What Information does a Drone Tracking App Receive and What does it Show…

[LoudThunder]

One of the members pondered if a RID Remote Broadcast Module installed on a RID Compliant Drone would interfere with the other broadcast and who would know…

This is a serious issue and one that I think needs its own Topic, rather than the fanciful musings of the Original Poster…

You also might be interested to find out exactly how much Flight Telemetry a person using a RID Drone Tracking App on their Smartphone would receive.

If you have a RID Compliant (enabled) Drone that transmits the FAA's required signal specifications, it transmits: the Drone's ID (Serial Number), the Drone's location and altitude, the Drone's velocity, the Control Station location and elevation (Your location whether you move about or not, because your controller "talks" to the drone and tells it where it is…), the Drone's Time mark (Flight Time), and any Emergency Status (low battery warnings, weak signals, strong winds, etc…)

If you add a Broadcast Module, it will also transmit at the same time. However, since it is not electronically connected to the Drone or the Controller, it can only broadcast information relative to itself.

The Module broadcasts the following information: the Drone's ID (an identification number imprinted into the circuitry of the module), the Drone's location and altitude (actually the Module's location and altitude…), the Drone's velocity (again, the Module's speed), the Takeoff location and elevation (where it was located when turned on), and the Time mark (how long it has been turned on)… And the Module will transmit that information for up to 1.5 km or almost a mile…

I have provided a Screen Grab of the DroneTag Drone Tracking App reading the Broadcast signal from an Add-On "DroneTag" Remote Module.

Dronetag

Dronetag develops a solution for safe and efficient drone traffic management in the European airspace

bit.ly

The App being used is "DroneTag" available Free at your Android and iOS Play Store.

These Apps are capable of discriminating the signals from multiple Drones. Note that it shows the Map, the Flight Path, the Takeoff Location, and the Telemetry is recorded with altitude, speed, location, distance from controller, and so much more… It even displays the location of the Smartphone running the App and if its pointing in the direction of the Drone…



This App allows all this information to be downloaded as a CSV File and this information can then be provided as definitive proof of your flights to the FAA if you are flying where you should not, flying without an authorization or waiver, beyond Visual Line of Sight, etc…

So, if you have a Drone Vigilante who takes an undue interest in your flights, perhaps in your Neighborhood, a Local Park, A Job Site, etc… they might just save a batch of your flight files and submit all of them to the FAA to cause you trouble.

Based on several questions and observations made by some of the members of the various web sites that I have posted this information on, I have some follow-up information…

The FAA specified that the Remote Broadcast Module must be tamper resistant, meaning the Identification Number assigned to the unit cannot be changed. The Identification Number will be assigned by the manufacturer.

Next, if your Drone is a Non-Compliant Unmanned Aircraft (no built in RID…) and you are required to use a Remote Broadcast Module due to the drone's weight (for Rec Pilots…) or the drone (all weights…) is used in a Part 107 Operation, then you will be required to go into your FAADroneZone Account and edit the Drone's Identification Number (usually the Serial Number…) and change it to the Remote Broadcast Module Identification Number.

For more information, please see the 470-Page FAA Final Rule…

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2021-08/RemoteID_Final_Rule.pdf

or a more condensed, and readable version put out by the FPV Freedom Coalition…

Remote ID Final Rule Summary — FPV Freedom Coalition

fpvfc.org

Please remember, I am only trying to be the "Messenger" with this information. I do not necessarily subscribe to the need for RIDs; however, with that being said; That Bozo who flew his Mini 3 into the ballpark and interrupted the Baseball game, (please excuse the pun…), we need to be RID of Drone Flyers like that…

 

[RadioFlyerMan]

It all sounds too onerous, even if every flight conforms perfectly to all regulations. I’m contemplating going back to restoring 1930’s Zenith tube radios.

 

[MA2 317]

1930’s Zenith tube radios.

Had to respond.

A cousin of mine was told as a young child, that the tubes glowed in the radio so the people inside can read the sheet music while playing.


.

 

[GFields]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[SmilingOgre]

Appreciate this post. Good to see what the app will produce. It is what it is. No comment beyond that.

 

[DougMcC]

What altitude is reported. RID GPS (if possible) altitude ASL, barometric ASL (without local correction), altitude above launch point or …?
I often fly with LAANC clearance up to 100 ft AGL max. The airfield is 4 miles away and the field elevation is 66 feet ASL. That clearance to me is a hard altitude of 166 ft above a launching site at the beach. All LAANC clearances are relative to the issuing ATC facility airport’s ASL altitude. My Mavic 3 reports a barometric altitude relative to my launch point. A violation of a clearance would take some calculation. Or am I wrong?

 

[SethB]

…This App allows all this information to be downloaded as a CSV File and this information can then be provided as definitive proof of your flights to the FAA if you are flying where you should not, flying without an authorization or waiver, beyond Visual Line of Sight, etc…

So, if you have a Drone Vigilante who takes an undue interest in your flights, perhaps in your Neighborhood, a Local Park, A Job Site, etc… they might just save a batch of your flight files and submit all of them to the FAA to cause you trouble…

I appreciate all the good info included @LoudThunder !

What actually might happen when a busybody Drone Vigilante (DV) captures flight data and sends it to FAA is pretty speculative.

I think (also speculatively) that FAA would be interested in:
* Airspace violations of all kinds
* Any obvious Beyond VLOS data
* A RID serial number that doesn’t seem to be attached to a drone registration

FAA has no interest or authority regarding flight operations from private or public property.

Now, the DV would have to navigate various rules and jurisdictions to share their complaint. And, there is a LOT to navigate!
* Perceived privacy violation? Learn the law and contact local or state law enforcement. The pilot frequently would have the evidence of their flight log and photos/video on their side. And now, the RID flight log!
* Flying in the park? Is it actually against the rules? Who administers the park?
* Harassment? Does the DV have some pictures to show this? Then to local law enforcement?

I think my (speculative) point is that local and state police have to deal with all kinds of citizen complaints every day, and develop a good sense of what’s legitimately a public safety concern and actionable. They do not want to waste their time going in circles with people claiming violations that don’t actually exist except in a DV’s head.

I have no doubt that some pilots will have some irritating experiences due to Drone Vigilantes finding a new avenue with RID. I’m hopeful that the real consequences won’t have much impact on pilots who fly with respect for others’ rights, the local laws, and FAA regulations.

 

[LoudThunder]

Or am I wrong?

You have raised a lot of valid points, none of which I am qualified to answer. However, the DroneTag Drone Tracking App is "Open-Source Software" that was released by the Manufacturer so that the users could: Add, Delete, Change, or Enhance, the functions of the App. That means that anyone with some knowledge of the Programming Languages "C" and "C+" can change the way the App operates. The Programmer could then send the changes to the manufacturer for possible inclusion in the distributed App.

Right now, the DroneTag Remote Module has several versions on the market. One version has Cellular LTE capability and will have something to do with the FAA Unmanned Traffic Management (UTM) and will allow more information to become available to the user. (It's all beyond me…)

But as the modules become more and more capable such as providing: barometric pressure, humidity, temperature, Flavor-of-the-Month…) , more and more information may be transmitted from the drone. So the App will need to be updated to collect that information…

I'm not saying that's good, but when my neighbor got new Hearing Aids, I was helping him set up the Smartphone App, and I was surprised to learn that the Hearing Aids transmitted the battery level to the App…

 

[LoudThunder]

I have no doubt that some pilots will have some irritating experiences due to Drone Vigilantes finding a new avenue with RID. I’m hopeful that the real consequences won’t have much impact on pilots who fly with respect for others’ rights, the local laws, and FAA regulations.

I have had only one (none) experience with a Drone Vigilante (DV) and I treated them like I do unleashed dogs when I come across them. I never fly my batteries dead, I'm always within 100' or so when the 5-minute warning goes off, I've still got plenty of flying time… I saw a suspected DV watching my drone and they seemed to be "drifting" in my direction, so I flew lower and they really perked up and then I slowly flew my drone away from me and 'lo 'n behold, they followed the drone, when it was a couple of hundred feet away, I quickly rose up and flew the drone circuitously (not in a straight path) back to me… they did not follow…

I have asked folks to leash loose dogs when they bring them around me when I'm flying at the park, and I cannot believe how stupidly they reply, "the dogs are just curious…"

So, I again lower the drone (never lower than 15' for so and "hop" it up and down a few feet so the motors really buzz and that really gets the dogs attention and then I fly off (way off…) with the dogs "in tow" leaving the owners screaming for the dogs to return, few do… and then when the dogs are good and far away I fly back…

I fly the Mini 2 and if it gets Drone Compliant RID (as the Japanese models have…) the DVs will then know my location from the reported Controller Location… So my tricks may not work so well in the future. Then I will probably get a "Body Clip" for one of my old smart phones and put in on video and Body Cam my experiences with any DVs…

 

[Ty Pilot]

All of this discussion on RID reminds me of the days leading up to the turn of the century when there was wild speculation about what would happen when midnight hit on December 31st 1999. Planes were going to fall out of the sky, household electronics were going to stop working and whole computer networks would go down, hunger and death would ensue.

These DV's (I call them KDV's) do exist and I can see how the tech could allow them to monitor or see vital information about drone flights - I'll give you that. But they can also hop in a car and follow me down the road every day and film my every move while driving. They could then compile a 'showreel' of me speeding, running red lights or stop signs or any other possible infractions. They could then go down to the local police station and present their case. . . . . . .

Of course this has never happened because 1], I never do any of that (scouts honor) and 2], because neither the Karen Driver Vigilante nor the police, work like that. Further look at what it takes for the FAA to get into gear and actually take action (such as fines,) against a drone pilot. Re: the Philly Drone Pilot guy. There are guys on this forum bragging they break the rules - has the FAA given them a call? So yeah if you're a habitual rule breaker and anti-authority specialist, you may find RID to be a thorn in your side, and in that respect; Okay.

Seriously, I know there will be a few cases highlighted once this gets going, but in general, for most of the drone world, this will cause no more issues than having a cell phone in your pocket or a license plate on your car in my opinion.

 

[AlanL]

I honestly find all of the angst about RID to be a bit on the amusing side. If I am flying by the rules I really don't care of some KDV starts their rant game with the local PD/Sheriff's Office. How many times do you think local law enforcement will respond to the KDV's complaints when they find a legal drone pilot at the other end of the KDV shrieking before they start filing further complaints in the wastebasket?

 

[Chip]

A Clever Radio Trick Can Tell If a Drone Is Watching You​

Researchers at Ben Gurion University in Beer Sheva, Israel have built a proof-of-concept system for counter-surveillance against spy drones that demonstrates a clever, if not exactly simple, way to determine whether a certain person or object is under aerial surveillance. They first generate a recognizable pattern on whatever subject—a window, say—someone might want to guard from potential surveillance. Then they remotely intercept a drone's radio signals to look for that pattern in the streaming video the drone sends back to its operator. If they spot it, they can determine that the drone is looking at their subject.

A Clever Radio Trick Can Tell If a Drone Is Watching You

A quirk of video compression lets spy targets see what the drone watching them sees.

www.wired.com

 

[David Metcalf]

No one is using RID. Just "snooped" and there is NOTHING showing.

 

[anotherlab]

A Clever Radio Trick Can Tell If a Drone Is Watching You​

Researchers at Ben Gurion University in Beer Sheva, Israel have built a proof-of-concept system for counter-surveillance against spy drones that demonstrates a clever, if not exactly simple, way to determine whether a certain person or object is under aerial surveillance. They first generate a recognizable pattern on whatever subject—a window, say—someone might want to guard from potential surveillance. Then they remotely intercept a drone's radio signals to look for that pattern in the streaming video the drone sends back to its operator. If they spot it, they can determine that the drone is looking at their subject.

A Clever Radio Trick Can Tell If a Drone Is Watching You

A quirk of video compression lets spy targets see what the drone watching them sees.

www.wired.com

If a drone is close enough that changing a detail on a home could be picked up in the change in the video signal, it would be close to the home that you could the camera pointed at it. The drone would also have to hover in place for the delta frames to change in such a way to make this technique work.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Please remember, I am only trying to be the "Messenger" with this information. I do not necessarily subscribe to the need for RIDs; however, with that being said; That Bozo who flew his Mini 3 into the ballpark and interrupted the Baseball game, (please excuse the pun…), we need to be RID of Drone Flyers like that…

I'm mostly a small 'L' libertarian philosophically, so am biased like many here in favor of freedom and being left alone if not doing anything wrong.

Yet, I am (holding my nose) a supporter of RID. It's behavior like that above that makes it necessary. With drones easy to obtain at very affordable prices, and easy to fly right out of the box by the complete noob, incidents like above are going to keep happening, unless we can raise the price A LOT for doing such things.

We have ATM cards with PINs for exactly the same reason. It would be nice if the bank simply left a bucket of cash out front that you could withdraw from, but we know why that absurdity is not the case... Simply put, not everyone's honest.

 

[Droning on and on...]

It all sounds too onerous, even if every flight conforms perfectly to all regulations. I’m contemplating going back to restoring 1930’s Zenith tube radios.

Problem is, there'll be nothing to receive in the not-too-distant future

 

[Droning on and on...]

What altitude is reported. RID GPS (if possible) altitude ASL, barometric ASL (without local correction), altitude above launch point or …?

I googled a bit and surprisingly have not been able to find an answer. IMO, the only altitude that makes any sense is GPS, inaccurate as it is.

 

[DougMcC]

I googled a bit and surprisingly have not been able to find an answer. IMO, the only altitude that makes any sense is GPS, inaccurate as it is.

I googled a bit and surprisingly have not been able to find an answer. IMO, the only altitude that makes any sense is GPS, inaccurate as it is.

Thanks for looking. Interestingly I often get a LAANC clearance for 100 feet AGL standing on a 25 foot hill surrounding a lighthouse. Technically I can fly 100 feet straight up and be legal. If I move the drone 50 feet in any direction I am at 125 feet above the surrounding harbor. The “altitude” on the screen remains at 100 feet above launch. I’m guessing the RID would report 100 ft as my altitude - or ??

 

[Droning on and on...]

Thanks for looking. Interestingly I often get a LAANC clearance for 100 feet AGL standing on a 25 foot hill surrounding a lighthouse. Technically I can fly 100 feet straight up and be legal. If I move the drone 50 feet in any direction I am at 125 feet above the surrounding harbor. The “altitude” on the screen remains at 100 feet above launch. I’m guessing the RID would report 100 ft as my altitude - or ??

That doesn't seem it would make sense, by this reasoning: Add-on legacy modules must broadcast altitude too, but only have access to their own GPS data.

It would be very confusing to have stand-alone modules report a different measure of height than an integrated RID feature.

 

[DougMcC]

That doesn't seem it would make sense, by this reasoning: Add-on legacy modules must broadcast altitude too, but only have access to their own GPS data.

It would be very confusing to have stand-alone modules report a different measure of height than an integrated RID feature.