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What is the largest print we can make from a 20mp file (P4P,Mavic 3, etc), or from stitched Panos ?

Thanks LT- I'm Part 107. Not an issue.

And Robert - I've no issue working on my images. I'm not bad in Photoshop....
This is with a Phantom 3 Pro. Don't think its multi-row, Prob can't go as big as ones I'm doing currently, but I do a lot of work on them.
selective noise reduction & sharpening, etc..
Adler-Northerly_0748-Pano_1200PxWeb.jpg
 
Hi gang,

This is a question for people who are actually making QUALITY prints for sale. I've been a photographer for 40 some years. Shot with many many cameras & formats. Rarely needed to make veery large prints - although for some commercial shoots have had very large prints or I should say PRINTED photos done on large format printers that only needed ~72 to 110 pixels per inch to make huge enlargements. 11' tall from a Nikon D300 (12mp I think) file.
Once had a 3 frame pano from my Phantom 3 Pro made into a billboard. THAT was cool....
But the viewing distance on those things was pretty far back and it worked.

What I want to know now is how large can I go with a Drone photo - single frame 20mp, and with multi frame panos of a QUALITY print. One that people will purchase & frame in their home.
I know that some of you do this now. I know with things like Gigapixel AI we can push the size a bit more. Inkjet prints can be very well done.
Some of my multi-row panos end up in the 30~50mp range in size, almost as big as my Nikon D850 as far as actual pixel dimensions.

So, what is realistic in the largest art quality print I can offer people. I don't want to say - "sure I can make a 20"x 60" pano" or larger, and have it looking crappy.
What are you all doing and what methods are you using to get to that size?

Example - the full size file of the image below after stitching is 11,180 x 2901 pixels or 37.26" x 9.27" @ 300ppi. How large can this go and still look excellent?View attachment 161802




Some beautiful Panos you guys are producing. I did a vertical pano of my children's school in the winter. The top of the frame was fractionally above the horizon and the rest of images were just point down and down and down. I think this was 4 or 5 stitched together in Photoshop. For Printing I uses WHCC in Minnesota as well as Bay color labs in California. H&H are another good Pro lab in the south east. I had to reduce this image down from 90 inches tall to 18 to get it to be accepted as downloadable. Plus, the image was taken in very low light from my M2P.


LCA_Panorama_Upright_Lucian_Bartosik_Photography_2022 Small file.jpg
 
Very cool. What’s the actual pixel dimensions of the full size?
And if those labs, do any of them let us do Panoramic prints, not standard sizes?
I need to find somebody in Chicago that does custom inkjet printing so I have more control over the size and papers, etc. I do miss having my own printer…
 
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Found this excellent video this morning. answered a lot of my questions. :

Still interested to know if any of you tried and liked any of the ups along software like Gigapixel AI
Although after seeing this I’m thinking I could only degrade the image. I know that when I used to have my RIP ( ImagePrint ) I almost always left any photo, and it’s native resolution, and let the printer software do any upscaling it needed to for larger prints, and they were excellent.
 
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And Robert - I've no issue working on my images. I'm not bad in Photoshop....
It's more a question of time. At what point is it not worth the time to keep working at it? A retired amateur who loves fiddling on the computer can afford more time than a working professional with a deadline…

(Using amateur and professional in their original sense, rather than as a measure of skill.)
 
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I need to find somebody in Chicago that does custom inkjet printing so I have more control over the size and papers, etc.
I know someone in Ottawa who does that, and has custom-printed for photographers internationally. Less convenient in terms of time, because of shipping, but excellent quality.

 
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Thanks CG.
Buy multi row panos I mean rather than a single row of shots from left to right that are stitched, we actually shoot several rows. Similar to what a camera does when it’s on an auto 360 x 1 80, but just a portion of that.

You look at the area that you want to shoot and I usually do a test swivel of the drone from left to right to see how much I’ll need to pan or how many shots I’ll need to pan to get the area that I want, with a 30 to 50% overlap on each shot.
Since I live in a big city, and I shoot a lot of skylines with buildings, I want to make sure that there is not a huge amount of distortion, so I will make sure that one of my rows is dead level.
A simple one row pano is start at the left, giving yourself some generous space on the end from where you intend to end the shot because you’ll end up cropping, shoot a frame, see where the centerpoint is (always use the grid , diagonal and center point guides) , then rotate to the right until whatever landmark in the photo quotes, such as a building, or a tree, or some other detail) center point reaches the edge of the frame, shoot another frame.
See what the center point is, rotate to the right, till that point reaches the edge of the frame, shoot a frame, then do it again. Now you have three frames for a pano.

For two rows, I’ll shoot the first frame paying attention to where my horizon line is and tip the camera down until the Horizon
reaches the upper 1/3 line and shoot, use your C-1 or C-2 button to recenter the gimbal, rotate until your centerpoint, hits the edge of the frame. Shoot a frame, tip the gimbal down a third shoot, re-center, rotate, and do it again.

Now you have 2 rows, 3 frames across with generous overlap so that Lightroom or Photoshop or whatever you use for stitching I have an easy time matching up details in the frame for a seamless stitch.

Takes longer to describe it than it does to shoot it. I’ve gotten very fast. And it’s much faster than hitting the auto nine frame three roll panel and waiting for it to stitch a subpar JPEG image in Camera because I’m shooting raw.

And you can continue this as much as you want you can do two, three, four, five, eight… Frames across and news two or three rows. But the farther you go from side to side if you go more than approximately 120° field of you start getting a little bit of a fisheye effect where the center is closer to you than the ends And the landscape starts to bend.
If you’re shooting rural landscapes, sometimes you can’t even tell, but the cityscapes you definitely will. But the most important thing in the city skyline is to make sure that you have at least one row tView attachment 161861hat’s completely level to anchor all those buildings without parallax distortion.

This one is prob 3 rows, maybe 4 frames accross. I’ll have to look at my original frames to be sure, but often on a scene like this my top row is level. Then I do two rows tipping down only. I See no point into tipping up and seeing an empty sky.
The advantage to doing it this way is twofold. First being, you can get closer to your foreground subjects and see more detail looking down into the area that’s near you and the second of course is that you end up with much greater resolution and detail in the scene then you would if you had to back off and shoot a single frame, that would encompass the whole area.

In my film days I had a 6 x 17 cm panoramic camera. My eye naturally looks at scenes in this format and I’m very comfortable with it.

View attachment 161861

Here’s one or I didn’t worry about keeping the buildings level. This is probably at least six frames across. It might be even seven. And the full resolution is huge. I could probably print this five or 6 feet wide. I don’t think it’s quite 180° field of you but it’s pretty close.
View attachment 161862
Wow, this is fantastic advice @jephoto! Thank you very much indeed
 
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Any tips and tricks for capturing and editing panos like the one above would be much appreciated!!
A lot of the problems with curved horizons etc can be solved by a combination of specifying horizontal/vertical lines in the stitching software and choosing the best projection for the scene.

I use PTGUI Pro, which isn't cheap but does an excellent job. I can identify both horizontal and vertical lines in individual photos for the stitching algorithm. I can also flip between different projections to see which one gives the best result.

 
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Understood. I’d never go less that 300dpi for an art print.
I’m asking what people here have done - and what printers/software and method of upsizing - if any, and what’s realistic.
The pano example I gave above I know can get a good print as is for the 37.26” @300 from a machine print or injet.
I know that Epson inkjets actually are optimal at 360dpi or multiples of.
And a single frame from my P4P I’ve printed 16x20 and a bit larger with a Costco injet (before they sold out to Shutterfly)

I want to know if I can go larger than the native res -like with Gigapixel AI- and still have it look good. Not good, excellent.
And who’s actually done it, and what lab or printer.
Also realize I need to tests, but want to get a feel for what others have done successfully.

Also don’t want to break the bank on prints.

Years ago I had an Epson 4000 inkjet. Took 17” rolls of paper and could print panoramas as long as I wanted. Did lot of excellent prints with it. Also had an expensive RIP software , ImagePrint to manage it and the color profiles.
I’m sure that made a difference too. But I didn’t print enough to keep the heads from getting clogged eventually. And the newer printers are way better now.
But not ready to spend on one of those yet.
Given the equipment you have used you should know that there is a difference between pixel peep and normal viewing distance. I used to have an Epson 7800 and have printed 24x36 from a Canon 5D that looks excellent from even 2 feet away. Get up close and you can see the leaves aren't as sharp as they appear. Now this is from a quality camera, FF sensor and L lenses.
What you're asking is to relate a much smaller sensor and lenses that fall far below the resolving capability of a full frame DSLR. So megapixels aren't really a factor unless you can determine what the resolving power of the drone lens is. That would be the determining factor in my mind.
 
Hi gang,

This is a question for people who are actually making QUALITY prints for sale. I've been a photographer for 40 some years. Shot with many many cameras & formats. Rarely needed to make veery large prints - although for some commercial shoots have had very large prints or I should say PRINTED photos done on large format printers that only needed ~72 to 110 pixels per inch to make huge enlargements. 11' tall from a Nikon D300 (12mp I think) file.
Once had a 3 frame pano from my Phantom 3 Pro made into a billboard. THAT was cool....
But the viewing distance on those things was pretty far back and it worked.

What I want to know now is how large can I go with a Drone photo - single frame 20mp, and with multi frame panos of a QUALITY print. One that people will purchase & frame in their home.
I know that some of you do this now. I know with things like Gigapixel AI we can push the size a bit more. Inkjet prints can be very well done.
Some of my multi-row panos end up in the 30~50mp range in size, almost as big as my Nikon D850 as far as actual pixel dimensions.

So, what is realistic in the largest art quality print I can offer people. I don't want to say - "sure I can make a 20"x 60" pano" or larger, and have it looking crappy.
What are you all doing and what methods are you using to get to that size?

Example - the full size file of the image below after stitching is 11,180 x 2901 pixels or 37.26" x 9.27" @ 300ppi. How large can this go and still look excellent?View attachment 161802
Upload it to discount canvas that will give you a good idea some of my Panos can print 110” on Pixels.com. ronald-Raymond.pixels.com.
 
BTW, I visited my local library this morning. it just had it's grand re-opening after a major rebuild... All the walls that did not have book racks in front of them had the artwork of local artists and photographers mounted and almost all the works had price tags on them... If I had wanted one, the library staff would call the artist/photographer and arrange a meet and I would deal directly with artist/photographer. The library only provides the venue for viewing...

Just a thought, check your local libraries, they might also have such a program to post your photos...
I've been a photographer for a few decades and belonged to different photo clubs, groups and organizations. We were always being asked to "show" our work at venues such as hospitals, libraries and eating establishments among the many.
Not one person has EVER made a sale from such a thing.
Place that advice squarely in the "if you shoot my event you'll get exposure" scam. These venues and such are getting free decorations with zero recompense. In fact, most times it costs the shooter money because they will want them all to look similar so you have to frame it to their specs. Nope. Done with that crap.
Also to the OP - I used my Epson 7800 a lot. Got it for portraiture, weddings and such. Got to where the last couple of generations don't want prints - they want stuff to post on Facebook and Instagram. The entire wedding photographic business model was built on selling prints and albums. Young folks these days couldn't care less about that stuff. Everything in their lives is transient and ephemeral.
I started selling prints to venues that sell home furnishings. The past 7 years had miserable sales. Not because people weren't buying (hint - keep it 18x24 or less) but because the venues started selling art cheap. It literally got to the point where with their cut and my costs it simply wasn't worth it. Near as bad as microstock. This is with me doing my own printing and frames. If you need to outsource that - well, hope you have better luck.
That's why I sold my printer to an artist that wanted to do mixed media and still debating about selling the framing equipment.
In summary IMHO prints are mostly dead except what commercial/contracted I can do which I outsource.
 
Upload it to discount canvas that will give you a good idea some of my Panos can print 110” on Pixels.com. ronald-Raymond.pixels.com.
Problem with those inexpensive canvas places is they (most in my experience) limit the photo submitted to JPEG and a relatively small size.
 
Thanks LT- I'm Part 107. Not an issue.

And Robert - I've no issue working on my images. I'm not bad in Photoshop....
This is with a Phantom 3 Pro. Don't think its multi-row, Prob can't go as big as ones I'm doing currently, but I do a lot of work on them.
selective noise reduction & sharpening, etc..
View attachment 161885
Have you used Topaz Photo AI yet? It is a mind blower for noise and sharpening.
 

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This from someone who has been in the large format printing business since ‘96 and tradeshow graphics: Contact the person you are going to have do your printing ask them what they need in a relationship to their printers. Ask The ice profile you should save it under ask them ARGB SRGB CMYK or XCMYK what file format they need PDF, PSD, Tiff etc.

150 PPI is usually bare minimum At finished size, depending on the printer they’re using anything over 240
~300 PPI is a waste, it depends on the picolitre droplet size of their printer. Your eye will not tell a difference.
You also need to take in consideration the viewing distance you will have from your print.

What media are you printing onto glossy material, Matt material, fabric, metal these are questions you should ask your printer.

* for those of you who enjoy printing you should really check out the ICC XCMYK profile it is a more accurate comparison of what you see on your backlit screen RGB to what comes out of your printer CMYK.

Hope this helps.
 
I've some considerable experience in photography and large format inkjet prints. My comment would be that there is probably no definitive answer to the question posed in the original post and the best answer is that "it depends". There are many variables in determining how large of a print can be made and ultimately it is the subjective determination made by each individual as to what is acceptable. Variables include the subject matter, lighting, focus, atmospheric conditionals, filtration, sharpness of the original image, skill in using post-processing tools, strengths and weaknesses of the tools themselves, among other things. One just has to take each image on its own to see what can be attained.
 
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Okay, I don't see his question about printing answered. I print all my prints at MIller's Lab go online, create an account, and print one. They are very reasonable and any file I have sent them in 20 years has come back much better than it ever looks on a monitor. Be sure to tell them to print with "competition density". If the resolution is good you should be able to get an enormous high-quality print. I have had them print 40" prints from average-size files. Miller's Professional Imaging. I was a professional Weeding and Portrait photographer for 20 years and I have had no complaints with their work.
 
So does a Weeding Photographer take pictures of plants, or of gardeners?
My guess is that a "Weeding" is what Gardeners call getting Married… ( L 🤣 L )
 
Thanks LT- I'm Part 107. Not an issue.

And Robert - I've no issue working on my images. I'm not bad in Photoshop....
This is with a Phantom 3 Pro. Don't think its Nox Vidmate VLC multi-row, Prob can't go as big as ones I'm doing currently, but I do a lot of work on them.
selective noise reduction & sharpening, etc..
View attachment 161885
 
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