The Age of the Drone Police Is Here (WIRED)

[anotherlab]

Wired posted an article on how the Chula Vista Police Department has been using drones as first responders. It's well-researched and shows how the PD has been pretty open with the usage. They have a portal that logs the flights, shows the path, case number, and reason for the flight.

The article is behind a paywall at The Age of the Drone Police Is Here.
It can be accessed via 12ft.io

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

I am surprised that they publish the flight route and address.

 

[mavic3usa]

They have been hiding some of their drone flights in the past and likely still doing so. Obviously they will never disclose everywhere they are flying their drone when they spy and follow the public and good luck with seeing any of the drone footage with a public records request and likely even with a court order. Beginnings of what is already a police state.

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[Chip]

Okay, this is a goldmine of an article with incredible links. Skydio critics take note:

"The mastermind behind Chula Vista’s drone program, retired Capt. William “Fritz” Reber, is the head of public safety integration at Skydio, a drone company started by MIT grad students. Reber said he was offered a job at Skydio while continuing to help with Chula Vista’s drone program after he retired.

“They said, ‘Hey, we’re gonna sell these drones to police officers. Would you being willing to work with us as a consultant and go with our sales team so you sort of talk cop talk and speak the language and build the bridge between the consumer and the producer?’” Reber recalled.

Retiring from the police force in 2018 has not stopped Reber from using his former department as an “incubator” to expand drone programs to police departments across the country.

Emails obtained by Forbes through a Freedom of Information Act request show hundreds of exchanges between Reber and Chula Vista Police Department officials coordinating tours of the drone program and drafting federal waivers to expand drone use. A self-proclaimed “influencer in the public safety space,” Reber joined the team at Skydio a year after leaving Chula Vista. Now, Reber’s job is to sell Skydio drones to police departments around the country, and he does that in part by leveraging his ties to Chula Vista."

It was the FAA who gave Chula Vista permission to fly BVLOS. And one of those linked articles indicates it was the FAA who got Skydio's foot in the Chula Vista door.

 

[anotherlab]

I am surprised that they publish the flight route and address.

To be as transparent as they can be about the process. There's no reason to hide where the drones go.

 

[Cafguy]

At least I will get some kind of response besides " We are Busy"
If you call 911 in Bakersfield CA. they aint comin and if you keep calling they will come.....To arrest you for misuse of the 911 system. some kind of acknowledgement will be nice at least.

 

[mavic3usa]

To be as transparent as they can be about the process. There's no reason to hide where the drones go.

They have every reason to hide because they are up to no good. No police department in California is truly transparent. Let's be realistic, unless the people control the drones (not the police) this is going to turn out bad for everyone.

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[jaja6009]

These police programs are referred to as DFR, (Drone as a First Responder). There are now well into the double digits of public safety organizations doing this.

In my city, we are looking at starting an entry level DFR. A well written ConOps (Concept of Operations) with a Blanket COA can allow for missions over people, cars, Tactical BVLOS and BVLOS. All of the programs that I have actually talked to a person involved do not have active surveillance in their program. The drones only respond to certain public safety incidents, it does not just hover and "spy".

 

[mavic3usa]

At least I will get some kind of response besides " We are Busy"
If you call 911 in Bakersfield CA. they aint comin and if you keep calling they will come.....To arrest you for misuse of the 911 system. some kind of acknowledgement will be nice at least.

The drones may start to come out at first but eventually they too will be too busy. Take a page from NYC, get everyone use to drones doing good things for the first year or two, then along comes a major incident and drones are suddenly re-tasked....permanently. Can't let all that good technology go to waste.

 

[mavic3usa]

All of the programs that I have actually talked to a person involved do not have active surveillance in their program. The drones only respond to certain public safety incidents, it does not just hover and "spy".

Not yet. Eventually that is where this leads. Would you be against a state law that says police departments are prohibited from "hovering" and "spying" and any official who pilots a drone for that purpose is guilty of felony with mandatory prison time? Or will such a bill get fought and pushed down and railed against because the ultimate goal is to one day [mis]use those drones for exactly that: spying on the public, gathering and collecting information on the public, tracking the public, etc. all in the name of preventing future crimes.

 

[Zeke]

IMO, a whole bunch of teeth grinding and hand wringing over nothing. I don't break the law so I have nothing to fear. In fact, I'd much rather have police track a carjacker or criminal safely from the skies as opposed to a high speed chase in the street. Bring them on!

 

[MS Coast]

They have been hiding some of their drone flights in the past and likely still doing so. Obviously they will never disclose everywhere they are flying their drone when they spy and follow the public and good luck with seeing any of the drone footage with a public records request and likely even with a court order. Beginnings of what is already a police state.

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Wow. Zero to police state in under six seconds.

 

[mavic3usa]

IMO, a whole bunch of teeth grinding and hand wringing over nothing. I don't break the law so I have nothing to fear. In fact, I'd much rather have police track a carjacker or criminal safely from the skies as opposed to a high speed chase in the street. Bring them on!

The police disagree with you, they love the chase and will *never* allow drones to conduct a high speed chase as primary. Even when drones prove they can do so safely, won't be allowed to take over. Why do you think we still have high speed chases today after 10, 20, 50 years? No tech available, no good ideas; just waiting for drones to take over and come along and solve all our problems? Drone will be rejected just like all the other proposed tech. Look, I'd rather have them chasing and fighting bad guys but honestly, that's not the role they shine in the most.

 

[mavic3usa]

Wow. Zero to police state in under six seconds.

In my opinion, the definition of a police state is when the police tell the citizens what to do and not the other way around. We have that is many pockets in this country, not everywhere. And it's fluid so it's back and forth who has the most control. Depends. I see the drone as a game changer; whoever controls the drones will win the battle. Police aren't there yet but they are going in that direction because they can see what's coming, they aren't blind whereas the general public has no clue (until it's too late). Then, there's a real police state. You know you have the beginnings of a police state when the police tell the citizens what drone videos they will release and which ones they won't.

 

[Torque]

Not yet. Eventually that is where this leads. Would you be against a state law that says police departments are prohibited from "hovering" and "spying" and any official who pilots a drone for that purpose is guilty of felony with mandatory prison time? Or will such a bill get fought and pushed down and railed against because the ultimate goal is to one day [mis]use those drones for exactly that: spying on the public, gathering and collecting information on the public, tracking the public, etc. all in the name of preventing future crimes.

I'm excited to hear you have a new focal point for your fear mongering, Sky is Falling, predictions of our future.

 

[mavic3usa]

I'm excited to hear you have a new focal point for your fear mongering, Sky is Falling, predictions of our future.

Let this "drone" usage soak in:

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[MS Coast]

In my opinion, the definition of a police state is when the police tell the citizens what to do and not the other way around. We have that is many pockets in this country, not everywhere. And it's fluid so it's back and forth who has the most control. Depends. I see the drone as a game changer; whoever controls the drones will win the battle. Police aren't there yet but they are going in that direction because they can see what's coming, they aren't blind whereas the general public has no clue (until it's too late). Then, there's a real police state. You know you have the beginnings of a police state when the police tell the citizens what drone videos they will release and which ones they won't.

So, we clueless citizens are in a battle with the police and they know what's coming, so they're equipping themselves with drones? Do you have a plan worked our for the citizenry to use drones to gain control and defeat the police in this battle? Does it include violent actions or just out-flying them and posting more videos on Youtube than them?

Is the fact that the police tell the public what body camera footage they're going to release equally distressing to you? How about the way they don't reveal all the evidence they have while a criminal investigation is in progress?

 

[MS Coast]

Let this "drone" usage soak in:

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The outrageous thing in that video is that some insurance companies are cancelling homeowner's policies because of streaks and stains on the roof. Let that sink in.

Yes, they used a drone to photograph the roof instead of sending a guy with a camera out to have a look. If you're looking for stained roofs, a drone is a more effective way to proceed. But the photography method is incidental to the real story.

 

[mavic3usa]

So, we clueless citizens are in a battle with the police and they know what's coming, so they're equipping themselves with drones? Do you have a plan worked our for the citizenry to use drones to gain control and defeat the police in this battle? Does it include violent actions or just out-flying them and posting more videos on Youtube than them?

Is the fact that the police tell the public what body camera footage they're going to release equally distressing to you? How about the way they don't reveal all the evidence they have while a criminal investigation is in progress?

I don't have anything further to discuss at this time but it's not an actual battle. Unfortunately I cannot discuss the plans to go forward, just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[mavic3usa]

The outrageous thing in that video is that some insurance companies are cancelling homeowner's policies because of streaks and stains on the roof. Let that sink in.

Yes, they used a drone to photograph the roof instead of sending a guy with a camera out to have a look. If you're looking for stained roofs, a drone is a more effective way to proceed. But the photography method is incidental to the real story.

My point is drones are not effectively used against the bad guys; drones will be primarily used against the honest, law-abiding citizens. Would you support a state law prohibiting insurance companies who do business in that state from using drones to collect information to be used in such a decision and only use drones in case of a claim with the consent of the homeowner; if an insurance company does this illegal act the penalty is $1M per image taken?