UK Drone laws

mavicpilotsnumpty · Oct 27, 2019

I would hope that nobody registers, this would then throw the entire system into chaos.

The whole thing relies on self registration. Would it not have been better to have free registration rather than the £9.99 fee as at least a small token of incentive?
From what I've read, Police, who have been briefed on the new drone registration law, have the power to make an on the spot fine for non registered Operator pilots without proof that they are even flying anything to warrant suspicion. Citing the lack of registration details is enough to create a fine/penalty, bang goes the "burden of proof" on the accuser.

So if someone is just standing there with what appears to be a drone controller in their hand but no drone in sight and then are subsequently challenged to produce their documentation but have no registration details, this apparently would be enough to fine someone. What a crock.

I would love to just stand there right outside a Police station with a controller and my mobile phone attached playing drone videos from youtube and looking up at the sky to see what the Police would do to prosecute me without proof I am flying anything and then appeal to any potential BS fine they have created without any proof I was doing anything other than watching Youtube drone videos.

gnirtS · Oct 27, 2019

The police have far better things to do than "arrest" people holding drone controllers in the street.
Yes the cost is ridiculous but it is what it is. If you spend £1500 on a drone than £10 a year isnt exactly massive.

The police are far too lacking in resources and far too sensible to waste time going around for people potentially flying drones without papers.
As most forces themselves have said, they'll act if theres a complaint but they certainly wont go around hoping and looking for offenders to fine.

mavicpilotsnumpty · Oct 27, 2019

gnirtS said:
The police have far better things to do than "arrest" people holding drone controllers in the street.
Yes the cost is ridiculous but it is what it is. If you spend £1500 on a drone than £10 a year isnt exactly massive.

The police are far too lacking in resources and far too sensible to waste time going around for people potentially flying drones without papers.
As most forces themselves have said, they'll act if theres a complaint but they certainly wont go around hoping and looking for offenders to fine.

Interesting point but way back when (post 9/11) photographers were being treated like terrorists if they happend to have a camera and be taking pictures which accidentally had government buildings in the background. I was subject to this in London more than once. I was stopped and searched and my sd card was removed from the camera as I was deemed a suspicious character on the South Bank of the Thames more than 4 miles from the nearest sensitive government building.

Police, who had nothing better to do than full-fill an obligation of new law post 9/11 were being over zealous in their duties.
Then followed many protest marches throughout London and a greater awareness of ones rights as photographers.

I now have a piece of paper with a Policemans scribble and id Number so if I get stopped I present this so I do not have to identify myself to them again. A complete waste of their and my time but it did not stop in happening many more times after that. What was I doing? Walking through London, like many other tourists, taking photos. Why was I singled out, I happened to be on the South Bank pointing my camera in the vague direction of the North bank, which allegedly had a sensitive government building in the view, oh and I was next to a Police layby with a group of bored Policemen sat in a Van.

Whenever I was in London I took a film camera so I was not able to produce an SD card. Ironically I spent more time discussion the value of my film camera and film than I would have done giving my name and address and producing a driver license and waiting for the despatch to clear me.

Stop and search procedures will be abused when a new law is in place even if there is no cause just because it exists.
Registering one-self on this new scheme will just provide details for the operator-pilot to be identified quicker and harassed more readily and the irony, you're paying for the privilege of being hassled.

I am waiting for all this to settle down and become reasonable before I buy a drone.
Hopefully buy a Drone which is exempt under the new legalisation so I can tell the Police to polite go away.

This year it's £10, next year, who knows, but they will need to recoup their investment in creating this scheme and law and that £10 will not stay £10.

eckydrone200 · Oct 28, 2019

When you register your drone and are assigned a number what happens if you sell it? Do you have to notify CAA that you have done so and remove your name from register or assign it to a new drone and also will you be required to provide details of new owner? Just curious as this is placing more responsibility on owners who comply with the rules. I will be registering my drone and abiding by the rules.

zocalo · Oct 28, 2019

eckydrone200 said:
When you register your drone and are assigned a number what happens if you sell it? Do you have to notify CAA that you have done so and remove your name from register or assign it to a new drone and also will you be required to provide details of new owner? Just curious as this is placing more responsibility on owners who comply with the rules. I will be registering my drone and abiding by the rules.

The unique number seems to be related to the operator, not the drone. It's this pilot ID number that needs to be affixed to the aircraft, so if you have several aircraft they'll all have the same number attached. Remember, this system is not expected to actually stop those with wilful malicious intent who simply won't register either themselves or their aircraft, so the simpler approach seems like it's being seen as enough to tick the necessary boxes.

What's not yet clear is whether or not each operator ID will then have one or more drone serial numbers associated with it in the CAA database, which they will be expected to modify as required as they acquire and dispose/lose aircraft; there's certainly no mention of linking drone serials to pilot IDs at time of purchase which was being mooted at one point. There's also no information on how you might remove yourself from the DB if you lose interest in flying drones, something that would be necessary to implement as long as compliance with the GDPR remains a requirement. There is however a planned review of the effectiveness of the new registation system, so there may be some tweak introduced later, or on the back of the upcoming "Drones Bill" that's due in the current 2019-2020 parliamentrary session.

eckydrone200 · Oct 28, 2019

Thanks for that Zocalo. You jogged my memory when you posted this, it's just I have read so much about it that I was starting to lose track. It's just as everyone says though, the good guys will comply or never cause any probs and those that want to get up to mischief will still carry on as normal. Just so long as CAA and the government don't impose so many restrictions that it becomes too restrictive to enjoy the hobby.

pross · Oct 28, 2019

Since the CAA finally announced details of its Drone Registration and Education Scheme (DRES) last week we have published several explanatory notes both on the BMFA website and directly to members by email. However, the flurry of correspondence and comments on various forums and groups suggests that there is still considerable misunderstanding of the scheme and ill-feeling in some quarters about what the BMFA has been doing to support its members.

From the outset, the UK model flying Associations (of which the BMFA is by far the largest) have been, and remain, strongly opposed to the imposition of the DRES scheme on model flyers. Dave Phipps and delegates from the LMA, SAA and FPVUK, along with our two volunteer advisers Roger Hopkinson MBE and Cliff Whittaker who both have invaluable professional knowledge, have been working tirelessly on this for many months. Dave Phipps’ passionate submission to the All Party Parliamentary Group that some will have seen on TV was just the tip of the iceberg of a vast amount of reading and responding to draft regulations, mountains of emails at all hours, parliamentary lobbying and high-level meetings, most of it unseen by the membership.

We accept that appropriate education, and knowledge of the laws that affect model flying, is a good thing for all model flyers whatever their interests. That is the very reason that appropriate extracts are included in the Members’ Handbook and mandatory questions on the Air Navigation Order are part of our Achievement Scheme tests. However, we maintain that the DRES (and particularly its cost) is disproportionate to our activity and inconsistent with the Secretary of State for Transport’s stated objective of ‘making the UK the best country in the world for aviation’.

However, members should be aware that:

There was nothing we could do to overcome the fact that registration and competency become legal requirements from the 30th November 2019. This policy was announced a full 2 years ago (more than 12 months before the Gatwick fiasco) resulting in changes to the law in May 2018. It could not be stopped. What we and the other Associations have fought hard for (thus far with limited success) is appropriate recognition of our existing membership registration and achievement schemes.
The law applies to ‘Small Unmanned Aircraft’ so, although the scheme refers to Drones, it encompasses all types of unmanned aircraft, including model aircraft. This was non-negotiable and even the exemption for control line models was hard-won.
Until two months ago, the Government & CAA were on course to implement the measures exactly as outlined in CAP1775 – registration and testing through the CAA at a cost of £16.50. It is as a direct result of pressure from the UK Associations and their members that the Secretary of State for Transport instructed the CAA to find ways to significantly reduce the fee and find ways to assist the Associations. Our hope was that the Government would then provide a subsidy to the CAA to bring the cost down even further, but sadly this was ultimately not forthcoming.
There has been speculation amongst some members that the £9 fee could increase significantly in future years if the number of registrations falls well short of Government predictions. There is no indication that this will happen. Indeed, the CAA has already scaled down its expectation of the number of initial registrations. However, the Associations will fight tooth and nail to oppose any increase in fees, which would be unsustainable (and also contrary to the direction of the current Transport Secretary).
Until a couple of weeks ago, the CAA’s preference was introduction of the measures outlined in CAP1775, except for the reduction in fee and a written commitment to work with the Associations to find a more acceptable resolution when the regulations change again in June 2020. The Associations unanimously rejected this plan.
What we did manage to agree in short order were measures to make it as easy as possible for our members to remain lawful. The CAA finally agreed that Association Achievements would be accepted as an alternative to the CAA test; the Associations would have the facility to assist consenting members with registration (in our case through the Membership Portal); and Association members would be exempted from the requirement to comply by the 30th November to align registration with our renewal year. However, these are all interim measures implemented as a matter of urgency to address point 1 above.
There was little else we could do to further improve the situation in terms of the UK law within the remaining time. The UK Associations are now working with the CAA to resolve details and will then concentrate efforts on trying to ensure the best outcome for the community when the regulations change again in June 2020 to align more closely with the rest of Europe (whatever the outcome of BREXIT!).

The UK is not alone in this. Model flyers throughout the world are all currently facing very similar issues with registration and training. In France, both are already a legal requirement but currently free (thanks to Government subsidy). In Germany, the registration issue is not yet resolved but flyers are required to pay 25 Euros every three years for a competency test.

To those contemplating giving up your lifelong passion I would urge you not to be too hasty. Like it or not, the march of technology is unstoppable and our aim is to ensure that model flying can continue as freely as possible as the lower airspace becomes ever more crowded and regulated. As a community working together the model flying Associations have a strong voice and a seat at the negotiating table.

The battle is far from over!

Ian Pallister FSMAE

BMFA Chairman