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Use of Drones to record civil unrest.

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jagraphics

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NOTE another thread on a similar subject got closed because it got silly and political. Lets not repeat that.
ALSO it is civil unrest where there is still (in theory) some Rule of Law unlike a war zone where normal laws simply do not apply (and you are more than likly to end up dead).

I do photo/video journalism on the ground. I have covered civil unrest in various places. The problem is if you are looking at the camera viewfinder or the Drone control screen you are not looking at the situation rapidly developeing around you. So whilst a still photographer can get away with it because they are mostly don't have their eye glued to the viewfinder the videographers can't so easily as they are focused on the veiwfinder for longer periods and a drone flyer for longer still. This can be fatal. Video/Drone people need to work with a team. It can't be done solo at least not safely so DO NOT DO IT

The other problem is that any "side" in civil unrest will see a drone and assume it works for "the other side" .

Note there are always more than two sides.
For the Authorities there are the Police. However whilst in the UK that is The Police, in many other countries (Spain, Turkey, USA) there are multiple different Police forces who could be there. In many countries (though not the UK) there is the Military. Again they could come in multiple different flavors at the same protest/riot.
On the protesters side there are normally a large number of different groups usually with different objectives. and methods and even less coordination than the authorities. The chances are EVERYONE will be very suspicious of any drone they can see. NO ONE will be your friend other than the team with you. Your ground team is as much a target as the drone.

The big problem these days is everyone is internet and media savy. They want to get their story out their way. So whilst wearing a helmet and body armour is a Good Idea (tm). Having PRESS written on them in large letters may make you more of a target. Indeed in recent years this has very much been the case in many conflicts. The incidence of war reporters being killed is rising at an alarming rate.

Also depending were you are: it is just as dangerous to your health to get "caught" by either side. Remember most participants will be running on high adrenaline and not always thinking clearly.

Many police forces can jam or get turned off mobile phones. They can probably also disrupt wifi etc. So one threat to using a drone is it might suddenly loose all signal and or drop out of the sky.

Depending where you are firearms might be prevalent. Police forces often use shotguns, even with non lethal ammo, they are idea for bringing down drones (whether shooting them is legally sanctioned or not) Protesters tend not to have long arms if they do LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. Pistols are not going to bring down a drone. However at the first sign of any gunfire from anyone you need to be in hard cover. Preferably somewhere else out of range unless you want to be a dead hero.

NOTE NEVER EVER carry any sort of weapon to a protest or rally. Reporters, even in armed conflicts, do NOT ever carry weapons.

As for controlling the drone. If tear gas is likely to be used you need decent goggles and probably a respirator because you are going to have to spend some time getting the drone back down where you can retrieve it.

Are there likely to be Police helicopters? Normally these will want to work out side the range of any "ground fire" from the protesters. Normally stones some times sling shots and catapults. Not usually firearms. You will need to keep well out of their way as the downdraft will kill your drone (ie it is unlikely to recover retrievable flight before hitting something solid )

In some locations it depends if it is daylight or not. Also it depends if some quick thinking Police Officer has put a NFZ over the city. I am not sure how fast they can bit put into effect on on the DJI system. IT might work for planed marches/rally or for ongoing civil unrest but not things that just happen.

As a journalist you have a duty to report but not be illegal. Then you get in to the balances of right or wrong. That is a personal decision that will depend on the specific circumstances. In the UK there is a "Public Interest" clause where the greater good outweighs the some minor infractions..... Some times you get away with it other times you have to argue it in court.

So you finally get to the actual rules of flying over people, property and buildings. They seem a bit irrelevant at this point. However they still make a lot of sense pragmatically just as much as legally. You need to be well clear of angry people launching projectiles, wires on poles, buildings smoke and fires etc

You are better off taking a hand held camera up building and looking down. Which is why, so far, I have not seen any professional news crew using a sUAV for getting video of civil unrest.

Having been in a few riots over the years I can tell you: your best way of seeing them is on the TV news from a sofa.

I have seen press photographers and video teams beaten up and their kit destroyed. This included experienced people who did nothing wrong and were were just unlucky. Some are even less lucky 2019 Violations of press freedom barometer | Reporters without borders As you will see citizen journalists get killed almost as much as the professional journalists.
 
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Faa: it’s illigeal to interfere within and emergency scene, such as fires ect. Now it’s not illigeal to fly from a distance of an emergency scene. Just dont interfere.


For a Road Traffic Incident or a building fire that it fine. That is a static point incident.

The problem with a riot is that it is going to be moving and unpredictably so. Also it covers a large irregular and changing area.

So flying from outside that area is going to be difficult. especially with VLOS . About the only sensible way of doing it is from the top of a flat roofed building that is above the riot. In which case it makes more sense to use a hand held camera.
 
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Ok - this thread is open again but it will only cover the use of drones, regulations, etc... If it goes political, gets ugly or otherwise off-topic then those posts will be deleted and the thread will be closed.

There should be no politics involved. Riots are pretty much the same anywhere in the world. I was thinking of Hong Kong , Birmingham UK and Halabja when writing some of the post above.

NOTE that the local regulations on drone flying are a minor part at the end. More useful would the the RSF Handbook for Journalists or the Small World News Guide to safely and security producing media. or Christian Parkinson's document on being a documentary cameraman It covers dangerous areas. Looking through the collection on my hard drive most of them cover conflicts (hot wars). However the one attached has a whole chapter on civil unrest.

If you are reporting on a riot you are a NEUTRAL OBSERVER you do not take part on any side. You do not get involved.
 

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NOTE another thread on a similar subject got closed because it got silly and political. Lets not repeat that.
ALSO it is civil unrest where there is still (in theory) some Rule of Law unlike a war zone where normal laws simply do not apply (and you are more than likly to end up dead).

I do photo/video journalism on the ground. I have covered civil unrest in various places. The problem is if you are looking at the camera viewfinder or the Drone control screen you are not looking at the situation rapidly developeing around you. So whilst a still photographer can get away with it because they are mostly don't have their eye glued to the viewfinder the videographers can't so easily as they are focused on the veiwfinder for longer periods and a drone flyer for longer still. This can be fatal. Video/Drone people need to work with a team. It can't be done solo at least not safely so DO NOT DO IT

The other problem is that any "side" in civil unrest will see a drone and assume it works for "the other side" .

Note there are always more than two sides.
For the Authorities there are the Police. However whilst in the UK that is The Police, in many other countries (Spain, Turkey, USA) there are multiple different Police forces who could be there. In many countries (though not the UK) there is the Military. Again they could come in multiple different flavors at the same protest/riot.
On the protesters side there are normally a large number of different groups usually with different objectives. and methods and even less coordination than the authorities. The chances are EVERYONE will be very suspicious of any drone they can see. NO ONE will be your friend other than the team with you. Your ground team is as much a target as the drone.

The big problem these days is everyone is internet and media savy. They want to get their story out their way. So whilst wearing a helmet and body armour is a Good Idea (tm). Having PRESS written on them in large letters may make you more of a target. Indeed in recent years this has very much been the case in many conflicts. The incidence of war reporters being killed is rising at an alarming rate.

Also depending were you are: it is just as dangerous to your health to get "caught" by either side. Remember most participants will be running on high adrenaline and not always thinking clearly.

Many police forces can jam or get turned off mobile phones. They can probably also disrupt wifi etc. So one threat to using a drone is it might suddenly loose all signal and or drop out of the sky.

Depending where you are firearms might be prevalent. Police forces often use shotguns, even with non lethal ammo, they are idea for bringing down drones (whether shooting them is legally sanctioned or not) Protesters tend not to have long arms if they do LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. Pistols are not going to bring down a drone. However at the first sign of any gunfire from anyone you need to be in hard cover. Preferably somewhere else out of range unless you want to be a dead hero.

NOTE NEVER EVER carry any sort of weapon to a protest or rally. Reporters, even in armed conflicts, do NOT ever carry weapons.

As for controlling the drone. If tear gas is likely to be used you need decent goggles and probably a respirator because you are going to have to spend some time getting the drone back down where you can retrieve it.

Are there likely to be Police helicopters? Normally these will want to work out side the range of any "ground fire" from the protesters. Normally stones some times sling shots and catapults. Not usually firearms. You will need to keep well out of their way as the downdraft will kill your drone (ie it is unlikely to recover retrievable flight before hitting something solid )

In some locations it depends if it is daylight or not. Also it depends if some quick thinking Police Officer has put a NFZ over the city. I am not sure how fast they can bit put into effect on on the DJI system. IT might work for planed marches/rally or for ongoing civil unrest but not things that just happen.

As a journalist you have a duty to report but not be illegal. Then you get in to the balances of right or wrong. That is a personal decision that will depend on the specific circumstances. In the UK there is a "Public Interest" clause where the greater good outweighs the some minor infractions..... Some times you get away with it other times you have to argue it in court.

So you finally get to the actual rules of flying over people, property and buildings. They seem a bit irrelevant at this point. However they still make a lot of sense pragmatically just as much as legally. You need to be well clear of angry people launching projectiles, wires on poles, buildings smoke and fires etc

You are better off taking a hand held camera up building and looking down. Which is why, so far, I have not seen any professional news crew using a sUAV for getting video of civil unrest.

Having been in a few riots over the years I can tell you: your best way of seeing them is on the TV news from a sofa.

I have seen press photographers and video teams beaten up and their kit destroyed. This included experienced people who did nothing wrong and were were just unlucky. Some are even less lucky 2016 Violations of press freedom barometer | Reporters without borders As you will see citizen journalists get killed almost as much as the professional journalists.

The only advice you should be taking is from a lawyer. Everyone can throw in their two cents, but it makes no difference what their opinion is if it differs from the law.
 
Faa: it’s illigeal to interfere within and emergency scene, such as fires ect. Now it’s not illigeal to fly from a distance of an emergency scene. Just dont interfere.
In the U.S., the applicable FAA rule states “Never interfere with emergency response activities such as disaster relief, any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.”

So I’m wondering how we can fly our drone, and not interfere, especially if a law enforcement drone or helicopter or medical response helicopter is operating in the area. And in cases of civil unrest, with a kinetically moving scenario, perhaps drone usage is not wise, and handheld photography/videography is best.
 
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In the U.S., the applicable FAA rule states “Never interfere with emergency response activities such as disaster relief, any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.”

So I’m wondering how we can fly our drone, and not interfere, especially if a law enforcement drone or helicopter or medical response helicopter is operating in the area. And in cases of civil unrest, with a kinetically moving scenario, perhaps drone usage is not wise, and handheld photography/videography is best.

Just to be clear - that's not an FAA rule - it's advice on the FAA website. It appears nowhere in the applicable laws.
 
Just to be clear - that's not an FAA rule - it's advice on the FAA website. It appears nowhere in the applicable laws.
Thank you for the quick clarification. It’s certainly advice I’ll follow, but it’s not my intention to mislead anyone on stated laws.
 
Thank you for the quick clarification. It’s certainly advice I’ll follow, but it’s not my intention to mislead anyone on stated laws.

And just to be clear - there are plenty of non-FAA laws against interfering with emergency activities in general, so it is certainly good advice.
 
Watching something else reminded me that in the USA, far more so than elsewhere, TV channels tend to use helicopters in urban areas. I haven't seen any areial footage of the current US riots on this side of the pond. Are the TV channels using helicopters? If so flying a small drone in the area is not clever. It is more likely an sUAV will come off a lot worse in any collision but it is far more likely the down draft will throw the drone into something else (building, ground etc)
 
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The only advice you should be taking is from a lawyer. Everyone can throw in their two cents, but it makes no difference what their opinion is if it differs from the law.
That's fine in theory but not how it works in practice. Also 99.99% of lawyers have no idea how you can work safety as a photo/video journalist in civil unrest. They can give no useful advice on how to work.
 
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In the U.S., the applicable FAA rule states “Never interfere with emergency response activities such as disaster relief, any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.”

So I’m wondering how we can fly our drone, and not interfere, especially if a law enforcement drone or helicopter or medical response helicopter is operating in the area. And in cases of civil unrest, with a kinetically moving scenario, perhaps drone usage is not wise, and handheld photography/videography is best.

That is the crux of it. Riots can have static standoffs for 30 minutes and then with no warning: in 60 seconds move a city block when one side or the other charges. Usually with teargas etc. So you have to run like flip, dodge everyone else, the teargas, things being thrown/fired and keep track and control of the drone at the same time. It's hard enough doing that with a hand held video camera.
 
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This is a very interesting thread for people flying drones, when it is during times of civil emergency or unrest. With no need to be political, it is providing some very good advice for pilots who may not have considered the wider range of unique consequences that arise during such conflicts. In a looting scenario, such as we are seeing from across the world, the prospects of a collision with news or police helicopters, or from their rotor influence, is high. The use of defensive signal jammers could easily render a drone as inoperable and misidentification of the drone operator as an accomplice to the looters (reporting any police presence) is also possible. In short, unless a pilot has a press accreditation and has been approved to film in a conflict zone, then they would be well advised to stay clear. Feedback in this thread from experienced reporters or civil defence or police is welcomed to add to the flying knowledge, as I have seen chat on YouTube suggesting that some people have been considering putting their drones over the riot areas. Not a wise decision. With thanks - from New Zealand.
 
I haven't seen any US press using sUAV's Press The US tend to use full size helicopters that can fly, legally, well outside the range of any likely projectiles from the ground and move quickly over distances and out of VLOS of any ground person. Also you have a team. A pilot, cameraman, producer/presenter.

If you are flying a drone you are going to need a spotter standing with you to watch the situation and direct whilst the pilot concentratess on the screen. Also some one to act as a lookout on the ground to keep the pilot and the spotter safe and probably a 4th person as well. If it is just you and a mate then count on loosing the drone (at least).
 
The local helicopter club was doing at least a mile radius over the local riot. Their circles aren't just perfect either. It may vary based on movements they are interested in. It may vary on other factors. You'd have to be a distance away just to stay away from the radius. Their vertical stance may vary and be too low to consider using the sUAS.

I found a picture that somebody took from a drone where they were up to the limit of about 400 feet AGL. They could clearly see about 2 miles from there (during the daytime, you'll have to pick your targets at night which is where the protesters like the most). Of course the farther away, the less the camera picks up, but that's just the options you are limited to.

Unless you have endless batteries, you'd still have to bring the bird down, and back up, and you might miss that moment where things are happening (honey, bring me the longer extension cord). Like most situations, a drone is both a good idea (get a view of everything going on), and a bad idea (better stay on the ground).

Unfortunately, if you want to know what's going on, you'll probably have to be on the ground right in the middle of it, tear gas and all with your little camera that'll need the batteries changed in about an hour.
 
Unless you have endless batteries, you'd still have to bring the bird down, and back up, and you might miss that moment where things are happening (honey, bring me the longer extension cord). Like most situations, a drone is both a good idea (get a view of everything going on), and a bad idea (better stay on the ground).

Unfortunately, if you want to know what's going on, you'll probably have to be on the ground right in the middle of it, tear gas and all with your little camera that'll need the batteries changed in about an hour.

Batteries for ground video cameras last between 5 and 24 hours. They take about 5 seconds to change so 2-3 batteries will be enough

For drones... you are going to need a box of batteries. You are very unlikely, unless flying of a high roof top where there is mains power for charging, going to have enough batteries for all night with a UAV.
You are not going to be charging batteries at ground level from mains or a car.

Time to change a UAV battery is minutes. You have to bring it down, change battery (and memory card) and get it back on station.
 
Ok guys I removed the video as this thread is Not going to be about the unrest here.
Post on the topic the op started. I know as everyone else whats going on here as it’s nonstop on TV.
dc
 
Faa: it’s illigeal to interfere within and emergency scene, such as fires ect. Now it’s not illigeal to fly from a distance of an emergency scene. Just dont interfere.

That brings up an unrelated question but I hope you indulge me. I know it's illegal to fly in a national park, but is it illegal to "fly from a distance" there? In other words maybe stand outside the park and put the drone up keeping it outside the park but taking video or pictures of the park or is that not allowed?
 
Watching something else reminded me that in the USA, far more so than elsewhere, TV channels tend to use helicopters in urban areas. I haven't seen any areial footage of the current US riots on this side of the pond. Are the TV channels using helicopters? If so flying a small drone in the area is not clever. It is more likely an sUAV will come off a lot worse in any collision but it is far more likely the down draft will throw the drone into something else (building, ground etc)
I live near Saint Louis and have seen many news helicopters taking video so you are correct, even thinking of putting a drone up in these areas is looking for trouble in more ways than one.
 
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