Zooming exposure issue - surely its not just me?

[supernicko]

Hey guys first post pretty new, first drone m2z - my issue is abiding by the 30fps/60shutter speed rule -manual settings using ND - no worries (pain in the butt switching them during golden hour as the light changes but thats another story)...

So settings fixed ie: iso 100, 30fps 1/60 - good exposure... wide shot no worries - now zoom in whilst still shooting - aperture auto stops down and the shot gets dark.

Is there a setting I'm missing to EITHER force the higher aperture (i dont think so as its a fixed physical aperture that only adjusts with the zoom location) so that i can keep a single exposure setting OR an auto ISO bump to compensate the drop on the same curve incrementally with the zoom length? i cant find anyone else whinging but if its pushing the lower acceptable exposure as light fades, and then i zoom in - its even worse. Not such an issue in auto as it compensates - or does everyone just shoot auto and no do the whole fuss for the manual settings?

Ideas? I cant be the only one... needs ability to auto bump iso im thinking as the only firmware way around it - i can see in auto that it does do small 10 increments of iso i think....

Keen for your thoughts and or similar experiences?!
Cheers Nicko (Perth Australia)

 

[DanMan32]

I don't believe the aperture changes with the zoom, unless it is inherent to zooming. It's otherwise a fixed aperture.
I assume you have AE off or locked? The shutter speed being 2x frame rate is a guide. You don't have to keep it to the letter if you have an exposure problem. A bit higher ISO won't hurt either, and might be a better means of increasing exposure so that you meet the shutter 2x frame rate.
Actually you'll have to have ISO or shutter speed adjusted since those are your only degrees of freedom, being that there's no variable aperture on the Zoom, and you'll not likely have exactly the correct amount of light for exactly 100 ISO, 1/60 shutter. Even if you had continuously variable ND to precisely control the light coming in, you can't change that mid flight.

 

[supernicko]

To simplify - when you have manual camera settings ON - the image gets darker as you zoom.

thanks Dan for the reply - i think it is inherent with the zoom - ie at 24mm its f 2.8 and at 48mm its f 3.8. Once setting 'M'anual controls ae locking etc isnt available anymore.

So fixing everything else in an ideal situation leads to it forcing an exposure change while zooming... be it underexposed zooming in, overexposed zooming out - depending where you "zero" it.

Pretty sure photogs should be seeing it too like me? Only situation whereby you CANT control it - is a shot that uses the zoom. Technically you could adjust it for wide/narrow each time... (insert painful face) or the software should lock the EV and auto swing the iso to compensate - assuming it can slide it along smoothly.

 

[Aaron24]

Hey guys first post pretty new, first drone m2z - my issue is abiding by the 30fps/60shutter speed rule -manual settings using ND - no worries (pain in the butt switching them during golden hour as the light changes but thats another story)...

So settings fixed ie: iso 100, 30fps 1/60 - good exposure... wide shot no worries - now zoom in whilst still shooting - aperture auto stops down and the shot gets dark.

Is there a setting I'm missing to EITHER force the higher aperture (i dont think so as its a fixed physical aperture that only adjusts with the zoom location) so that i can keep a single exposure setting OR an auto ISO bump to compensate the drop on the same curve incrementally with the zoom length? i cant find anyone else whinging but if its pushing the lower acceptable exposure as light fades, and then i zoom in - its even worse. Not such an issue in auto as it compensates - or does everyone just shoot auto and no do the whole fuss for the manual settings?

Ideas? I cant be the only one... needs ability to auto bump iso im thinking as the only firmware way around it - i can see in auto that it does do small 10 increments of iso i think....

Keen for your thoughts and or similar experiences?!
Cheers Nicko (Perth Australia)

I think this is a known problem.

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I have noticed also when zooming in when filming video the image becomes over exposed.

 

[supernicko]

I think this is a known problem.

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I have noticed also when zooming in when filming video the image becomes over exposed.

Gday Aaron yeah i had seen this vid cheers - his effect was the auto balance freaking out with the aperture change - same deal i spose in manual where if it did auto adjust the iso to compensate it wouldnt be perfect and likely look glitchy too

 

[Kilrah]

It's not a constant aperture zoom lens.
If you want even exposure while zooming you have to stay in auto so shutter speed can autoadjust to compensate. But then auto will adjust exposure based on content so for some scenes that may not work perfect either if content changes too much as you zoom. There's just no perfect solution.

Another way is to stay locked in manual and adjust with keyframes in post.

 

[CanadaDrone]

The lens on the Mavic 2 Zoom does change it's aperture, it drops all the way down to F3.8 at 48mm which is almost an entire stop under F2.8 where it is at 24mm. You are going to need to slow shutter speed or raise ISO proportionate to that in order to keep an even exposure. A lot of people probably don't realize this as the user does not have aperture control, and think it's an issue with the drone. You need to use one of the Auto modes if you want this change to happen automatically for you, but that introduces another set of issues getting even footage. Best not to zoom in flight during important moments, IMHO, and change exposure manually after zooming.

 

[supernicko]

Cheers Kilrah and CD -

i guess i was so fixed on keeping it 1/60 for 30fps i havent reallly just left it in auto and taken shots. I had always attributed watching many YouTube vids and the stuttering background with a mismatch of the shutter speed and cringe at its distraction. I always knew about the aperture difference at both ends - i just hadnt thought about it when fixing the other settings. I do though think an option for an auto ISO to balance the EV could be a viable option for those shooting M. Even if it only kicked in while zooming in or out - and the increments would be mapped and the same every time for each mm - so the theory is there - though I would have thought the amount of online vids professing the M settings/double shutter rule would have had more of a whinge about how it affects the shot.. especially on a camera centric drone, specifically utilising a zoom lens ?!

 

[CanadaDrone]

Cheers Kilrah and CD -

i guess i was so fixed on keeping it 1/60 for 30fps i havent reallly just left it in auto and taken shots. I had always attributed watching many YouTube vids and the stuttering background with a mismatch of the shutter speed and cringe at its distraction. I always knew about the aperture difference at both ends - i just hadnt thought about it when fixing the other settings. I do though think an option for an auto ISO to balance the EV could be a viable option for those shooting M. Even if it only kicked in while zooming in or out - and the increments would be mapped and the same every time for each mm - so the theory is there - though I would have thought the amount of online vids professing the M settings/double shutter rule would have had more of a whinge about how it affects the shot.. especially on a camera centric drone, specifically utilising a zoom lens ?!

Small changes in shutter speed are usually OK. In fact 1/60 is often too slow if you are flying quickly and close to something, everything will be blurred too much. The stuttering happens at really high shutter speeds like 1/500 or 1/1000 and is exaggerated by constantly moving subjects such as ocean waves. Don't be afraid to go to 1/80 or 1/100 if you need to, I doubt you will notice any difference at all except the footage being a little more sharp if you are flying quickly or close to your subject. There is definitely some leeway for personal preference as the 2X shutter 'rule' is a subjective one not a mathematical one.

 

[supernicko]

Small changes in shutter speed are usually OK. In fact 1/60 is often too slow if you are flying quickly and close to something, everything will be blurred too much. The stuttering happens at really high shutter speeds like 1/500 or 1/1000 and is exaggerated by constantly moving subjects such as ocean waves. Don't be afraid to go to 1/80 or 1/100 if you need to, I doubt you will notice any difference at all except the footage being a little more sharp if you are flying quickly or close to your subject. There is definitely some leeway for personal preference as the 2X shutter 'rule' is a subjective one not a mathematical one.

Good to know Kilrah - may well mean i dont need to nail the ND so precisely and can worry a bit more about just getting the shot. I had worried the double rule must have also had something to do internally with rolling shutter effect or the like but hadnt yet done any reading on that. (just seeing trees jumping/stuttering when people pan too fast and had wondered.)

 

[DanMan32]

Jumping/stuttering I believe is how it displays in playback. I noticed that too lately. If you freeze frame, you'll likely see the individual frames are good.

 

[AlexSP]

It´s the same with any camera in fact. Basically zooming in just lowers the quantity of light captured by the lens, you can compesate that on a DSLR speed and aperture but not on the M2Z, it´s better in manual but still has some limitations and compromises. It´s OK for daytime photo/film but as light becomes more scarce it´ll show more issues.

 

[supernicko]

It´s the same with any camera in fact. Basically zooming in just lowers the quantity of light captured by the lens, you can compesate that on a DSLR speed and aperture but not on the M2Z, it´s better in manual but still has some limitations and compromises. It´s OK for daytime photo/film but as light becomes more scarce it´ll show more issues.

Cheers Alex - yeah the aperture of the m2z does actually change so you cant lock an exposure. I think at the very least for the cash that the pro can have its aperture changing HQ mode and the zoom should have got either aperture adjust or a fixed aperture across zoom ranges. It is supposed to be a drone dedicated to imagery more than just fun flying

On my F2.8 /F4 L lenses it is a fixed aperture across the zoom range - so zooming in doesnt lower the light- it just re-frames a new scene with exactly the same exposure settings. (usually how i shoot a wide shot is zoom in, check the subject is properly exposed - lock exposure then zoom back out...) its just the photography mechanic in me that is on a new learning curve with gear that is acting differently. In a camera, while on a variable aperture zoom - its done in manual by picking the narrower aperture... ie my 100-400 when shooting kids or when on safari - i would select f5.6 or higher so that when i was at 100mm or 400mm my exposure didnt change with the forced aperture change... important with moving targets/ and video