Why the hatin on drones?

[tcope]

Awful analogy. Cars are an upgrade to horses, while drones aren't an upgrade to anything.

RC aircraft? KAP rigs?

 

[Daryls2000]

It’s true that anyone can fly a drone, easily when the tech works. But from what I’ve seen on this forum a vast number of beginner drone pilots make mistakes that are completely avoidable. I used to fly RC aircraft but have recently converted to drones but, not for flying rather for photography. They are an amazing flying camera because of their stability, which for most Rc pilots makes them boring. Of course I’m just talking about the DJI type drones, the racing drone are a completely different creature.
Of course for every million responsible drone pilots there is that one guy who’s only goal is to get as many views as possible on YouTube. They are the people threatening all aspects of aviation.
Once the government gets involved with the regulation of an activity it never works out for the good.

Just my two cents.

Cheers everyone
Fly safe.

 

[lmel2005]

It’s true that anyone can fly a drone, easily when the tech works. But from what I’ve seen on this forum a vast number of beginner drone pilots make mistakes that are completely avoidable. I used to fly RC aircraft but have recently converted to drones but, not for flying rather for photography. They are an amazing flying camera because of their stability, which for most Rc pilots makes them boring. Of course I’m just talking about the DJI type drones, the racing drone are a completely different creature.
Of course for every million responsible drone pilots there is that one guy who’s only goal is to get as many views as possible on YouTube. They are the people threatening all aspects of aviation.
Once the government gets involved with the regulation of an activity it never works out for the good.

Just my two cents.

Cheers everyone
Fly safe.

I agree with Darils2000 comment.

Stabilized drones, are an upgrade to handheld cameras.

Racing drones are an upgrade to RC planes and helicopters.

The major upgrade of course, is DIGITAL technology, over analog technology.

There is a long lasting debate, about digital technology "destroying" music, driving, cinema, photography, book reading etc. Now drones destroyed RC flying hobby. Not real, in my opinion.

In terms of cost, drones are an expensive hobby, as serious RC modelling is. Everyone can fly an RC thermal helicopter, if he has the money and time to practice. Same with drones (racing drones especially).

In terms of security, it is far more secure to fly a drone over people heads, than fly a model RC aircraft. RC AC hobbiests, were always flying in places with no people, vehicles and animals. Nothing has been changed.

Always there will be irresponsible drivers, pilots, drone users, athlets, cyclists and doctors. And governments will always try to regulate every activity.

But technology will go on, and this cannot be stopped. Some day in the future, drone lovers will claim that supersonic rocket flyers destroyed their hobby. [emoji6]

 

[Thwyllo]

Not sure what your"digital versus analogue" argument is about. RC aircraft have been using digital proportional radio control since the 1960s.

 

[lmel2005]

Not sure what your"digital versus analogue" argument is about. RC aircraft have been using digital proportional radio control since the 1960s.

RC aircraft hobby, pre-existed the digital revolution. Of course digital technology has helped this hobby too.

Multicopters are totally digital. They couldn't exist without digital technology. They cannot fly without a firmware.

 

[M3d4r]

Meh,

A decent racing or acro chopper will outmove a racing drone by a large margin. Those things are running more advanced tech then we are.

 

[Thwyllo]

Check out this excerpt from the British Model Flyers Association website under "Achievements:"

Unfortunately, internal club disputes are relatively common and we are often called on to advise or mediate, several recently have escalated to the point of legal actions not to mention alleged and actual physical assaults requiring Police involvement.

The British Model Flying Association > Join/Renew > Why join the BMFA

Maybe some of you have an overly romanticized memory of what used to be.

Feel free to explain the difference between that and the disputes that frequently break out even on a highly moderated forum like this one? People will always be people and the comment you selectively highlight bears no relation to the issue of safe, responsible flying.

 

[Thwyllo]

RC aircraft hobby, pre-existed the digital revolution. Of course digital technology has helped this hobby too.

Multicopters are totally digital. They couldn't exist without digital technology. They cannot fly without a firmware.

Your statement as it stands is untrue. In order to fly, a multirotor model requires nothing more than remote control of the individual motor speeds, easily achieved using servos. An even simpler servo solution would be to have tilting motors (that therefore tilt the rotor disk and affect direction). A servo is a digital proportional device as I mentioned in my post; in other words move the stick a bit and the servo moves a bit, move it a lot and the servo moves a lot. Prior to the 1960s when digital proportional RC was introduced, it didn't matter how much you moved the stick, the servo operated in a binary fashion and whanged across to its fullest extent of movement, making flying RC models a much more challenging experience than it is today. You clearly underestimate the ingenuity of the RC model community

 

[lmel2005]

Your statement as it stands is untrue. In order to fly, a multirotor model requires nothing more than remote control of the individual motor speeds, easily achieved using servos. An even simpler servo solution would be to have tilting motors (that therefore tilt the rotor disk and affect direction). A servo is a digital proportional device as I mentioned in my post; in other words move the stick a bit and the servo moves a bit, move it a lot and the servo moves a lot. Prior to the 1960s when digital proportional RC was introduced, it didn't matter how much you moved the stick, the servo operated in a binary fashion and whanged across to its fullest extent of movement, making flying RC models a much more challenging experience than it is today. You clearly underestimate the ingenuity of the RC model community

No I don't underestimate someone's ingenuity. Every flying (or not) model, is a great piece of technology. Including drones.

RC community uses analog and digital servos. Everyone can google the differences, and what RC hobbyists prefer more.

Drones (in this forum all of us know the term) use digital tech for motor control, positioning, stabilization, image processing, and communicating with the RC. I don't know any drone with analog servos, but I know some hobbyists flying aircrafts with analog servos (and they are very ingenious).

Multirotors are a new category, and they are not models of bigger machines.

I will agree with you that drones are radio controlled unmanned aircrafts, as other RC models are. This means that "RC community " should include "drone users".

 

[Chip]

Feel free to explain the difference between that and the disputes that frequently break out even on a highly moderated forum like this one? People will always be people and the comment you selectively highlight bears no relation to the issue of safe, responsible flying.

You and I agree that "people are people." That was actually my main point! I was making tongue in cheek response to comments suggesting that RC flyers are smarter and better than drone flyers whose stupidity and immorality have ruined aviation for everybody.

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

The AMA is making a concerted effort to reach out to the quad/drone community. Their motivation is two-fold: 1) Man -- that's a lot of new membership dues!, and 2) By making quad/drone fliers part of the community they can better educate and self-police the hobby.

Anyway, quads/drones got me into other RC stuff, including planes. (BTW - if you've never flown an RC plane, it's the most exciting 30 seconds of your life. Then you crash. LOL).

 

[LeighD]

Sound a lot like the way airplane pilots fly their airplanes to me.

I joined the local RC Airplane club when I bought my Mavic Pro. I was basically looking for a safe place to learn to fly the drone and perhaps some folks who shared my interest in drones. I got the safe place to fly, but frankly wasn't exactly welcomed to the ranks.

You’re right about RC clubs. They think they are better than drone enthusiasts, not just in skill but overall. When I flew there, a friend with an RC Jet was in that club and he was always nice to me but if I went there by myself a couple guys came up to me and asked if I was an AMA member (a requirement there, to use their airport, which is a miniature landing strip and tables and official signs on the fence etc), and then they watched my every move and said “can you see that?” and so forth, because a Mavic is sort of silent at line of sight, smaller than an RC PLANE, and not always moving in an easy to follow direction as it gets more distant. So I went out fairly quickly and then sharply higher and came back above the airfield and just hovered, filming downward as others watched me. He said, “well I’ve got pretty good eyes and I can’t see it”, to which I said, “ well it’s definitely visible to me I’m just not looking at it right now.” (It was directly overhead in a 7-10 mph wind, about 275 ft altitude. He was being a nazi airport geek, and not a guy asking friendly questions. Finally I slowly descended and he still didn’t hear it, perhaps because others were tuning planes and warming up engines. Theirs is not as quiet a sport. He was seemingly annoyed when at about 60’ he heard it and looked up. Others have expressed true fascination and I’ve engaged in fun chats about capabilities with them.
As for the guy flying in the national forest, I am aware you cannot fly in National Parks but learned something today IF he is right that you CAN fly in the National Forests.

 

[macoman]

You’re right about RC clubs. They think they are better than drone enthusiasts, not just in skill but overall. When I flew there, a friend with an RC Jet was in that club and he was always nice to me but if I went there by myself a couple guys came up to me and asked if I was an AMA member (a requirement there, to use their airport, which is a miniature landing strip and tables and official signs on the fence etc), and then they watched my every move and said “can you see that?” and so forth, because a Mavic is sort of silent at line of sight, smaller than an RC PLANE, and not always moving in an easy to follow direction as it gets more distant. So I went out fairly quickly and then sharply higher and came back above the airfield and just hovered, filming downward as others watched me. He said, “well I’ve got pretty good eyes and I can’t see it”, to which I said, “ well it’s definitely visible to me I’m just not looking at it right now.” (It was directly overhead in a 7-10 mph wind, about 275 ft altitude. He was being a nazi airport geek, and not a guy asking friendly questions. Finally I slowly descended and he still didn’t hear it, perhaps because others were tuning planes and warming up engines. Theirs is not as quiet a sport. He was seemingly annoyed when at about 60’ he heard it and looked up. Others have expressed true fascination and I’ve engaged in fun chats about capabilities with them.
As for the guy flying in the national forest, I am aware you cannot fly in National Parks but learned something today IF he is right that you CAN fly in the National Forests.

I only went one time to an AMA field area within a state park and never will do it again. Like you said, obviously this is for AMA members and you need to be registered to fly in their field but the way they seen drones are kind of an unwelcome experience. I understand that this is a new technology that their members seen to be stuck in the old school RC fixed wing airplanes type and helicopters and also the field is so small that to me it's not worthy the membership price if you only have a drone which in any case you can fly everywhere, in a public park or remote area.

 

[Clockman]

Drone operators are usually the ones flying irresponsibly in ways they aren't supposed to in areas they aren't meant to. That gets lumped on the RC community as a whole. He has a point.



And he's entirely correct. The latest generation of drones you dont fly, you simply operate and move. They fly themselves. They maintain position, heading, speed, altitude and everything else with no operator input at all. You let go of the sticks and it stays exactly where it is in 3 dimensions - try that with a helicopter!
You need no knowledge of aerodynamics, weather effects or how to actually fly to operate a drone.
Essentially they're a really big movable camera tripod.

You don't "pilot" or "fly" a mavic in the strictest sense - you simply operate its onboard computers and tell it what you want to do. The computers then decide HOW to do it and fly it.

A lot of RC operators built their birds from scratch, they have intimate mechanical knowledge of the built, the weak points, the strong points, what each part does, how the systems work, how to fix things. Most drone owners struggle to even make the effort to read the manual or change a damaged prop!

The 2 disciplines are incomparable in terms of knowledge and skillset required.

Not all drone pilots "struggle to even make the effort to read the manual or change a damaged prop!" as you put it. I made it a point to dig into my Phantoms and Mavics to see what goes on inside. Now I rebuild them and I have a lot of time invested into the drones I fly.

 

[C_Greg]

I think he is correct in that anyone and their mother can fly a drone. This means any idiot can spend the money and do dumb things with it. However, tech has improved which not only makes this possible but also makes them _far_ more useful. So, for example, the same thing could be said about the car vs horse. Cars ruined it for people who rode horses. It is still a natural progression.

I think anyone can do basic flight with a Mavic Air or Pro, but there are many drones you can't fly easily. The issue with acceptance is more complex. I fly real airplanes (both powered and gliders), RC aircraft (gas and electric), (tried RC Helicopters, not my cup of tea) and now drones. You can set the flight control to be exactly like an airplane, with the exception of that great controlled hover. I can't seem to get the drone to do a wing-over or barrel roll, tried it and crashed, but that is purely a software issue. Drones are in the wild, and like the early days of RC flight, some folks are not very accepting, but having been part of every community, some folks will just be resistive. I let some of the RC guys here locally fly my drone, and before long, I noticed they had Mavic bags in their cars and were getting great aerial photos of their RC craft. Maybe, we need to be careful how we fly, and that we stay within the rules, but also, it might be good to share the experience with some of those who act like it is not an "aircraft" and let them feel the joy of flying one. I now have my Mavic Air set up with a full sized Ipad as the video part of the controller, and get to take photos of some really cool stuff, as well as enjoying the feeling of being in flight at a much lowered expense. It ain't an F-14, but it is still a thrill to fly. Just my two cents...

 

[BJR981S]

Well he said Gyro before, but sent me a video and it looked like an old style bubble front glass helicopter to me.

I also fly both Fixed Pitch and Collective Pitch RC Helicopters. Fixed pitch and collective pitch with a flybar requires a Gyro to operate. Flybarless Collective pitch Helicopters require a flybarless flight controller.

So his description is quite valid. As are his comments. Its unfortunate but true that as anyone can fly a drone; Including my 5 year old Granddaughter the irresponsible can fly their drones without any guidance or training. The training we had to learn to fly fixed wing and helicopters.

 

[C_Greg]

Awful analogy. Cars are an upgrade to horses, while drones aren't an upgrade to anything.

Drones, were an upgrade to combat and recon manned aircraft (in military use) but they are a very stable platform to perform some good work. I did an inspection of the rain gutters on my home after they were cleaned. Kept me off a 35 foot ladder, and I had photos to show the contractor when I called him back to redo the job. They help a lot with other tasks, I was able to photograph a nest of humming birds, as they hatched, and it was very cool to do. One of my favorites was watching my 12 year old daughter uses her paddleboard on the lake behind our house, and I felt like if she got into trouble I could go help her. Now I know it took about 5 batteries and I had to go back and forth, but it still made me feel she was safer. Drones are not really an upgrade in the commercial world, they are an innovation. They change how we do tasks and make them safer. At least for me, mine are more than toys, they are also tools.

 

[Classic flyer]

Two things - did you mean gyro or helicopter? They aren't the same thing?

Secondly he's absolutely right. RC control aircraft used to be a niche activity largely restricted to a responsible community of enthusiasts who usually fly from suitable sites and have a decent set of common sense safety principles. They spend a lot of money on their hobby and a lot of hours building the models they fly, so they fly them responsibly because they don't want to undo all the hard work they put in.

Now, sadly for them, they're lumped in with every Tom **** and Harry that can go out and buy and fly a drone with no investment other than a financial one - and even that can be insured against of course. So there's a spotlight on them too that wasn't there before, not to mention a bunch of regulations they probably didn't need or want.

Tell em sir

 

[Classic flyer]

they dont like ****,cant ya tell,
all of us old codgers have virgin ears,thank god they look after us

That would be the government looking after you...lol

 

[raymo]

I wondered about that, but was strongly encouraged to join during the conversation I had with one of the club officers prior to joining up. He was a bit more open about drones. He realized it was something the club needed to embrace. Don't think most of the membership shared his enthusiasm.

Most of you are too young to remember "free-flight". Man, when those RCers started showing up, who did they think they were? You didn't even have to hardly trim your aircraft any more cause you could just set the servo trim to compensate. And then along came programable controllers with reversible, non-linear control. If you hooked up your servo backward, Meh! Just flip a switch. Those guys were just rich and lazy. Believe me, I saw it. I didn't seriously fly RC since 1971 for nothing. Free-flight and control line before that. BTW, control liners don't generally mix well with RCers. Huh! I flew RC in parks with my small models. Really! We did RC flight demonstrations in parks. Really! And BTW, in the 70s, we flew RC at full-blown airshows. I flew either a big pattern bird or something that would tow a streamer really well, while my buddy flew his amazing NON-GYRO stabilized helicopters. It was awesome. You couldn't get near those places now. And how about those pylon racers? 180 mph+ and crowds not too far away, totally loving it. 13 mid-airs later, I packed it in on racing. (The #1 pylon was a 1/4" plate steel cage, just in case!) Huh! I don't now fly UAVs because it's easy and anyone can do it. I do it because I actually enjoy it. I did my time in RC with my latest bird "The Beast" biplane. Loved it but my Mavic is definitely different. And I wind up getting some amazing aerial footage that was hard to get with my Beast plus I've been able to do some amazing mapping with both my Phantom and Mavic. So let those old RCers gripe if they must. They don't seem to have a whole lot to say about electric fixed-wing birds that have flight controllers in them. Interesting. Folks, it's a changing world. I might add that in the RC club I belong to, and I've belonged to clubs since 1971, we are restricted to flying inside a "box" that severely restricts large scale aircraft like my Beast. Maybe should see if those guys who say drones fly themselves can fly a 250 racing drone. I'll give them 10 seconds before they crash. Just my 2 cents worth, just not in Canada!! HAPPY DRONING!!!!!!!!