The Statue of Liberty with my Mavic

[m0j0]

Commercial is harder because you have to actually know what airspace you are in, which requires some learning about sectional charts, airspace classifications, etc. Also, keep in mind that if you are in other than Class G, you have to actually obtain permission from ATC (I think recreational only requires you to "notify" ATC).

That's close but not entirely correct.

 

[m0j0]

You can fly in class E as well, unless the class E airspace touches the surface. So E is a maybe.

 

[m0j0]

Nice video by the way.

 

[borislip]

You can fly in class E as well, unless the class E airspace touches the surface. So E is a maybe.

But if it doesn't "touch the surface", then it's class G there, from the surface to class E, isn't it?

 

[borislip]

Note to self: "learn to read those dаmn charts properly"

 

[kodiak1120]

You can fly in class E as well, unless the class E airspace touches the surface. So E is a maybe.

That true, unless the Class E goes to the ground, like around Class E airports.

 

[m0j0]

Well yes at the surface.... but there are instances (part 107) where you could legally be filming at 700 feet agl which could be glass E airspace above the class G. This is why it is best to understand you need ATC for B,C,D and E when the class E airspace touches the ground.

For instance if you are filming a 600 foot (AGL) tower in an area where class E starts at 700 feet. When you are within 400 feet of the tower you could legally be at 1000 feet AGL. That would place your bird clearly in Class E airspace. Under these circumstances no ATC authorization would be required. Of course the other limitations still apply... VLOS, not over people.

 

[msinger]

Of course the other limitations still apply... VLOS, not over people.

@kodiak1120, how did you manage to get a waiver for these rules?

 

[DroneDoc]

Nice, but not worth the risk.

 

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Great video. Can be on dji's commercial.

 

[JROK]

Unfortunately the flight was not legal. Why? All drone "Overhead Flights" are banned in the NPS (from the floor up). However, there is a procedure that will allow the flight. First, you must be a Part 107 / 333 operator to show compantency (to the NPS). Second, you must apply for a "Special Use Permit" - This is a time consuming process and you must state your purpose ( and least show your a commercial operator for profit); also the date and time of the scheduled flight. Before asking for the permit, check the sectional charts and TAC - you may need a waver from the FAA. In this case, Lady Liberty is 315 ft/msl and the shelf for the class b airspace over her has a 500ft floor to 7000ft ceiling so are your safe there. But, there are 17 non expiry TFR's for the entire bay. Most are for medivac operations. So unless you have an agreement with all of them, you will also need to call everyone of them prior to the flight and, unless your a 107 operator, they will say no and hang up. The work-around is to install a ADS-b on your Mavic for ~$2k so they will know you are there in an event of a type 2 incident (in route to medivac someone) and you must practice SAA this will keep you out of trouble with the FAA. Please do your research before flying. Us remote pilots need to be diligent or the restrictions will become more binding making our jobs more difficult to be safe and in compliance. I specialize in flying in the NPS regulated under the Dept. Of Interior and fly in Congressional Wilderness Areas. There is strict protocol to do so and the NPS and NFS fine is $1000 - And that's before having to answer to a Part 65 judge.

 

[borislip]

The bottom line is, as a hobbyist, either don't fly at all, or break a shiтload of laws and don't get caught. There is NO realistic way to obey the laws and still fly. And, sadly, this is becoming the case pretty much everywhere.

 

[JROK]

The bottom line is, as a hobbyist, either don't fly at all, or break a shiтload of laws and don't get caught. There is NO realistic way to obey the laws and still fly. And, sadly, this is becoming the case pretty much everywhere.

Sad and true. Just plan sucks.

 

[borislip]

Unfortunately the flight was not legal. Why? All drone "Overhead Flights" are banned in the NPS (from the floor up). However, there is a procedure that will allow the flight. First, you must be a Part 107 / 333 operator to show compantency (to the NPS). Second, you must apply for a "Special Use Permit" - This is a time consuming process and you must state your purpose ( and least show your a commercial operator for profit); also the date and time of the scheduled flight. Before asking for the permit, check the sectional charts and TAC - you may need a waver from the FAA. In this case, Lady Liberty is 315 ft/msl and the shelf for the class b airspace over her has a 500ft floor to 7000ft ceiling so are your safe there. But, there are 17 non expiry TFR's for the entire bay. Most are for medivac operations. So unless you have an agreement with all of them, you will also need to call everyone of them prior to the flight and, unless your a 107 operator, they will say no and hang up. The work-around is to install a ADS-b on your Mavic for ~$2k so they will know you are there in an event of a type 2 incident (in route to medivac someone) and you must practice SAA this will keep you out of trouble with the FAA. Please do your research before flying. Us remote pilots need to be diligent or the restrictions will become more binding making our jobs more difficult to be safe and in compliance. I specialize in flying in the NPS regulated under the Dept. Of Interior and fly in Congressional Wilderness Areas. There is strict protocol to do so and the NPS and NFS fine is $1000 - And that's before having to answer to a Part 65 judge.

Lets see...

Lets see..

1. Part 107 exam costs $150, valid for just 2 years, and gives a hobbyist absolutely nothing in return.
2. Getting a special use permit from an NPS costs $100 per application, application should be LONG in advance, and you are not too likely to get approved.
3. There is no realistic real-time way for an average Joe (me and other hobbyist) to check TFRs and notify the related entities.
4. Install an ADS-b transponder on a drone? Really? I wonder whats gonna happens the moment ATCs actually see that. And, as you've already mentioned, it's way too expensive for an average Joe (on the same note... try and tell DJI to integrate ADS-b and implement TCAS, lol).

The bottom line is, again, either don't fly, or fly and don't get caught. And for that, know what laws you break in the first place.

BTW, i have yet to understand whats the deals with NPS banning drones. Why do they care???

 

[cardplayer71]

Lets see...

...

BTW, i have yet to understand whats the deals with NPS banning drones. Why do they care???

I love my drones, but I am also an avid visitor of national parks, and am an outdoorsman.

Nobody wants to see drones flying around the splendor of the scenery. Nobody wants to hear what sounds like an angry nest of bees while contemplating the beauty of a backcountry lake. Nobody wants the ecosystem damaged or littered by crashed drones that cannot be safely retrieved without imperiling the retrievers.

In short, as much as I'd like a drone video of my upcoming King's Canyon backpacking adventures, or as much as I would love aerial shots of the Grand Prismatic spring in Yellowstone, I also don't want to see drones there. Sorry.

Some moron already crashed a drone in Grand Prismatic. There was concern that the dissolution of it could upset the fragile balance that keeps the bacteria alive which create the colors. Luckily, this did not happen. Not a week ago, another moron caused an elk stampede with a drone at the national preserve outside of Jackson, Wyoming. The animals there are under enough stress because of habitat destruction and the gradual cordoning and blocking of their normal wintering land. They don't need to be bothered by drones.

Hopefully this illustrates why NPS has a generally unfavorable view of this activity.

Regards,
cardplayer71

 

[mminardi]

I love all the drone Police comments who have no idea what the rules actually are, lol.

VLOS, and not operating in an public area, when you did a fly over. Basic rules set out for drones in this class.

The video looks great, but at what cost to the rest of us? When someone gets caught trying to fly in the grey area of definitions.

 

[borislip]

A drone flying above some 150..200 feet no longer ruins the scenery for anyone, nor audible to a human and like most animal ears. Speaking about ecosystem damage, a passing car probably does way more damage than a crashed drone, except in special circumstances. And, if you can see a crashed drone, its probably not big deal to retrieve (hook it up with another drone?). You should NOT fly directly over Grand Prismatic just like you don't fly directly over a big crowd of people!

Drones should be regulated, operators flying recklessly should be held responsible for that. But banning drones entirely is a major and sad overkill.

 

[borislip]

VLOS...

Kinda wondering whats the definition of VLOS... assuming you can still see a tiny little dot, but no longer able to see the orientation without actually flying forward and seeing where it goes... is it still in VLOS?

 

[cardplayer71]

A drone flying above some 150..200 feet no longer ruins the scenery for anyone, nor audible to a human and like most animal ears. Speaking about ecosystem damage, a passing car probably does way more damage than a crashed drone, except in special circumstances. And, if you can see a crashed drone, its probably not big deal to retrieve (hook it up with another drone?). You should NOT fly directly over Grand Prismatic just like you don't fly directly over a big crowd of people!

Drones should be regulated, operators flying recklessly should be held responsible for that. But banning drones entirely is a major and sad overkill.

I agree that it is sad. For instance, here in Pennsylvania, the majority of the epic scenery is of course on state-owned land. It is a major disappointment to not be able to photograph it with my copter. I'm not sure what a good solution is, because a few idiots ruin it for everyone. That seems to be how it goes with most fun things in life. I agree that these devices can be unobtrusive in certain environments. However, in the stillness of real wilderness, any such drone will be heard for miles. This is no joke. The silence in those places is incomprehensible unless you go there.

Regards,
cardplayer71

 

[JROK]

Lets see...

3. Install an ADS-b transponder on a drone? Really? I wonder whats gonna happens the moment ATCs actually see that. And, as you've already mentioned, it's way too expensive for an average Joe (on the same note... try and tell DJI to integrate ADS-b and implement TCAS, lol).
...

BTW, i have yet to understand whats the deals with NPS banning drones. Why do they care???

FYI: There’s a law on the books right now that says we need to develop “requirements for remote identification of aircraft systems” by July 15, 2017. It’s Public Law 114-190 – also known as H.R. 636 – FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016

AKA: ADS-b

Why? Spend a little time on the FFA's "Incident and Accident Data" page. You'll find that there is a handful of mid-air collisions a week in the US airspace system alone involving sUAV's.

Once the notice is finalized, we can only hope the only 2 manufacturers of the devices don't jack the price up. Also keep in mind, this is for Commercial Operators who are trained and "responsible" not for the hobbyist. However, the word is flying around Congress ( and believe me, I do know ), if hobbyist keeps acting non responsible, drone mfg's will be required to put hard limits on the UAV's. E.g. 200 ft/AGL max and 1k ft max distance - and you will have to hold a Remote License and pay to have the drone unlocked.

Guys! Please be responsible!

Oh, the the new DJI M200 series utilizes a ADS-b