UK Government Drone Consultation 2018: Use, restrictions and enforcement.

oldcelt · Sep 12, 2018

The government's drone consultation closes on Monday 17th September 2018. Please complete the online survey & let your voice be heard before it's too late!

A useful document relating to the proposals has been drawn up by BMFA - link is:
Dropbox - ConsultationResponseGuidance.pdf

The government consultation page on Gov.uk is here:-
Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement

Exphantomflyer · Sep 12, 2018

Im selling up and finding a hobby that isnt going to be controlled and ruined by the government

HomeyJay · Sep 13, 2018

“Consultation” lol, they’ll get all the forms, file them in the trash and do exectly what they’ve wanted to do all along. That’s exactly how public consultation works in the UK.

Mad_Maru · Sep 13, 2018

Filled this out and the questions are so biased to what they intend to do instead of finding the best way not to kill this hobby etc. It’s clear they intend to demonise drone users which is sad...

oldcelt · Sep 13, 2018

I understand and sympathise to some extent with cynicism about government consultations. However, what is the choice? Do nothing or do one's best to make one's voice heard?

On this occasion, all the model flying associations are backing a sensible approach and, the BMFA at least, has had some influence with the CAA in the past.

I'm pretty cynical about governmental organisations but, in this case, I believe that some notice will be taken of public opinion especially as represented by BMFA and other model flying groups.

I've completed the form and I live in hope that it will have some effect, however small.

Exphantomflyer · Sep 13, 2018

oldcelt said:
I'm pretty cynical about governmental organisations but, in this case, I believe that some notice will be taken of public opinion
.

Nowt like optimism, the UK government has a history of ignoring its people and it’s why it’s no longer Great.

But yes I suppose it’s worth at least attempting, even if it’s akin to shouting into a hurricane

Ren57 · Sep 13, 2018

You can contact the Department of transport and submit your comments on this subject by using the NODE website (Network Of Drone Enthusiasts). NODE - Dedicated to ensuring fair and responsible drone regulations This circumnavigates the need to complete the consultation survey, which is frustrating, badly worded and doesn't ask the right questions. Go to NODE and click on 'TAKE ACTION'. This will bring up an e-mail that is already written for you and ready to send. My advice, would be to delete what is in the pre-written e-mail and put in your own comments. Do it NOW!

Mad_Maru · Sep 14, 2018

Ren57 said:
You can contact the Department of transport and submit your comments on this subject by using the NODE website (Network Of Drone Enthusiasts). NODE - Dedicated to ensuring fair and responsible drone regulations This circumnavigates the need to complete the consultation survey, which is frustrating, badly worded and doesn't ask the right questions. Go to NODE and click on 'TAKE ACTION'. This will bring up an e-mail that is already written for you and ready to send. My advice, would be to delete what is in the pre-written e-mail and put in your own comments. Do it NOW!

Done also and joined NODE and signed up for a few other forums to get an idea of others are signing up or not?

HomeyJay · Sep 14, 2018

Also done, but expecting bugger all to happen..

Gooseman · Sep 17, 2018

Just sent my missive. I also joined NODE, seems like a worthwhile thing to do.

Seems odd that they haven't thoroughly thought through that at 14 years old you can fly, with passenger/s, a foot launched aircraft. Something that presents a much greater risk than a sub 250g drone, or any drone I guess. But who know's how much the Gov cares about thinking anything through thoroughly.

AeroJ · Sep 18, 2018

oldcelt said:
the BMFA at least, has had some influence with the CAA in the past.

Yes but you have to remember that the BMFA won't do anything to help drone pilots, other than allow you membership so you are covered by their public liability insurance. I suspect they only do that because they need the numbers ! They have already negotiated a permanent exception to the 400 ft rule for all their fixed wing pilots, and as far as I can see made zero effort to include drones in that, so they remain not exempt. I will be leaving them next year for just this reason.

Gooseman · Sep 19, 2018

AeroJ said:
... They have already negotiated a permanent exception to the 400 ft rule for all their fixed wing pilots, and as far as I can see made zero effort to include drones in that, so they remain not exempt. I will be leaving them next year for just this reason.

This is news, and really unfair of course. Although I could see no notice in their rules (BMFA Guide p14-15) that they have this exception, as these pages quote verbatim ANO Articles 94 & 95, without any mention of 'but this doesn't apply to us...'!

AeroJ · Sep 19, 2018

Gooseman said:
This is news, and really unfair of course. Although I could see no notice in their rules (BMFA Guide p14-15) that they have this exception, as these pages quote verbatim ANO Articles 94 & 95, without any mention of 'but this doesn't apply to us...'!

This is the page you're looking for...

The recent 2018 amendments to the Air Navigation Order will come into effect on the 30th July, making it illegal to operate any unmanned aircraft (including model aircraft) above 400ft.

The UK model flying associations (BMFA, SAA, LMA & FPVUK) have been working in close collaboration in ongoing negotiations with the Department for Transport (DfT) and Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and we are pleased to report that earlier today the CAA issued us with a joint ‘Permission’ to allow our members to continue operating ‘conventional’ model aircraft (excluding multi-rotors) weighing less than 7Kg at heights in excess of 400ft.

The CAA has also issued an ‘Exemption’ to allow our members to operate ‘conventional’ model aircraft (excluding multi-rotors) weighing less than 3.5Kg at heights up to 1000ft using First Person View.

Note that any model aircraft flying within 1km of the boundary of a licensed airfield at any height will have to be with the permission of the airfield air traffic control or airfield operator.

The Permission & Exemption will come into effect on the 30th July and are limited to members of the BMFA, SAA, LMA and FPVUK. Please note that they apply only to ‘conventional’ model aircraft (including helicopters) and do not exempt multirotor drones or unmanned aircraft with autonomous flight capability from the 400ft height limit.

It was only possible to achieve this result due to the recognition given by the DfT and CAA to the excellent safety record established by the model flying associations and our members over many years and we are grateful for their help and support in achieving such a positive outcome.

Today’s announcement is a great result for the UK model flying community and is the culmination of very significant collaborative efforts by the UK Model Flying Associations working together on behalf of their members.

Gooseman · Sep 19, 2018

AeroJ said:
This is the page you're looking for...

The recent 2018 amendments to the Air Navigation Order will come into effect on the 30th July, making it illegal to operate any unmanned aircraft (including model aircraft) above 400ft.
[EDIT]
It was only possible to achieve this result due to the recognition given by the DfT and CAA to the excellent safety record established by the model flying associations and our members over many years and we are grateful for their help and support in achieving such a positive outcome.

Blimey.
Exemption to fly to 1,000ft AGL with FPV?!?!?!?
And really... they needed to state: "...due to the recognition given by the DfT and CAA to the excellent safety record established by the model flying associations and our members..."

Ren57 · Sep 19, 2018

Gooseman said:
And really... they needed to state: "...due to the recognition given by the DfT and CAA to the excellent safety record established by the model flying associations and our members..."

And what about the excellent safety record of drone pilots?!! Given the number of drones compared to model fixed wing aircraft, drones have a much better safety record, surely?! A bit of perspective is needed here I think. Over 10 years of drones and probably millions and millions of flights, zero deaths caused. The number of model fixed wing flights in that time scale is probably so low when compared to drone flights, that if you did a graph they probably wouldn't even register on it! Just go to YouTube and look at the number of model fixed wing video's of them crashing..... Frightening. Really, drones are the danger?

AeroJ · Sep 19, 2018

Ren57 said:
And what about the excellent safety record of drone pilots?!! Given the number of drones compared to model fixed wing aircraft, drones have a much better safety record, surely?! A bit of perspective is needed here I think. Over 10 years of drones and probably millions and millions of flights, zero deaths caused. The number of model fixed wing flights in that time scale is probably so low when compared to drone flights, that if you did a graph they probably wouldn't even register on it! Just go to YouTube and look at the number of model fixed wing video's of them crashing..... Frightening. Really, drones are the danger?

Yes, very hard to see that as fair, isn't it ?

I might write to them and ask why they didn't feel the need to represent UAV pilots in this regard.

Gooseman · Sep 19, 2018

AeroJ said:
Yes, very hard to see that as fair, isn't it ? I might write to them and ask why they didn't feel the need to represent UAV pilots in this regard.

I suspect a bit of Luddite in them, fear of change, and besides, drones are far too useful, environmentally friendly, and don't need acres of remote field to fly around. I applied to my local club (before I saw the light), I'll be interested to see the response to my enquiry!

Gooseman · Sep 19, 2018

Ren57 said:
And what about the excellent safety record of drone pilots?!! Given the number of drones compared to model fixed wing aircraft, drones have a much better safety record, surely?! A bit of perspective is needed here I think. Over 10 years of drones and probably millions and millions of flights, zero deaths caused. The number of model fixed wing flights in that time scale is probably so low when compared to drone flights, that if you did a graph they probably wouldn't even register on it! Just go to YouTube and look at the number of model fixed wing video's of them crashing..... Frightening. Really, drones are the danger?

Teenager is killed after she is hit by model plane | Daily Mail Online

The only thing I could find using the same search criteria was a woman passenger killed in a car accident when fleeing from a suspected drone/drug drop at Wandsworth Prison.

Gooseman · Sep 19, 2018

Anyway... while it is sorry to know drone users were specifically excluded from these 'negotiations' for the DfT and CAA, let's not be petty. We need to keep to the high moral ground... so long as that's not over 400ft.

AeroJ · Sep 19, 2018

Gooseman said:
Teenager is killed after she is hit by model plane | Daily Mail Online

Indeed, the BMFA investigated that one, and Kent Online reported their results, finding Pilot / build error was the cause.

Gooseman said:
Anyway... while it is sorry to know drone users were specifically excluded from these 'negotiations' for the DfT and CAA, let's not be petty. We need to keep to the high moral ground... so long as that's not over 400ft.

Oh I dunno. I don't think seeing fair treatment by the people apparently representing our interests compromises our moral high ground does it ?! If fixed wings and model heli's can do 1000 ft and FPV, so should their members who fly UAVs !