Why doesn’t DJI enable 4G enhanced transmission in the US?

[solidhouse]

I am wondering why DJI doesn’t enable 4G enhanced transmission in the US. I’ve read that it is due to regulations. However, Parrot was able to do it with the Anafi Ai. That means it is possible to get permission.

It seems to me that having 4G transmission and control would be safer. It would allow the pilot to either fly at a much lower altitude or descend to a safe altitude with an approaching aircraft without risking losing signal.

 

[GFields]

It could be that DJI is a China-based company. Have you contacted them with your question?

 

[anotherlab]

I am wondering why DJI doesn’t enable 4G enhanced transmission in the US. I’ve read that it is due to regulations. However, Parrot was able to do it with the Anafi Ai. That means it is possible to get permission.

It seems to me that having 4G transmission and control would be safer. It would allow the pilot to either fly at a much lower altitude or descend to a safe altitude with an approaching aircraft without risking losing signal.

It's not something that you can just enable. You need to have a 4G radio in both the drone and the controller, each with its own data-only SIM card. The consumer now has to pay for the additional cost of the hardware, firmware development, and two data subscription plans.

You also have to factor in the extra lag time for the communications going from drone to cell tower to rc, and back again. The market that DJI is targetting for the most part doesn't need that extra expense. If you are flying within VLOS, you are probably not going to need a 4G connection.

 

[mavic3usa]

I am wondering why DJI doesn’t enable 4G enhanced transmission in the US. I’ve read that it is due to regulations. However, Parrot was able to do it with the Anafi Ai. That means it is possible to get permission.

It seems to me that having 4G transmission and control would be safer. It would allow the pilot to either fly at a much lower altitude or descend to a safe altitude with an approaching aircraft without risking losing signal.

It's funny you don't hear much about the true benefits of 4G transmission. I would expect it to be all over the Internet if it was so spectacular but I haven't really found a video which shows off the strengths or the advantages over non-4G systems considering the extra costs, etc. Do you have anything that paints a better picture? I ask because no matter how good it is, if customers don't demand it then it's not likely to be pushed out sooner than later.

Besides long range 20 miles videos (which are useless IMO), so far I have found the first video which shows off what the tech can do and the second video which shows a demo but I may see it differently than some, on a good day my Mavic can probably do the same if not come close:

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[anotherlab]

A 4G connection is not a panacea for bad connections. I work on a team that does live telematics over 4G in the school transportation market. You can easily drop a connection and the latency time will be longer than a direction connection. The advantage that 4G (and 5G) has over Wi-Fi/Occusync is distance. Which for a consumer operating under VLOS rules is less of an issue.

The Anafi Ai drone mentioned by the OP retails for $4,500 USD. That's a different weight class than the Mavic series.

 

[EssenYVR]

I recently returned from a road trip from southern BC to Alaska. Probably around 80% of the drone footage I shot was in areas where there was no cell phone coverage at all. 4G transmission would have been useless for that.

 

[Skydreamer]

from what i v seen,dji 4g module is unlocked in countrys like Brazil,Greece and few others ,not US.

 

[tlyons]

I am wondering why DJI doesn’t enable 4G enhanced transmission in the US. I’ve read that it is due to regulations. However, Parrot was able to do it with the Anafi Ai. That means it is possible to get permission.

It seems to me that having 4G transmission and control would be safer. It would allow the pilot to either fly at a much lower altitude or descend to a safe altitude with an approaching aircraft without risking losing signal.

To throw some ideas on the table:
1. 4G LTE modules can be bought on Amazon for ~$15 *today*. Data plans are cheap.
2. Outside of the locked down DJI world, hacking to use LTE modules is not unusual.
3. Latency is not that big a deal, some say ~50ms. The '80s is long gone and it is rare to have a noticeable lag in voice conversations why would there be for control data? For high res video, people report it can lag and break up in weak coverage. In any case, fully autonomous waypoint flights are pretty common.
4. Here's a real world example: GitHub - uavpal/beboptwo4g: 4G/LTE softmod for the Parrot Bebop 2 and here's an example of 10 mile flight with a different drone. There was also a battery hack. Note the date on the video. There's other examples of 50km flights.

The sad side to DJI's dominance in the market is that if they don't want a technology, then no one else is left that has the economy of scale to develop it. The upside is products like the Mini 3 Pro offer astonishing performance for the price in the areas where DJI wants to.

 

[anotherlab]

To throw some ideas on the table:
1. 4G LTE modules can be bought on Amazon for ~$15 *today*. Data plans are cheap.
2. Outside of the locked down DJI world, hacking to use LTE modules is not unusual.
3. Latency is not that big a deal, some say ~50ms. The '80s is long gone and it is rare to have a noticeable lag in voice conversations why would there be for control data? For high res video, people report it can lag and break up in weak coverage. In any case, fully autonomous waypoint flights are pretty common.
4. Here's a real world example: GitHub - uavpal/beboptwo4g: 4G/LTE softmod for the Parrot Bebop 2 and here's an example of 10 mile flight with a different drone. There was also a battery hack. Note the date on the video. There's other examples of 50km flights.

The sad side to DJI's dominance in the market is that if they don't want a technology, then no one else is left that has the economy of scale to develop it. The upside is products like the Mini 3 Pro offer astonishing performance for the price in the areas where DJI wants to.

While you can add $15 to the cost of the drone and most people wouldn't notice, most people would balk at paying for two data plans. You need a data SIM (or eSIM) for the drone and another for the remote. Or the remote has to be tethered to your phone.

4G latency is higher than 50 ms. Most sources would list it as between 65 to 100 ms. That's one way, you need to double to account for using the RC to respond to what you would see on the screen. Occusync 3 has <40ms for video and 5 ms for RC commands.

Talking at 10 mi flight for consumer hardware is kind of pointless, that's well beyond the visual line of sight.

I can see offering 4G/5G an option on a $4500 drone, it just doesn't make sense for $1000 drone.

 

[basyok]

from what i v seen,dji 4g module is unlocked in countrys like Brazil,Greece and few others ,not US.

Can you link to info about it being unlocked in Greece? It appears to be locked in Mexico, at least for Telcel, the main telecom.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Because it promotes BVLOS operation, which is basically illegal everywhere.

4G transmitters are more enjoyable on fixed wing/vtol drones, as you can do 50Km trips or more, on quads you are usually bottle necked by the battery anyway.

 

[Skydreamer]

Can you link to info about it being unlocked in Greece? It appears to be locked in Mexico, at least for Telcel, the main telecom.

dji forum has few topics about 4g module,from what i can tell it works in brazil,australia,china,Turkey and greece,russia,it doesnt work in us,europe,central america etc
i emailed dji about 4g module in us and i was told that dji doesnt have any plans of unlocking 4g in us,so i ordered new Fimi X8Pro drone,snow and rainproof +it will have 4g module option that should work in all countrys….lets wait and seem

 

[BOREAS]

Can you link to info about it being unlocked in Greece? It appears to be locked in Mexico, at least for Telcel, the main telecom.

Try Μονάδα DJI 4G Cellular Dongle (Ασύρματο τερματικό δεδομένων TD-LTE) | COPTERS.GR

 

[basyok]

dji forum has few topics about 4g module,from what i can tell it works in brazil,australia,china,Turkey and greece,russia,it doesnt work in us,europe,central america etc
i emailed dji about 4g module in us and i was told that dji doesnt have any plans of unlocking 4g in us,so i ordered new Fimi X8Pro drone,snow and rainproof +it will have 4g module option that should work in all countrys….lets wait and seem

I've searched on this topic a lot, but have never seen info about it with regards to Greece. And, but the way, Greece is a part of Europe.

Try Μονάδα DJI 4G Cellular Dongle (Ασύρματο τερματικό δεδομένων TD-LTE) | COPTERS.GR

Thanks! Εθχαριστώ!

 

[Skydreamer]

I've searched on this topic a lot, but have never seen info about it with regards to Greece. And, but the way, Greece is a part of Europe.


Thanks! Εθχαριστώ!

i cant find post,or forum,dont remeber which forum it was,i just rember someone posting”it works in greece” ……..here is post how some guys got it to work outside china…might help your research

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[WanderLost]

To throw some ideas on the table:
1. 4G LTE modules can be bought on Amazon for ~$15 *today*. Data plans are cheap.
2. Outside of the locked down DJI world, hacking to use LTE modules is not unusual.
3. Latency is not that big a deal, some say ~50ms. The '80s is long gone and it is rare to have a noticeable lag in voice conversations why would there be for control data? For high res video, people report it can lag and break up in weak coverage. In any case, fully autonomous waypoint flights are pretty common.
4. Here's a real world example: GitHub - uavpal/beboptwo4g: 4G/LTE softmod for the Parrot Bebop 2 and here's an example of 10 mile flight with a different drone. There was also a battery hack. Note the date on the video. There's other examples of 50km flights.

The sad side to DJI's dominance in the market is that if they don't want a technology, then no one else is left that has the economy of scale to develop it. The upside is products like the Mini 3 Pro offer astonishing performance for the price in the areas where DJI wants to.

I'm confused. I thought the issue with 4G was with the FCC not allowing it in the US. I can't imagine DJI not enabling it if it was possible - they'd make more money right? I think that there may be talks going on at the FAA considering this option for industry - inspections, search and rescue, survey and mapping. But for consumer drones - yeah - not really a huge priority for the FAA and FCC.

 

[Skydreamer]

from what i can tell dji controls who and where 4g dongle can be used(subscribe,pay,enjoy)

 

[mavic3usa]

from what i can tell dji controls who and where 4g dongle can be used(subscribe,pay,enjoy)

This model will not be successful in America. The manufacturer who controls the subscription won't fly (no pun intended). It may be the subject for another thread but it's never going to work unless the mobile carriers get involved. In America, that means TMo, VZW, ATT. When they are ready, we get this. Until then, it's not much more than a concept.

 

[WanderLost]

While you can add $15 to the cost of the drone and most people wouldn't notice, most people would balk at paying for two data plans. You need a data SIM (or eSIM) for the drone and another for the remote. Or the remote has to be tethered to your phone.

4G latency is higher than 50 ms. Most sources would list it as between 65 to 100 ms. That's one way, you need to double to account for using the RC to respond to what you would see on the screen. Occusync 3 has <40ms for video and 5 ms for RC commands.

Talking at 10 mi flight for consumer hardware is kind of pointless, that's well beyond the visual line of sight.

I can see offering 4G/5G an option on a $4500 drone, it just doesn't make sense for $1000 drone.

Anafi says 300 ms latency for their 4G connections.

 

[WanderLost]

from what i can tell dji controls who and where 4g dongle can be used(subscribe,pay,enjoy)

Nope - it's a hang-up at the FCC not wanting to grant permission for DJI drones to access the 4G network. Here's a quote from a US pilot:
"long before a drone is released they apply for fcc id with us gubbment. an one person there has actively been making things more difficult for dji. he is the one that refused to allow the issuance of the fcc id with the dongle active. unfortunately for us customers, its in the fcc id. that dongle won't be active unless they settle that regulation."

Once the FCC allows access, then yes, you will also need a subscription from DJI in order to fly with 4G. As others have said here - for drones, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense with our limited range and battery life. And the 300 ms latency (according to Anafi specs anyway) it might be annoying to fly that way.