Sudden, often unexpected, close proximity to police helicopters creates unique challenges for drone operators.

[cgmaxed]

I frequently fly my drone at night when police helicopters are often most active. I live in the City limits of Naples, Florida. They are very responsive and aggressive to burglary, trespassing and other complaints. They even respond to drone operators for some reason. Even those flying legally. There is an article on this forum, where the police are quoted as saying, ""We (police heli pilots) have to be vigilant in our scanning during flying and we have to take evasive action when we can," Lt. Harris said. "If you see a police helicopter or any aircraft that’s at a lower altitude, land the drone." LANDING A DRONE IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE. This Lt Harris is apparently clueless regarding drone operations. If a drone and operator are too far away from each other, the drone can't land safely. The signal will likely cut out when the drone goes below the tree line. This will cause the drone to perform a Return Home Maneuver. Simply landing your drone, may result in it's loss, an accident, or crash. Drone operators also have the problem of trying to determine a police helicopters path. They are constantly circling and turning which often appears random. All i can think of doing, is lower my drone to the edge of it's signal limits and fly in the opposite direction away from the helicopter as well as flying in a direction toward my location. Then there is the problem, when a police helicopter decides to follow your drone. Why they sometimes do this, when a drone operator is flying legally, is beyond me. They have done it to me. I just kept flying away from them. They thought I was evading them. That was hardly the case. I was following the law to avoid manned aircraft, but they just kept getting closer. Who is playing chicken then. I couldn't land because, I would have landed in a swamp, a private residence (trespass) or in the middle of a street. Plus, the drone would likely lose it's signal with the controller. Risks I won't take. Anyway, nothing came of my encounters with police helicopters. I just fly as low I can, fly away from what I think is their flight path and fly in a direction toward my home point, slowly reducing my altitude to the lowest level i can, avoiding trees, house roofs and telephone wires. That's about 80 ft. I can only hope a police helicopter won't fly that low.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I guess this is why many (most ?) countries with drone legislation don't allow night flights for the general hobbyist.
I've always been very surprised that in the US it is legal for non part 107 to fly at night, and make part 107 apply.
To me, that seems backwards.

The temptation to try some night flying is high, city lights etc (where outside airspace within manned aircraft limits), though I have done one short, low night flight in a very remote area to film our campfire from above when out 'bush'.

We also have VLOS rules that keep us fairly close, and sure strobes can assist in seeing roughly where drone is, but at night orientation is much harder (particularly in regards to other aircraft), including what's seen on the display device.

I guess fly as safely as you can.
Maybe talk to the local LE heli section and ask why they seem to like putting their helis so close to a drone that's trying to avoid being near them.

 

[Meta4]

Then there is the problem, when a police helicopter decides to follow your drone. Why they sometimes do this, when a drone operator is flying legally, is beyond me. They have done it to me. I just kept flying away from them. They thought I was evading them. That was hardly the case. I was following the law to avoid manned aircraft, but they just kept getting closer.

How do you know what they thought?
The police helicopter can fly about 4 x the drone's speed so you'd have no chance to outrun them.
They probably never even knew your drone was there.

 

[Dale D]

I frequently fly my drone at night when police helicopters are often most active. I live in the City limits of Naples, Florida. They are very responsive and aggressive to burglary, trespassing and other complaints. They even respond to drone operators for some reason. Even those flying legally. There is an article on this forum, where the police are quoted as saying, ""We (police heli pilots) have to be vigilant in our scanning during flying and we have to take evasive action when we can," Lt. Harris said. "If you see a police helicopter or any aircraft that’s at a lower altitude, land the drone." LANDING A DRONE IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE. This Lt Harris is apparently clueless regarding drone operations. If a drone and operator are too far away from each other, the drone can't land safely. The signal will likely cut out when the drone goes below the tree line. This will cause the drone to perform a Return Home Maneuver. Simply landing your drone, may result in it's loss, an accident, or crash. Drone operators also have the problem of trying to determine a police helicopters path. They are constantly circling and turning which often appears random. All i can think of doing, is lower my drone to the edge of it's signal limits and fly in the opposite direction away from the helicopter as well as flying in a direction toward my location. Then there is the problem, when a police helicopter decides to follow your drone. Why they sometimes do this, when a drone operator is flying legally, is beyond me. They have done it to me. I just kept flying away from them. They thought I was evading them. That was hardly the case. I was following the law to avoid manned aircraft, but they just kept getting closer. Who is playing chicken then. I couldn't land because, I would have landed in a swamp, a private residence (trespass) or in the middle of a street. Plus, the drone would likely lose it's signal with the controller. Risks I won't take. Anyway, nothing came of my encounters with police helicopters. I just fly as low I can, fly away from what I think is their flight path and fly in a direction toward my home point, slowly reducing my altitude to the lowest level i can, avoiding trees, house roofs and telephone wires. That's about 80 ft. I can only hope a police helicopter won't fly that low.

It is truly a dilemma. I would say that you probably should not try to fly too far away from your take off point. If I flew at night, (which I don't), I would only put the drone straight up above me and fly very close to that spot. So in the event you hear an approaching helicopter, you can merely pull down the left stick and land.I would imagine that flying at night in such a police-aggressive environment, would be inadvisable.

 

[BigAl07]

If you're flying so far away that you can't See & Avoid then you're not flying by the Regulations. If you even remotely think you are going to cause an incident with a Manned Aircraft you have the CSC option. Yes this could create another incident but you are obligated to See and AVOID Manned aircraft period!!

I gotta say your attitude and actions (if they are indeed as you describe) would probably fall under gross negligence and reckless behavior. If you KNOW there is Manned Aircraft activity in the area and you still fly in such a way as to potentially have an incident, you are the problem.

I hope you seriously reconsider flying in the area you mention as to NOT become the first UAS operator to bring down a Manned Helicopter. Remember those aircraft have LIVIING PEOPLE on board and regardless of what your thoughts are they have FULL RIGHT OF WAY! If you have to land in a swamp, field, person's yard SO BE IT!

 

[Dale D]

If you're flying so far away that you can't See & Avoid then you're not flying by the Regulations. If you even remotely think you are going to cause an incident with a Manned Aircraft you have the CSC option. Yes this could create another incident but you are obligated to See and AVOID Manned aircraft period!!

I gotta say your attitude and actions (if they are indeed as you describe) would probably fall under gross negligence and reckless behavior. If you KNOW there is Manned Aircraft activity in the area and you still fly in such a way as to potentially have an incident, you are the problem.

I hope you seriously reconsider flying in the area you mention as to NOT become the first UAS operator to bring down a Manned Helicopter. Remember those aircraft have LIVIING PEOPLE on board and regardless of what your thoughts are they have FULL RIGHT OF WAY! If you have to land in a swamp, field, person's yard SO BE IT!

Yes- agree totally with A107. Not really worth it no matter what a great shot you are going to get. You should really take notice of the qualifications following BigA107's post.Better safe than sorry.

 

[Maviac]

There are certainly places, or at least one in particular, where I can legally fly but have elected not to because of the volume of helicopters (a downtown area over a park with lots of hospital and police helicopters). I never really paid attention to them before flying my drone there, but came down quickly because I noticed the volume of air traffic. It's a really nice place to fly, but not worth the risk.

 

[Droniac]

I frequently fly my drone at night when police helicopters are often most active. I live in the City limits of Naples, Florida. They are very responsive and aggressive to burglary, trespassing and other complaints. They even respond to drone operators for some reason. Even those flying legally. There is an article on this forum, where the police are quoted as saying, ""We (police heli pilots) have to be vigilant in our scanning during flying and we have to take evasive action when we can," Lt. Harris said. "If you see a police helicopter or any aircraft that’s at a lower altitude, land the drone." LANDING A DRONE IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE. This Lt Harris is apparently clueless regarding drone operations. If a drone and operator are too far away from each other, the drone can't land safely. The signal will likely cut out when the drone goes below the tree line. This will cause the drone to perform a Return Home Maneuver. Simply landing your drone, may result in it's loss, an accident, or crash. Drone operators also have the problem of trying to determine a police helicopters path. They are constantly circling and turning which often appears random. All i can think of doing, is lower my drone to the edge of it's signal limits and fly in the opposite direction away from the helicopter as well as flying in a direction toward my location. Then there is the problem, when a police helicopter decides to follow your drone. Why they sometimes do this, when a drone operator is flying legally, is beyond me. They have done it to me. I just kept flying away from them. They thought I was evading them. That was hardly the case. I was following the law to avoid manned aircraft, but they just kept getting closer. Who is playing chicken then. I couldn't land because, I would have landed in a swamp, a private residence (trespass) or in the middle of a street. Plus, the drone would likely lose it's signal with the controller. Risks I won't take. Anyway, nothing came of my encounters with police helicopters. I just fly as low I can, fly away from what I think is their flight path and fly in a direction toward my home point, slowly reducing my altitude to the lowest level i can, avoiding trees, house roofs and telephone wires. That's about 80 ft. I can only hope a police helicopter won't fly that low.

Firstly that must have been a truly trippy experience! My son ARMY helicopter McArthur air base told me drop altitude in place as quickly as possible and they recognize it as a “yield.” I was a flight medic for Stonybrook Medical Center on Bell Jet Rangers. It’s run by Suffolk county police but using University Hospital Medic who have no love for drones either. Dylan told me to Drop altitude quickly in place. Hmmmm. Seems his crew works In tandem with the coast guard dolphins off our shores, who also do not have any particular love for drones. Kinda figured the same.
What’s new to me and I found interesting is I recently researched Grumman who had the F-14 contract and has since been closed many years would be a great place... possibly? It was purchased by a Pennsylvania based company, inc’d out of Brooklyn (yes Brooklyn is in da house). Turns out it’s noted as being the largest deal on Long island in twenty years via my research. I unknowingly figured it’s nirvana with an unused airstrip. How naive I am. Lol. This company who has their own security force and is “private enterprise” @on private secured property builds drones. Couldn’t get much more info from the security guys but they were not rent-a-cop types. I’m not done with Frank and Dan at front security yet. Lol. Although they mentioned a French made “helicopter drone type one manned vehicle”. Update to follow. Maybe. If others know anything on this please post. Godspeed

 

[cgmaxed]

How do you know what they thought?
The police helicopter can fly about 4 x the drone's speed so you'd have no chance to outrun them.
They probably never even knew your drone was there.

They knew. They knocked on my door minutes later and asked me why I was moving away from the helicopter.

 

[BigAl07]

They knew. They knocked on my door minutes later and asked me why I was moving away from the helicopter.

Was this Collier county or Naples city police? I'd like to reach out to them or have one of my FAA Associates in the Naples area make contact with them.

Any idea of the general date of this incident?

 

[iReviewFrozenDinners]

I think it's just prudent to lower altitude to a safe lower limit and hover until a helicopter passes even if it's way out of the way.

If it's flying or doing patterns anywhere near where I'm flying, I'll just land it and either wait it out or relocate. Last thing I'd wanna do is have any incident with any heli, let alone a police one. That just sounds like a death warrant.

 

[cgmaxed]

Was this Collier county or Naples city police? I'd like to reach out to them or have one of my FAA Associates in the Naples area make contact with them.

Any idea of the general date of this incident?

It was collier county police, over 1.5 years ago. The neighbors called them, which resulted in the police helicopter visiting the neighborhood. I was clueless. I had know idea they were looking for me. After I gave them copies of florida statutes and FAA statutes plus my recreational ID and reg, they simply left, wrote up a report and it ended. No charges were pursued.

 

[Guido Cangelosi]

I frequently fly my drone at night when police helicopters are often most active. I live in the City limits of Naples, Florida. They are very responsive and aggressive to burglary, trespassing and other complaints. They even respond to drone operators for some reason. Even those flying legally. There is an article on this forum, where the police are quoted as saying, ""We (police heli pilots) have to be vigilant in our scanning during flying and we have to take evasive action when we can," Lt. Harris said. "If you see a police helicopter or any aircraft that’s at a lower altitude, land the drone." LANDING A DRONE IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE. This Lt Harris is apparently clueless regarding drone operations. If a drone and operator are too far away from each other, the drone can't land safely. The signal will likely cut out when the drone goes below the tree line. This will cause the drone to perform a Return Home Maneuver. Simply landing your drone, may result in it's loss, an accident, or crash. Drone operators also have the problem of trying to determine a police helicopters path. They are constantly circling and turning which often appears random. All i can think of doing, is lower my drone to the edge of it's signal limits and fly in the opposite direction away from the helicopter as well as flying in a direction toward my location. Then there is the problem, when a police helicopter decides to follow your drone. Why they sometimes do this, when a drone operator is flying legally, is beyond me. They have done it to me. I just kept flying away from them. They thought I was evading them. That was hardly the case. I was following the law to avoid manned aircraft, but they just kept getting closer. Who is playing chicken then. I couldn't land because, I would have landed in a swamp, a private residence (trespass) or in the middle of a street. Plus, the drone would likely lose it's signal with the controller. Risks I won't take. Anyway, nothing came of my encounters with police helicopters. I just fly as low I can, fly away from what I think is their flight path and fly in a direction toward my home point, slowly reducing my altitude to the lowest level i can, avoiding trees, house roofs and telephone wires. That's about 80 ft. I can only hope a police helicopter won't fly that low.

I believe you have done the right thing.
Considering the challenge and risk of accident I would have filed an AirProx report to the FAA/CAA detailing the above.
The AirProx would be useful to identify the helicopter - FAA/CAA are in a position to check with the police to see who was the pilot at that time and place.
For the very least, this would encourage the police to be thinking about what is the best thing to do to minimise risk.

 

[cgmaxed]

If you're flying so far away that you can't See & Avoid then you're not flying by the Regulations. If you even remotely think you are going to cause an incident with a Manned Aircraft you have the CSC option. Yes this could create another incident but you are obligated to See and AVOID Manned aircraft period!!

I gotta say your attitude and actions (if they are indeed as you describe) would probably fall under gross negligence and reckless behavior. If you KNOW there is Manned Aircraft activity in the area and you still fly in such a way as to potentially have an incident, you are the problem.

I hope you seriously reconsider flying in the area you mention as to NOT become the first UAS operator to bring down a Manned Helicopter. Remember those aircraft have LIVIING PEOPLE on board and regardless of what your thoughts are they have FULL RIGHT OF WAY! If you have to land in a swamp, field, person's yard SO BE IT!

You said, "If you're flying so far away that you can't See & Avoid then you're not flying by the Regulations." Sorry I implied I was flying far away. I was simply flying 100-200 feet over a 6 square block area from the second story balcony of my house. I can see more than most from that height. I had LAANC approval, due to my proximity to a small public airport nearby. The police tend to use it as practice training sometimes. I said, Sometimes. Most nights are very quiet, without an aircraft in the sky. I believe that night, was more about neighbors complaining, due to a low flying drone. I did not fly far away or very high, due to the possibility of air traffic close by. But when you have a police helicopter fly over a nearby set of tree tops at 85 mph, and not making a sound due to the tree cover, you only have 5 seconds to "HEAR, then SEE and AVOID". Or at least lower altitude as fast as possible. It's a drone for Cs sake. You don't come flying out of no where, in some crazy attack mode just because someone is flying their drone over their own neighborhood. Come to think of it, if I were further away, I would have more time to react to an approaching helicopter. Not one that is using low lying tree cover and houses to diminish the sound of the approaching chopper. I can see a helicopter doing that sort of approach to catch a burglar on the ground, but to risk impact with a drone that is only a few hundred feet from it's operator is a little overzealous. A helicopter shouldn't sneak up on a drone, the drone operator needs at least a few seconds to assess the situation and respond appropriately.

 

[BigAl07]

You said, "If you're flying so far away that you can't See & Avoid then you're not flying by the Regulations." Sorry I implied I was flying far away. I was simply flying 100-200 feet over a 6 square block area from the second story balcony of my house. I can see more than most from that height. I had LAANC approval, due to my proximity to a small public airport nearby. The police tend to use it as practice training sometimes. I said, Sometimes. Most nights are very quiet, without an aircraft in the sky. I believe that night, was more about neighbors complaining, due to a low flying drone. I did not fly far away or very high, due to the possibility of air traffic close by. But when you have a police helicopter fly over a nearby set of tree tops at 85 mph, and not making a sound due to the tree cover, you only have 5 seconds to "HEAR, then SEE and AVOID". Or at least lower altitude as fast as possible. It's a drone for Cs sake. You don't come flying out of no where, in some crazy attack mode just because someone is flying their drone over their own neighborhood. Come to think of it, if I were further away, I would have more time to react to an approaching helicopter. Not one that is using low lying tree cover and houses to diminish the sound of the approaching chopper. I can see a helicopter doing that sort of approach to catch a burglar on the ground, but to risk impact with a drone that is only a few hundred feet from it's operator is a little overzealous. A helicopter shouldn't sneak up on a drone, the drone operator needs at least a few seconds to assess the situation and respond appropriately.

With all due respect I'm calling bologna on this whole scenario. You honestly think your local PD is dispatching a Manned Helicopter to chase/harass your drone over a neighbors complaint? Do you realize the EXPENSE and EFFORT that would entail? Not only that, but they are dispatching a MANNED aircraft to a scene of Unmanned Aircraft activity when the proper procedure for a UAS sighting is to CLEAR THE AREA of all MANNED aircraft. If they clear the air due to UAS activity during an official EMERGENCY, you expect us to believe they are going to dispatch a MANNED aircraft into a suspected UAS area because of a neighbors complaint? Do you see the absurdity of this claim?

For the record, I have asked the FSDO in Miramar FL to reach out to the Naples PD about this matter. If they are indeed dispatching a MANNED aircraft to track down a drone they might need to re-evaluate their procedures.

 

[cgmaxed]

With all due respect I'm calling bologna on this whole scenario. You honestly think your local PD is dispatching a Manned Helicopter to chase/harass your drone over a neighbors complaint? Do you realize the EXPENSE and EFFORT that would entail? Not only that, but they are dispatching a MANNED aircraft to a scene of Unmanned Aircraft activity when the proper procedure for a UAS sighting is to CLEAR THE AREA of all MANNED aircraft. If they clear the air due to UAS activity during an official EMERGENCY, you expect us to believe they are going to dispatch a MANNED aircraft into a suspected UAS area because of a neighbors complaint? Do you see the absurdity of this claim?

For the record, I have asked the FSDO in Miramar FL to reach out to the Naples PD about this matter. If they are indeed dispatching a MANNED aircraft to track down a drone they might need to re-evaluate their procedures.

Well, they did it. Once. Perhaps the neighbor's complaint didn't indicate a drone. Maybe, the neighbor and dispatch misinterpreted what was said.. Who knows. But they it did happen. But, only that one time. And I agree, the time, money and effort makes no sense. I had 5 police cars pull up to my house. They all seemed pretty embarrassed afterwards and left in a hurry. It was a very strange moment. I hope you can find a record of it or find someone that remembers it. P.S. It was collier county, but in Naples City Limits, Near, but not on Marco Island. The Street is Port Au Prince Blvd off Collier Blvd. I live in the only 2 story house, but most residences are simply one story Florida style Retirement Trailers. I think the chopper may have come from the Marco Island Executive Airport nearby, but I can't be sure.

 

[Chip]

I hope you can find a record of it or find someone that remembers it.

You can and should make a public records request to Naples Police department or any other agency involved. Here is link to Naples PD page with instructions. All you need to do is email a request for:

All incident or investigative reports, photos, witness statements or any other document relating to an incident or investigation involving (your name) on (date) at or near (your address).

Records Services | Naples, Florida

 

[cgmaxed]

You can and should make a public records request to Naples Police department or any other agency involved. Here is link to Naples PD page with instructions. All you need to do is email a request for:

All incident or investigative reports, photos, witness statements or any other document relating to an incident or investigation involving (your name) on (date) at or near (your address).

Records Services | Naples, Florida

Thanks. I might do that. If i can get it, i'll post whatever I can get.

 

[cgmaxed]

You can and should make a public records request to Naples Police department or any other agency involved. Here is link to Naples PD page with instructions. All you need to do is email a request for:

All incident or investigative reports, photos, witness statements or any other document relating to an incident or investigation involving (your name) on (date) at or near (your address).

Records Services | Naples, Florida

I just made the request for the incident records. I had to go through the Collier county records dept. If , with any luck, I get them, I'll post what I can. I'm not sure how long it will take. I've never done this before. Should be an interesting read, if they find the reports.

 

[Lets Fly]

I would only put the drone straight up above me and fly very close to that spot. So in the event you hear an approaching helicopter, you can merely pull down the left stick and land

Thats exactly what I do, if I want to see another area with the lights, go there and go straight up. The lights look the same from there anyway.