteele]

if that's the case, the faa isn't the only law to comply with. i believe those articles are wrong. if signs are posted and you violate the signage (whether it's accurate or not), you could find yourself in trouble. state and local governments cheat. they post signs that are illegal, they reference "laws" that doesn't exist, the information on the sign is often outdated but in the end, the signs continue to be enforceable by police and sheriff and park rangers. these signs are meant to confuse the public and they play on the [non]discretion that law enforcement have when making decisions in the field. you can be trespassed, cited for disorderly conduct, drone confiscated...even arrested.

what's going to suck is if you go up to sedona and you can't fly your drone anywhere, you'll leave with nothing. if you start flying and you're told to stop or move, that's still a problem. "a right delayed is a right denied." if you get in trouble, it will only serve to deter you later when you go to red rock or up to flagstaff or four corners and you see "signs" there. same thing with all the gun signs that get posted. we actually had to put language in the laws regarding signs.

i don't encourage anyone to break the law. sometimes it's ok to go ahead and ask forgiveness later. it's up to you. there are dozens of drone videos and i bet there are thousands of drones flying all over that area. it's your call.

 

[BigAl07]

With no actual valid commercial plans for my drone use, I could take or leave the 107 test. For me it's more about learning and challenging myself just for the hell of it. That was the only reason i went all the way up to the Extra-class license with the FCC. I have yet to use a single thing that license gives me access to that wasn't already covered at the technician level.

Of course, those tests (and the prep for it) were free, don't require any periodic recertification, etc. I don't even know (yet) what 107 costs/involves.

That said, those air charts look like some wonderful foreign language stuff to me still =)

I fully agree that learning it is a must since in the end, it's my own *** on the line, and the stakes could actually be kinda high.

Ummmm..... as a recreational operator the FAA is going to require you take the Hobby/Recreational test but it's still being developed right now.

 

[mtb.arizona]

if that's the case, the faa isn't the only law to comply with. i believe those articles are wrong. if signs are posted and you violate the signage (whether it's accurate or not), you could find yourself in trouble. state and local governments cheat. they post signs that are illegal, they reference "laws" that doesn't exist, the information on the sign is often outdated but in the end, the signs continue to be enforceable by police and sheriff and park rangers. these signs are meant to confuse the public and they play on the [non]discretion that law enforcement have when making decisions in the field. you can be trespassed, cited for disorderly conduct, drone confiscated...even arrested.

what's going to suck is if you go up to sedona and you can't fly your drone anywhere, you'll leave with nothing. if you start flying and you're told to stop or move, that's still a problem. "a right delayed is a right denied." if you get in trouble, it will only serve to deter you later when you go to red rock or up to flagstaff or four corners and you see "signs" there. same thing with all the gun signs that get posted. we actually had to put language in the laws regarding signs.

i don't encourage anyone to break the law. sometimes it's ok to go ahead and ask forgiveness later. it's up to you. there are dozens of drone videos and i bet there are thousands of drones flying all over that area. it's your call.

Funny you should mention signage in relation to boomsticks. I battled the City of Phoenix, and Scottsdale to a lesser degree, over their signs which at the time maintained that firearms were not allowed (except with ccw permit) despite the laws having changed to preclude municipalities in AZ from prohibiting them. They were full of excuses for not updating the signs, but eventually accepted reality and caught up with the actual statutes. Today it's very rare that I spot any of hte outdated signs, but even then, I'm not the least bit concerned about improper enforcement since most of the police around here are actually brighter than a sign. It also wouldn't stop me from ignoring and blatantly disregarding signs when I know the actual law is on my side, and taking it to court.

FWIW, no, invalid signs are NOT enforceable. That doesn't mean an officer who doesn't know better won't try (and even succeed) but it won't affect my behavior whatsoever =)

That said, I won't push my luck unless I'm absolutely certain that I am in the right and that the law supports my actions. But once I am sure, it's open season.

With specific regard to Sedona, I'm probably going to divert to some trails/camping around Prescott for three reasons. First is that it's gonna be 10 degrees cooler than Sedona. I'm already gonna be boiling in 108 degree temps come Wednesday back here in Phoenix, so I might as well get the most out of this particular weekend trip. Second, assuming I have enough signal where I camp I'd like to actually do some research on the issue as well as take the time at camp to learn how to read those sectional chart things. (If it's actually class G, and there isn't a hard-fast rule for non-tower airports having the 5 mile buffer, I'll gladly schedule Sedona again in a few weeks and get my drone on. Lastly, I only bought this thing a week or so ago... A little more practice under my belt flying it in less busy places is probably a good idea anyway.

 

[mtb.arizona]

Ummmm..... as a recreational operator the FAA is going to require you take the Hobby/Recreational test but it's still being developed right now.

I look forward to adding to my pile of federal tests passed =) Like I said earlier, I'm not even averse to getting the commercial license since I kinda enjoy learning and taking on challenges, big or small. I just haven't had the time yet to even find out what that entails. Heck, I didn't know it was even a thing until I bought the drone.

 

[AMann]

If it’s class E 700 then below 700 ft AGL is Class G uncontrolled so he is good to go.

Besides checking the FAA website to make sure that there isn’t a TFR issued while he’s in Sedona, he’s just going to have to stay under that 700’ - including flying out too far away from the top of high hills.

Funny you should mention signage in relation to boomsticks. I battled the City of Phoenix, and Scottsdale to a lesser degree, over their signs which at the time maintained that firearms were not allowed (except with ccw permit) despite the laws having changed to preclude municipalities in AZ from prohibiting them. They were full of excuses for not updating the signs, but eventually accepted reality and caught up with the actual statutes. Today it's very rare that I spot any of hte outdated signs, but even then, I'm not the least bit concerned about improper enforcement since most of the police around here are actually brighter than a sign. It also wouldn't stop me from ignoring and blatantly disregarding signs when I know the actual law is on my side, and taking it to court.

FWIW, no, invalid signs are NOT enforceable. That doesn't mean an officer who doesn't know better won't try (and even succeed) but it won't affect my behavior whatsoever =)

That said, I won't push my luck unless I'm absolutely certain that I am in the right and that the law supports my actions. But once I am sure, it's open season.

With specific regard to Sedona, I'm probably going to divert to some trails/camping around Prescott for three reasons. First is that it's gonna be 10 degrees cooler than Sedona. I'm already gonna be boiling in 108 degree temps come Wednesday back here in Phoenix, so I might as well get the most out of this particular weekend trip. Second, assuming I have enough signal where I camp I'd like to actually do some research on the issue as well as take the time at camp to learn how to read those sectional chart things. (If it's actually class G, and there isn't a hard-fast rule for non-tower airports having the 5 mile buffer, I'll gladly schedule Sedona again in a few weeks and get my drone on. Lastly, I only bought this thing a week or so ago... A little more practice under my belt flying it in less busy places is probably a good idea anyway.

Get the paper Phoenix Sectional Chart (Amazon has it), they explain all the symbols in the legend, are fun to look at and make great wall displays when you are not traveling with them!

Amazon.com: FAA Chart: VFR Sectional PHOENIX SPHX (Current Edition): GPS & Navigation

Amazon.com: FAA Chart: VFR Sectional PHOENIX SPHX (Current Edition): GPS & Navigation

www.amazon.com

Note: a lot of them are going on sale because the edition just expired April 25, 2019, but its a good deal as airplane pilots have to buy them almost every year.

 

[Thomas B]

Here’s links to obtain authorization from the airport in Sedona and an interesting and informative article from a pilot on his experiences there in seeking permission to fly his drone.
Sedona Airport – Sedona Oak Creek Airport Authority Scroll down to the drone link.
And the article link:

https://www.thedronemonkey.com/blog-1/2018/8/13/whats-up-with-this-sign-and-why-we-chose-not-to-fly-at-sedona-sez-today

Of course don’t forget LAANC clearance from FAA also.

 

[FormerMember07122019_2]

Here’s links to obtain authorization from the airport in Sedona and an interesting and informative article from a pilot on his experiences there in seeking permission to fly his drone.
Sedona Airport – Sedona Oak Creek Airport Authority Scroll down to the drone link.
And the article link:

https://www.thedronemonkey.com/blog-1/2018/8/13/whats-up-with-this-sign-and-why-we-chose-not-to-fly-at-sedona-sez-today

Of course don’t forget LAANC clearance from FAA also.

The OP is a recreation pilot and the airport sounds like it is in uncontrolled airspace, then he doesn’t need authorization according to the new rules that went into effect in May.

 

[Thomas B]

The OP is a recreation pilot and the airport sounds like it is in uncontrolled airspace, then he doesn’t need authorization according to the new rules that went into effect in May.

Agree, I even got permission to fly, both recreational and 107, in less than a minute.
The website provides a courtesy to the airport and the article is just excellent food for thought as well as info about some of the signs posted around Sedona.

 

[Keule]

Here the airspace of the intended flight area:


Class E with floor 700 ft AGL. Below is Class G.

The intended flight area is visible as blue solid line with inside blue dots.

While not regulated by the FAA, other areas such as National Parks or certain cities have banned the use of drones. Certain parks or wildlife refuges are charted.

Check local park regulations for launching or landing a drone in that area.

 

[bliksem]

Interesting read. I'm in Sedona today through Sunday and did my research before going to Sedona and decided I will not be flying my drone anywhere around the area. I would love to fly but I'd rather not have any interaction with law enforcement. I think the potential for being reported is too high.

 

[AMann]

Interesting read. I'm in Sedona today through Sunday and did my research before going to Sedona and decided I will not be flying my drone anywhere around the area. I would love to fly but I'd rather not have any interaction with law enforcement. I think the potential for being reported is too high.

Hello, if you can find BLM lands that are not within the blue polygons with dots, that would be ok. Inside those, it’s prohibited as they represent wilderness areas.

 

[hazy081258]

That entire area is in Class E airspace at 700’ above the surface, in addition to being within 5-miles from the airport. I think you will have to wait until the new system is implemented.

My understanding is that, if it is Class E airspace at 700', it is Class G airspace at below 700'. That would mean that it is unrestricted airspace for recreational pilots. Moreover, the 5 mile radius rule is no longer the law so it sounds to me like it is ok to fly from as far as the FAA goes (subject, of course, to the other rules). Am I missing something?