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The Statue of Liberty with my Mavic

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The five mile rule is for hobbyists. Part 107 pilots fly according to airspace. No weak signal warnings. Probably because I was out over the water with nothing in between me and the drone.

This may be obvious - sorry to beat this to death....

I called the sUAS FAA people to ask if this question:

Question: "If I am Part 107 certified, but operating my drone for "fun/recreationally" - am I still required to operate according to Part 107 rules?"
Answer: "No. It's like an airline pilot on his day off flying a private aircraft. It's the operation - not the pilot that dictates which rule you follow. If you're just flying for fun - not compensation - then you only have to follow the hobbyist rules."
 
It is a National Park. It is not a NFZ. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I checked all of the sectional charts. It's Class G airspace up to 700 AGL. The rules for National Parks are only that you cannot take off or land from within. You can fly over because the National Park Service does not have jurisdiction over the airspace.
Interesting fact. That gives me new places to fly
 
Fascinating discussion! Great and brave video. Let us hope that our law makers figure out that the drone hobbiests and professionals are here to stay. Regulate us sensibley and fairly, we can deal with it.
 
I really liked this video & once again hate the restrictions imposed on flyers when quite frankly if you are there do produce a video like this - "It's why we ALL fly"....AND everyday folks who don't have the Ooooomph to fly love watching our work!
 
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Hey, GREAT video. Really, really beautiful work.

But, JROK is absolutely correct in his assessment of the illegality of overflying the Statue of Liberty and any lands in the National Park System - regardless of where you take off and land. The rule is primarily about drones in the air, not about the takeoff and landing phases of flight. Regulators and judges look at the intent of the rule. Have you ever read, "those **** drones are taking off and landing and ruining everything"? It's about the flight.

"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent."

Using your argument, a waterfowl hunter hunting from a blind adjacent to NPS land could shoot a duck flying inside of the park, as long as it was in flight.

I am a forest ecologist and have long-term ecological research (LTER) sites in a national park (and elsewhere). One of the sites was even located on a small NPS parcel isolated from the main block. We asked for permission to overfly the NPS sites and we were denied, even though the launch/recover location for the small parcel was not on NPS land. Nope.

We were told to make a request to fly in the far depths of the off-season ... which doesn't work for us since we are doing foliage studies. Because the rangers have busted several hobbyist operators over the past year alone, the superintendent is being cautious right now. Completely understandable. But it's because of illegal fliers that he's being restrictive on permissions.

Also, with all of the hysteria about terrorists using drones, it's easy to understand that the government would be on high alert and prosecute "potential threats" to American icons. Prohibition is prohibition, whether it hurts law-abiding citizens or not. Let's work to change the regs.

It's your choice to make such a flight and it's your 107 license to put at risk. You can argue airspace and insist that "banning operating from lands and water does not mean banning operating above the park" but that's not going to fly with FAA, NPS, or the courts. In some way, the mere presence of this video is taunting FAA or NPS to come after you. You've given the regulators and courts all of the evidence they need to find you, take your license, and fine you ... you've even given them the blueprint for your defense. There is no doubt that you created a lovely film - absolutely - but if I were you, I'd pull that video in a second and delete all of my comments in this forum, and get a new membership and screen name. But that's just me.

BTW, this ain't "drone police" stuff ... it's fair discussion. You can do what you want to do. As for the commenters who think that this is over-regulation, that may be the case, but this is NOT the way to get the rules changed. If you guys think that you're overburdened by the rules, how do you think that those of us who have flown long-range FPV fixed/rotor for many years feel right now? I have a fleet of 20-mile RT autonomous Pixhawk-based mapping planes that are pretty much grounded right now. But I'm not going to go and violate the law because I know I am a safe, responsible pilot with well-maintained gear and thus the rules don't apply to me. I'm going to wait for the shake-out and see where it all goes, and go for the waivers wherever and whenever possible.

Personally, I am grateful to JROK for his analysis and contribution. It was logical and well-supported. We need this kind of discussion as the business or hobby progresses. There is no need to censor such opinions.
 
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By outright forbidding flights the system actually forces you to break the law. If a more sensible approach to it like for example time slice set aside for drone pilot to enjoy the parks in their own way then there would be no problems. Drone pilots pay taxes to keep up the parks too.

This is the argument that ATV operators have tried to use in getting access to wilderness areas in the national system. It never works, as they are a tiny minority of users (and taxpayers), and they refuse to accept that wilderness areas by their very definition (1964 Wilderness Act, in the case of Wilderness Areas) are incompatible with mechanized use.
 
That is some great video you have there. Regardless of how you shot it, where you landed and took off, BLAH BLHA BLHA. You used a new toy to get great video and noone was hurt . Ignore the dronepolice (haters who are not creative enough to get what you did.)

Respectfully, this is a powerfully simplistic argument and accuses those who are thinking of the greater good (preventing more regulation and less opportunities to fly) as being without talent or the gravitas to break the law. Interestingly, the latter is directly addressed in Part 107 training/testing (the "macho" attitude).
 
I really liked this video & once again hate the restrictions imposed on flyers when quite frankly if you are there do produce a video like this - "It's why we ALL fly"....AND everyday folks who don't have the Ooooomph to fly love watching our work!

I like this aspect of photography and cinematography: it gives anyone a chance to "see" the things they may not otherwise be able to see. We can bring the world to others through our photos and videos.
 
Great video...I will leave it to the "perfect people" to judge if you should have done it. I do remember seeing a bumper sticker years ago,"Obey all the rules..and miss all the fun!"
 
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Rules & Regulations - OK don't wanna bring regulations into this but - LOOK AT THE FOOTAGE - did a great job - we ALL would love to be able to do the same thing = responsible flying is what it's all about - being able to fly & take GREAT footage for me is a priority - I don't post vids that are clearly unlawful but oh my are they beautiful...........end of story!
 
Yes, Part 107 pilots have to follow those rules too. The VLOS requirement is probably the only part of my flight that you could argue I perhaps maybe pushed the boundaries of, since I was pretty far from where I took off and although my Mavic was capable of being in my VLOS, it was pretty far away.

It's not even a question, it's a violation of Part 107 absent a waiver.
.

I launched from NJ. It was about a mile to her.


§107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight (emphasis mine)

Visual Line of Sight does not mean that there was nothing in between you and the aircraft, it means that you must be able to SEE the aircraft, which you could not do at 1mi away.


Then, as mentioned:



§107.39 Operation over human beings.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless that human being is:

(a) Directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft; or

(b) Located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.


You appear to have violated both of these.

Great video, but unless you had waivers for both 107.31 and 107.39, it was illegal. Even as a hobbyist under Part 101 where you should "avoid" overflight (under the AMA's safety code), you still must maintain VLOS at all times.


Drone Police, signing off.
 
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I break so many rules flying my Drone and I'm wondering when I will come back to me.. This footage is awesome man. Don't let anyone see you launch and you should be fine.

We all do - LOL Some intentionally and some not but DO NOT LEAVE EVIDENCE on YouTube or sites like this --- And esp. on your own biz page - Doh!
 
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It's not even a question, it's a violation of Part 107 absent a waiver.
§107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight (emphasis mine)

Visual Line of Sight does not mean that there was nothing in between you and the aircraft, it means that you must be able to SEE the aircraft, which you could not do at 1mi away.
. . .

Finally someone brought up VLOS!

I don't know why everyone is so stuck on the NPS issue (esp. the OP), its not the answer - The NPS argument that is.




... and Drone Police? Your not it but I know who is ;) LOL
 
Very cool video. Although I do not know if it is illegal, i do believe flying over crowds is frowned upon. I hope posting on youtune doesn't come back to bite you. Well done though!
 
Hey, GREAT video. Really, really beautiful work.

But, JROK is absolutely correct in his assessment of the illegality of overflying the Statue of Liberty and any lands in the National Park System - regardless of where you take off and land. The rule is primarily about drones in the air, not about the takeoff and landing phases of flight. Regulators and judges look at the intent of the rule. Have you ever read, "those **** drones are taking off and landing and ruining everything"? It's about the flight.

"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent."

Using your argument, a waterfowl hunter hunting from a blind adjacent to NPS land could shoot a duck flying inside of the park, as long as it was in flight.

I am a forest ecologist and have long-term ecological research (LTER) sites in a national park (and elsewhere). One of the sites was even located on a small NPS parcel isolated from the main block. We asked for permission to overfly the NPS sites and we were denied, even though the launch/recover location for the small parcel was not on NPS land. Nope.

We were told to make a request to fly in the far depths of the off-season ... which doesn't work for us since we are doing foliage studies. Because the rangers have busted several hobbyist operators over the past year alone, the superintendent is being cautious right now. Completely understandable. But it's because of illegal fliers that he's being restrictive on permissions.

Also, with all of the hysteria about terrorists using drones, it's easy to understand that the government would be on high alert and prosecute "potential threats" to American icons. Prohibition is prohibition, whether it hurts law-abiding citizens or not. Let's work to change the regs.

It's your choice to make such a flight and it's your 107 license to put at risk. You can argue airspace and insist that "banning operating from lands and water does not mean banning operating above the park" but that's not going to fly with FAA, NPS, or the courts. In some way, the mere presence of this video is taunting FAA or NPS to come after you. You've given the regulators and courts all of the evidence they need to find you, take your license, and fine you ... you've even given them the blueprint for your defense. There is no doubt that you created a lovely film - absolutely - but if I were you, I'd pull that video in a second and delete all of my comments in this forum, and get a new membership and screen name. But that's just me.

BTW, this ain't "drone police" stuff ... it's fair discussion. You can do what you want to do. As for the commenters who think that this is over-regulation, that may be the case, but this is NOT the way to get the rules changed. If you guys think that you're overburdened by the rules, how do you think that those of us who have flown long-range FPV fixed/rotor for many years feel right now? I have a fleet of 20-mile RT autonomous Pixhawk-based mapping planes that are pretty much grounded right now. But I'm not going to go and violate the law because I know I am a safe, responsible pilot with well-maintained gear and thus the rules don't apply to me. I'm going to wait for the shake-out and see where it all goes, and go for the waivers wherever and whenever possible.

Personally, I am grateful to JROK for his analysis and contribution. It was logical and well-supported. We need this kind of discussion as the business or hobby progresses. There is no need to censor such opinions.

You bring a very sensible argument to light. I am personally torn between getting the shot and following the rules. In general I follow the rules but sometimes the lure of a good shot pulls me right against the old line and sometimes over.
I think the overreach and overreaction of the government is upsetting to all drone operators who mean no harm whatsoever.
 
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Well DONE kodiak1120. You are a credit to the community. Respecting regulations (90% -VLOS) and still doing a great video.
I hate it to see people being bitter about a nice job. Criticizing it sometimes in makes me wonder if they aren't just jealous.
 
I was the first reply to your video and thought it was awesome . I also assumed this was some commercial drone flight with permission , lol . The shots , angles and editing were very well done . I for one would never have tried it because even though I would have liked to , my common sense would have kicked in at the very thought of flying over a National Monument being legal .

You took a risk and so far it has been ok . Someone said all you risked was losing your $1400 drone but that's not entirely accurate . If there had been a flyaway , crash etc it could very well have been a totally different story and the fact several rules were being broken at the time would have made it worse .

Still an Awesome video .
 
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Not entirely. I was at a meet the FAA yesterday. FAA says you can't take off or land from within the park; they control the ground. You can fly into a park if your starting point is outside.
Aren't drones "temporarily" banned in all national parks since 2014 till this very day? I have to admit, i wouldn't have the ***** to fly over statue of liberty, if someone wants to track me down, all one needs to do is see where i land after all.
 
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Flying over people. You sure you have a license? FAA will have no problem taking it back.
 
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