Stopped by campus police and told I can't fly over campus, even though i had LAANC authorization

[F00Man]

My guess is they wouldn't care whether they were wrong or not on this issue and would most likely insist on having it their way regardless (I could be wrong, but I doubt it).

Most of all of the folks in that state up north, have a tendency to be "I can enforce my own rules" even though they conflict with the law. BTW - Losing one time in 10 years to the team up north, isn't so bad really.

"OH--IO"

 

[pdipasquale]

(this is Michigan)
I've been stopped by the police once or twice before just asking what I was doing and nothing else beyond a 2 minute conversation happened.

Today however I was flying around a university that is also within controlled airspace. I have a part 107 license and i applied for and received LAANC authorization to fly within the area.

About 10-15 minutes into the flight an officer knocked on my car door asking about why I was flying and where I was flying. Apparently the university has it's own tracking system and could actually track the flight path of the drone. I was not standing on university property. But parts of the flight path took the drone over university property.

My understanding was only the FAA could tell you where you can and can not fly your drone. I even mentioned that, politely, to the officer and he acknowledged the issue but arguing the law was beyond his pay grade and he was just there to enforce the ordinances the university had.

I wasn't about to argue with the cop, since no matter what the law actually is, it's an argument that wouldn't have ended well for me.

This is what's on the university's page regarding drone usage:



Am I incorrect about only the FAA controlling airspace?

That's a Univ. policy, not a law.

 

[Captain Lopez]

HI! I think I can help you ! I am an FAA Safety Team, Representative. My advice is to check your local FSDO and ask for a Drone Pro in your area. I am sure that they will gladly help you. FAAST members are volunteers and don't have authority other than education on regulations and operations. I don't belong to your area , but check there page faast.gov and find them in the map of your state. My other advice is to keep a flight log and a maintenance pre flight check available. Remember that you must choose the purpose of your flight before taking off. Either commercial or recreational. As a courtesy I will also advice that you proceed with a RTH and then explain to the L.E.O the regulations that you are flying ( LAANC approved number) . Unless there is a TFR or NOTAM on that area there should be no problem. Only the FAA has authority in NAS .

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

Don't shoot the messenger but you may want to look at the UM regulations on drones at

Drones on Campus | Division of Public Safety & Security

Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), commonly known as drones, are not permitted to operate, take off or land from, on or over University of Michigan property.

dpss.umich.edu

The University is a special state governmental entity and can create its own laws and enforce them, which they have done for drones in Article XVI in the U-M Regents' Ordinance, beginning on page 33...

Section 2 Criminal Provisions​

​

(a) Prohibition. Except as provided in Section 5 [Exceptions] and 6 [Waiver] of this Article, it shall be unlawful for anyone to operate, take off, or land a UAV from, on, or over University of Michigan property.​

(b) Penalty. A person who violates this Section 2 is guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction, punishable by imprisonment for not less than ten days and no more than sixty days, or by a fine of not more than fifty dollars, or both.​

Section 3 Civil Provisions​

​

(a) Prohibition. Except as provided in Sections 5 [Exceptions] and 6 [Waiver] of this Article, no person shall assist in the operation, take off, or landing of a UAV from, on, or over University of Michigan property.​

​

(b) Penalty. A violation of this Section 3 shall constitute a civil infraction and shall be punishable by a fine of not more than fifty dollars.​

Section 4 Impoundment of the UAV​

​

A law enforcement officer with a reasonable belief that a UAV is being operated in violation of any provisions of this Article may also impound the UAV. The impoundment shall involve removal of the UAV to a University of Michigan provided place of safekeeping until its owner can be located and notified. If the impounded UAV is not claimed by and returned to its owner within a time period considered by the University of Michigan to be reasonable, then it shall be disposed of in accordance with University of Michigan policy. The Executive Director of the Division of Public Safety and Security or the Executive Director’s designee with respect to the Ann Arbor campus, or the respective Chancellor or the Chancellor’s designee with respect to the Dearborn and Flint campuses, may impose a reasonable charge for the storage and handling of an impounded UAV while it is in the possession of the University of Michigan. Any UAV impounded shall not be released until all applicable charges and fines have been paid.​

The ordnance also defines "Law enforcement officer" as "a University law enforcement officer or a non-University law enforcement officer of legally established law enforcement agencies."

https://regents.umich.edu/files/meetings/01-01/Regents_Ordinance_July_2020.pdf

 

[cgmaxed]

Just don't take off or land on their property. And certainly don't have a point of operations location that the university police can see you from. Stay a block off campus at least. If your standing on university property, even if you didn't take off or land there, they rule your world. If your not a student or faculty, you're a trespasser if your are walking or standing on university property. Police are very very very inventive when it comes to making up statute violations. They don't care if the the violation gets thrown out in court either. They can arrest you, give you a ticket, throw you in jail, and there is nothing you can do about it. Just leave, if they tell you to leave. Don't argue or educate. Just land your drone off campus and pack it up.

 

[thispilothere]

check there page faast.gov and find them in the map of your state.

Can you give a direct link to that map? The website isn't coming up for me.

 

[thispilothere]

(a) Prohibition. Except as provided in Sections 5 [Exceptions] and 6 [Waiver] of this Article, no person shall assist in the operation, take off, or landing of a UAV from, on, or over University of Michigan property.

This still just means you can't land, take off or operate. You can still fly over the property. They include the "over" language to deliberately confuse people into thinking that it's a complete ban.

It's easy to see why some cop doesn't understand what it's saying.

 

[sar104]

Don't shoot the messenger but you may want to look at the UM regulations on drones at

Drones on Campus | Division of Public Safety & Security

Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), commonly known as drones, are not permitted to operate, take off or land from, on or over University of Michigan property.

dpss.umich.edu

The University is a special state governmental entity and can create its own laws and enforce them, which they have done for drones in Article XVI in the U-M Regents' Ordinance, beginning on page 33...

Section 2 Criminal Provisions​

​

(a) Prohibition. Except as provided in Section 5 [Exceptions] and 6 [Waiver] of this Article, it shall be unlawful for anyone to operate, take off, or land a UAV from, on, or over University of Michigan property.​

(b) Penalty. A person who violates this Section 2 is guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction, punishable by imprisonment for not less than ten days and no more than sixty days, or by a fine of not more than fifty dollars, or both.​

Section 3 Civil Provisions​

​

(a) Prohibition. Except as provided in Sections 5 [Exceptions] and 6 [Waiver] of this Article, no person shall assist in the operation, take off, or landing of a UAV from, on, or over University of Michigan property.​

​

(b) Penalty. A violation of this Section 3 shall constitute a civil infraction and shall be punishable by a fine of not more than fifty dollars.​

Section 4 Impoundment of the UAV​

​

A law enforcement officer with a reasonable belief that a UAV is being operated in violation of any provisions of this Article may also impound the UAV. The impoundment shall involve removal of the UAV to a University of Michigan provided place of safekeeping until its owner can be located and notified. If the impounded UAV is not claimed by and returned to its owner within a time period considered by the University of Michigan to be reasonable, then it shall be disposed of in accordance with University of Michigan policy. The Executive Director of the Division of Public Safety and Security or the Executive Director’s designee with respect to the Ann Arbor campus, or the respective Chancellor or the Chancellor’s designee with respect to the Dearborn and Flint campuses, may impose a reasonable charge for the storage and handling of an impounded UAV while it is in the possession of the University of Michigan. Any UAV impounded shall not be released until all applicable charges and fines have been paid.​

The ordnance also defines "Law enforcement officer" as "a University law enforcement officer or a non-University law enforcement officer of legally established law enforcement agencies."

https://regents.umich.edu/files/meetings/01-01/Regents_Ordinance_July_2020.pdf

They can create whatever laws they wish to, and enforce them where they have jurisdiction. They don't have jurisdiction off campus or in the airspace above campus, so the "over" clause in 2 (a) is invalid and is preempted by federal authority delegated to the FAA.

 

[hiflyer201]

You were in the wrong place at the wrong time. you're just going to have to try a different angle.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

This still just means you can't land take off or operate. You can still fly over the property. They include the "over" language to deliberately confuse people into thinking that it's a complete ban.

It's easy to see why some cop doesn't understand what it's saying.

University is a special state governmental entity and can create its own laws and enforce them

The above statement should be checked first to see if it is true. Remember your in Michigan.
And even if it is not, it is in writing and the locals will use that written document to stop you, write you a citation, take you to jail, fine you, confiscate your drone. Any or all of the above. Do you want to challenge that as a violator, or challenge that before hand to get it changed. If you test it by continuing to fly, you will most likely get what you ask for, or not.
You can do as some say here to fly and ignore the above restrictions, and maybe pay a hefty price. Or you can maybe check with Drone Law and Drone Attorney Assistance. Ask Jonathan Ruppecht. He is an attorney who has fought some of these battles in Michigan. He may have some good advice on which way to go.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

They can create whatever laws they wish to, and enforce them where they have jurisdiction. They don't have jurisdiction off campus or in the airspace above campus, so the "over" clause in 2 (a) is invalid and is preempted by federal authority delegated to the FAA.

Based on the above posted info from the University, I respectfully disagree with everyone's suggestion to keep flying OVER the campus. Please read my post above. As it is written, even though it is not legal in the eyes of the FAA, the local police will still give him much heartache.

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

They can create whatever laws they wish to, and enforce them where they have jurisdiction. They don't have jurisdiction off campus or in the airspace above campus, so the "over" clause in 2 (a) is invalid and is preempted by federal authority delegated to the FAA.

If it was UM police (or police of another public university) their lawful jurisdiction is both on and around their campus - here in California per state law it's 1 mile around a campus. That said, as I read the UM ordnance a person is going to be cited for a misdemeanor by either UM or local police, and then have to go to local state court, where its most likely the local judge will enforce the university's law and find them guilty. Yes you can appeal - but that's a long expensive process, even longer if you try to get it into a federal court after losing in state court... and by the way there's the potential for an unhappy judge to sentence you to 10 to 60 days in jail, that you'd most likely serve before any appeal was even heard.

 

[GFields]

Uninformed/uneducated LE can be hard to deal with.

 

[SkiProiii]

I live in Canada & if someone flow a drone around my house without asking first, I think I could argue invasion of privacy. But having flow drones commercially since 2012, i wonder why you didn’t go to the institution first, explain what you wanted to do. Having been in a similar situation a number of times, I’ve never had anyone refuse, in fact, au contraire every person/institution I’ve consulted has been interested and asked if they could help. I’ve always provided copies of some photographs as a thank you afterwards. Laws don’t cover individuals sensitivities very well. I would suggest treat them as you would wish to be treated. Confrontation usually goes down rabbit holes, a little interaction, friendly exchange & it could all turn out differently, everyone is happy. Just my thoughts from years of experience as a commercial photographer.

Totally agree - while your flight may be totally legal, they clearly don’t want drones flying above their property. Same applies here in Canada - property owners do not own the airspace above.

In Canada, we have drone regulation and then all the other laws that still apply to drones too. I suspect same in USA.

From the drone regulation perspective in Canada - both the house and University flight scenarios would need an advanced license and operation authorization if the drone would be within 100ft of people not directly involved in the flight, as would Restricted airspace too.

Other laws that aren’t specific to drones like privacy laws (relatively easy to address) and mischief (essentially interrupting the quiet enjoyment of one’s property) could be bit harder to argue against if the property owner wanted to make an issue of flights above their property. But, if you’re flying 250 feet up with a smaller quiet drone, I would think it would be more difficult for a land owner to claim you are interfering with their quiet enjoyment. Doesn’t mean the police wouldn’t be called and the pilot would be left to argue these points - totally ruining one’s afternoon of flying!

 

[sar104]

Based on the above posted info from the University, I respectfully disagree with everyone's suggestion to keep flying OVER the campus. Please read my post above. As it is written, even though it is not legal in the eyes of the FAA, the local police will still give him much heartache.

If it was UM police (or police of another public university) their lawful jurisdiction is both on and around their campus - here in California per state law it's 1 mile around a campus. That said, as I read the UM ordnance a person is going to be cited for a misdemeanor by either UM or local police, and then have to go to local state court, where its most likely the local judge will enforce the university's law and find them guilty. Yes you can appeal - but that's a long expensive process, even longer if you try to get it into a federal court after losing in state court... and by the way there's the potential for an unhappy judge to sentence you to 10 to 60 days in jail, that you'd most likely serve before any appeal was even heard.

Just to be clear - I'm not giving any advice on whether or not to fly in this location - I'm simply pointing out that the University has exceeded its authority with that attempted regulation.

And even if the University LE officers have jurisdiction off campus, that is not equivalent to the University being able to create laws that apply off campus.

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

University is a special state governmental entity and can create its own laws and enforce them

The above statement should be checked first to see if it is true. Remember your in Michigan.

From the UM Ordinance....

WHEREAS, Article VIII, Section 5 of the Michigan Constitution of 1963 provides that The Regents of The University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate and vests in it the general supervision of the University; and

WHEREAS, Section 5 of Public Act 151 of 1851, as amended (Michigan Compiled Laws Annotated, Section 390.5), provides that the Regents shall have power to enact ordinances, by-laws, and regulations for the government of the University; and

WHEREAS, Section 3 of Public Act 151 of 1851, as amended (Michigan Compiled Laws Annotated, Section 390.3), provides that the government of the University is vested in the Regents; and

WHEREAS, Section 1 of Public Act 80 of 1905, as amended (Michigan Compiled Laws Annotated, Section 19.141), provides that the Regents shall have authority to make and prescribe rules and regulations for the care, preservation, and protection of buildings and property dedicated and appropriated to the public use, over which the Regents have jurisdiction or power of control and the conduct of those coming upon University property, which may be necessary for the maintenance of good order and the protection of its property, and further provides that the Regents shall have authority to enforce such rules and regulations; and

WHEREAS, Section 1 of Public Act 291 of 1967 (Michigan Compiled Laws Annotated, Section 390.891), authorizes the Regents to enact parking, traffic, and pedestrian ordinances for the government and control of its campuses, and to provide fines for violations of the ordinances; and Section 3 of that Act permits the Regents to establish a Parking Violations Bureau as an exclusive agency to accept admissions of responsibility in cases of civil infraction violations of any parking ordinance and to collect and retain fines and costs as prescribed in the ordinance for violations; and

WHEREAS, pursuant to the above-designated authority, and in discharge of the responsibility imposed by them, The Regents of the University of Michigan deem it necessary to adopt an ordinance and rules and regulations for the care, preservation, protection, and government of University property; for the regulation of the conduct of persons coming upon its property; for the regulation of driving and parking of motor vehicles, vehicles and bicycles upon its property; for the removal and impoundment of motor vehicles, vehicles and bicycles abandoned thereon; for the maintenance of good order; for the promotion of public health, safety, and general welfare in and upon its property; and for any other purposes as permitted under the laws of the State of Michigan.

WHEREAS, nothing herein shall be construed or interpreted to constitute an exclusive remedy for conduct that violates University policy; University ordinances; or municipal, state, federal, or other laws.

 

[thispilothere]

University is a special state governmental entity and can create its own laws and enforce them

The above statement should be checked first to see if it is true. Remember your in Michigan.
And even if it is not, it is in writing and the locals will use that written document to stop you, write you a citation, take you to jail, fine you, confiscate your drone. Any or all of the above. Do you want to challenge that as a violator, or challenge that before hand to get it changed. If you test it by continuing to fly, you will most likely get what you ask for, or not.

A. Even the state of Michigan couldn't make that law. I doubt a "special state governmental entity" could.

B. I'm sure a cop would be pleased to write a citation or take you to jail. Even if Jesus Himself told them it isn't illegal, they would try to cite you under a nuisance law or any other thing once their ego gets involved.

 

[Trackerputnam]

I had a similar situation with better results! I need to monitor a traffic patterns. The university parking lot was better for parking because it was empty and elevated. No people on street level could see me. I found a number for campus security, explained my situation, 107, and such. The lieutenant in charge gave me permission. And had an officer came down and watch me, to keep people away. Which helped because the transportation bus center came over and tried to tell me I could not fly there. But I had an officer tell him differently. I always wear a safety vest and this also makes it look like you know what your doing and like you are important.

Be in charge and tell people what you are doing and why. Make them believe you know what you are doing.

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

A. Even the state of Michigan couldn't make that law. I doubt a "special state governmental entity" could.

B. I'm sure a cop would be pleased to write a citation or take you to jail. Even if Jesus Himself told them it isn't illegal, they would try to cite you under a nuisance law or any other thing once their ego gets involved.

Also unless you get lucky and the judge in your case is a Part 107 pilot and has some sympathy for you, most local judges are going to look at the UM Ordinance (and only it) and say "guilty" - even if you lawyer (and you better have one) reads the FAA regulations to them.

 

[thispilothere]

Also unless you get lucky and the judge in your case is a Part 107 pilot and has some sympathy for you, most local judges are going to look at the UM Ordinance (and only it) and say "guilty" - even if you lawyer (and you better have one) reads the FAA regulations to them.

Maybe, but in Michigan judges have been pretty fair in overturning city drone bans. It would probably be the same with a university. It would still be an drain - time, money and headaches.

It's odd that so many law enforcement officers are so eager to punish people for exercising their rights.