Understanding "line of sight"

[45er]

As a new Mavic Pro owner, I'm immersing myself one YouTube and forums to learn as much as I can about these nifty technical marvels called drones. Although I'd be a liar if I said I had a real "need" for one, I did envision some helpful applications for their use prior to purchase. I have some properties that I bow hunt and maintain blinds/feeders on. I also have an absentee neighbor with a house and 90 acres that he asks me to check on every now and then. With this drone, I can fly over my property or his land and check on things without a lot of time and disturbance. The problem is IF I HAVE TO KEEP THIS DRONE IN SIGHT DURING THE ENTIRE FLIGHT, IT'S ESSENTIALLY WORTHLESS FOR THIS PURPOSE!

In the first place, if I'm standing in even sparse trees, I can't seen this drone 100 yards away. Also, for me to check on my equipment or my neighbor's property, I have to fly it at least 300-400 meters and I couldn't see this little bird that far away if I tried!

What to the experienced drone experts say here? How do you guys use this thing for such applications? They say that the line of sight rule is to keep from interfering with aircraft. I can see that in some applications but as for me, I never have to fly it higher than 100 feet and I'm nowhere near an airport and rarely ever see even small planes fly over my area.

 

[msinger]

What to the experienced drone experts say here?

In many countries (including the US), you must fly within visual line of sight (VLOS) by law. That means you need to be able to see the drone with your eyes at all times. So, if you want to follow the law, you must fly within VLOS.

 

[jaysrmc]

As a new Mavic Pro owner, I'm immersing myself one YouTube and forums to learn as much as I can about these nifty technical marvels called drones. Although I'd be a liar if I said I had a real "need" for one, I did envision some helpful applications for their use prior to purchase. I have some properties that I bow hunt and maintain blinds/feeders on. I also have an absentee neighbor with a house and 90 acres that he asks me to check on every now and then. With this drone, I can fly over my property or his land and check on things without a lot of time and disturbance. The problem is IF I HAVE TO KEEP THIS DRONE IN SIGHT DURING THE ENTIRE FLIGHT, IT'S ESSENTIALLY WORTHLESS FOR THIS PURPOSE!

In the first place, if I'm standing in even sparse trees, I can't seen this drone 100 yards away. Also, for me to check on my equipment or my neighbor's property, I have to fly it at least 300-400 meters and I couldn't see this little bird that far away if I tried!

What to the experienced drone experts say here? How do you guys use this thing for such applications? They say that the line of sight rule is to keep from interfering with aircraft. I can see that in some applications but as for me, I never have to fly it higher than 100 feet and I'm nowhere near an airport and rarely ever see even small planes fly over my area.

There are a lot of folks that fly beyond line of sight.. That being said, the drone police will chime in shortly to quote laws and safety issues but the bottom line is most people fly beyond line of sight.

 

[45er]

The concept (law) of VLOS makes good sense, especially in relatively densely populated areas. My nearest neighbor is 300 meters away and there are virtually no buildings higher than 10 meters within 8 miles.

With all the other safety features built into DJI drones, it makes me wonder why they advertise many of their drones can fly 3-5 MILES?. No one can visually see a drone a mile away.

 

[msinger]

it makes me wonder why they advertise many of their drones can fly 3-5 MILES?

Probably because many people don't want to fly within VLOS (and don't).

 

[neggy]

The easiest way to fly SAFELY and LEGALLY, being able to see your drone at all times so you can avoid other aircraft and objects, is to fit aftermarket strobe lights to it, in accordance with FAA lighting regulations.

Not only will a Cree Strobon or other LED ( Firehouse) light allow you to find your sUAV quickly should you take your eyes off it for a second, but it will let other aircraft see you in the sky.

If the SHTF, and you had to hand fly it home from 2 miles out, without the benefit of a monitor, maps, or other features, you will be happy you spent the money for the lights and had them on and running when you needed them.

 

[neggy]

With all the other safety features built into DJI drones, it makes me wonder why they advertise many of their drones can fly 3-5 MILES?. No one can visually see a drone a mile away.

DJI's factory lighting does NOT meet FAA regulations, but Cree Strobon and other brands DO meet the FAA 3 mile minimum requirement.

Fit the right lights to it and you can legally and safely fly at least 3 miles out

 

[Garritynet]

I've watched my fair share of YouTube videos and they mostly seem to be 2-5k feet away.

Most videos I've seen couldn't possibly maintain vlos. I'm not suggesting that you break the law but if you're wondering how other pilots keep vlos, I don't think they do.

You could try flying higher, later in the day with one of those super bright flashers on. As long as you can spot the twinkle you have vlos.

Here is 260 meters

 

[EyeFlightDrone]

If your mind's eye see it, then you have vlos! Lol

Just use your discretion and you'll be ok. If you are inspecting a roof, you can't keep vlos 100 percent of the time, so that's understandable. It you could keep vlos then you wouldn't need a drone inspection. That's using discretion.

 

[mikemoose55]

maintaining VLS is like obeying the speed limit, we all break the rules now and then , and then and then again. Your bigger issue is what air space are you under?
If you are class G to 700 you probally can stretch the rules a bit. If you are anything other than G you are taking a huge chance . all you need is a report of violation of air space by some full size pilot and even with your rural location you could be in some hot water. Remember we are drone pilots which is code speak for automatically guilty.
mikemoose55

 

[45er]

maintaining VLS is like obeying the speed limit, we all break the rules now and then , and then and then again. Your bigger issue is what air space are you under?
If you are class G to 700 you probally can stretch the rules a bit. If you are anything other than G you are taking a huge chance . all you need is a report of violation of air space by some full size pilot and even with your rural location you could be in some hot water. Remember we are drone pilots which is code speak for automatically guilty.
mikemoose55

I went to AirMap and my area is out of any classification. Whew!

 

[neggy]

I went to AirMap and my area is out of any classification. Whew!

and a helicopter can be at any height ....

you are 3 miles out, you do not know where your drone is in the sky, a helicopter is doing a gas line R.O.W. survey or such, you pick up the helicopter but you have no idea where your drone is.

Now what?

 

[45er]

and a helicopter can be at any height ....

you are 3 miles out, you do not know where your drone is in the sky, a helicopter is doing a gas line R.O.W. survey or such, you pick up the helicopter but you have no idea where your drone is.

Now what?

Three miles is ridiculous. The most I'll ever need to go is about 1/2 mile and 100 feet up to accomplish my recon work. I think my risk is extremely low. Additionally, I've lived out here 12 years and I've never seen a plane or copter under 1000 feet. Yes, the scenario you mention could happen, but I could get hit by a meteor too! LOL

 

[Garritynet]

You're three miles out, a meteor is headed straight for the earth, our only hope depends on America's best oil drillers who are in astronaut boot camp, it's 2am on a Saturday night, do you know where your drones are?

 

[45er]

You're three miles out, a meteor is headed straight for the earth, our only hope depends on America's best oil drillers who are in astronaut boot camp, it's 2am on a Saturday night, do you know where your drones are?

And I'm tired and have an excruciating headache! LOL Seriously, I'm not trying to make fun of good, sound safety rules. They are there for a good reason. However, I'm thinking with good judgement and care, I can occasionally fly this drone in areas where I cannot see it. Honestly, in wooded areas like where I live, if you could never fly the drone out of sight, there wouldn't be much use in having one. In most cases it would be tough to fly it beyond 100 meters and still see it.

 

[neggy]

I live in NH, the land of trees, so I know how you feel, but I have had a Helicopter come over at 200' multiple times as they are either inspecting the nearby power lines, or they are using them as a navigation aid ( Pilot joke IFR means I Fly Roads.... we follow them sometimes, especially helicopters) and somewhere here there is a picture I took while directly over my house that shows a helicopter at 250' AGL a half mile away.... we were at the same height when I snapped the picture .

Behind my house in Florida I have miles of open space, cow pasture and a quarry.

I do have an Airport 2.3 miles south, but I have never seen anyone below 400'

I have flown out 2+ miles to where I-75 is at the edge of the pasture.

The Cree LED's made it so I could see it the whole way out and back

 

[45er]

I live in NH, the land of trees, so I know how you feel, but I have had a Helicopter come over at 200' multiple times as they are either inspecting the nearby power lines, or they are using them as a navigation aid ( Pilot joke IFR means I Fly Roads.... we follow them sometimes, especially helicopters) and somewhere here there is a picture I took while directly over my house that shows a helicopter at 250' AGL a half mile away.... we were at the same height when I snapped the picture .

Behind my house in Florida I have miles of open space, cow pasture and a quarry.

I do have an Airport 2.3 miles south, but I have never seen anyone below 400'

I have flown out 2+ miles to where I-75 is at the edge of the pasture.

The Cree LED's made it so I could see it the whole way out and backView attachment 49478View attachment 49478View attachment 49480View attachment 49481View attachment 49482

I live in NH, the land of trees, so I know how you feel, but I have had a Helicopter come over at 200' multiple times as they are either inspecting the nearby power lines, or they are using them as a navigation aid ( Pilot joke IFR means I Fly Roads.... we follow them sometimes, especially helicopters) and somewhere here there is a picture I took while directly over my house that shows a helicopter at 250' AGL a half mile away.... we were at the same height when I snapped the picture .

Behind my house in Florida I have miles of open space, cow pasture and a quarry.

I do have an Airport 2.3 miles south, but I have never seen anyone below 400'

I have flown out 2+ miles to where I-75 is at the edge of the pasture.

The Cree LED's made it so I could see it the whole way out and backView attachment 49478View attachment 49478View attachment 49480View attachment 49481View attachment 49482

Thank you for sharing these. And while don't envisage an incident where my drone and a helicopter will encounter one another, I know now to be cognizant of the possibility. I can hear copters coming a long way off. I think my contingency plan would be to lower my drone to 75 feet or so and wait for the heli to go on by. Good to have this in mind should such a scenario ever arise!

 

[Mossiback]

Given the scenario you described, I would fly it. You are flying in a lightly populated area, over your own property or your neighbors, and are familiar with other air traffic in the area.

Make sure you are familiar with the RTH settings and keep battery health and wind speed/direction aloft in mind as you fly.