State and National Parks No Fly Zone

[Tymaxboy]

I've been traveling around with work the last few months and I'm am so tired of this no fly zone over state and national parks.
I understand their foolish reason for it but it is just that, a foolish reason.
I was told by a attorney who focuses on sUAS laws that these rules were passed because no one fought against them.
Recently, I was in San Francisco. What wild life are they concerned about on Alcatraz that it has a no fly zone over it? Most of the Western shore line is blocked as well. Then I go to a Regional Park that has no air space restriction and a park ranger tries to give me the you can't fly here. When I asked why, I get the typical animal conversation. What are we going to disturb or damage 50-100 feet in the air.
I think DJI needs to use some of its profits and fight these rules. Even if we have to get permission first is ok. But just a blanket no fly zone is not right.

 

[Asgard]

We need to engage with other users of Public space, not take the default stance of playing the Victim.

The Alcatraz restriction for instance is totally understandable, there are known issues with small aircraft and drones dropping drugs and even escapes from Gaols using Helicopters.

 

[Tymaxboy]

We need to engage with other users of Public space, not take the default stance of playing the Victim.

The Alcatraz restriction for instance is totally understandable, there are known issues with small aircraft and drones dropping drugs and even escapes from Gaols using Helicopters.

Dropping drugs on to an empty prison that they do historic tours in?? I'm not sure you have a clue.
No victim here. I just want to capture some of the beautiful and historic sights that are located in some of the parks.

 

[Tymaxboy]

The airspace over Alcatraz is closed not for being a closed former prison. It is closed because being that it is a closed prison that has been deemed a national or state park...

 

[ac0j]

This is a cloudy topic. From the perspective of a typical park visitor, I wouldnt want to have drones buzzing around in the air when I am there. As a drone owner, Is there a picture of anything interesting at Alcatraz, or any other state park that hasnt already been taken many times already and made public?
If you need a picture of your visit to a national park, there is nothing that says you have to take it yourself or with your drone. Copy a nice photo off the internet, or buy a $1 souvenir postcard to put in your collection of photos.

 

[sar104]

I've been traveling around with work the last few months and I'm am so tired of this no fly zone over state and national parks.
I understand their foolish reason for it but it is just that, a foolish reason.
I was told by a attorney who focuses on sUAS laws that these rules were passed because no one fought against them.
Recently, I was in San Francisco. What wild life are they concerned about on Alcatraz that it has a no fly zone over it? Most of the Western shore line is blocked as well. Then I go to a Regional Park that has no air space restriction and a park ranger tries to give me the you can't fly here. When I asked why, I get the typical animal conversation. What are we going to disturb or damage 50-100 feet in the air.
I think DJI needs to use some of its profits and fight these rules. Even if we have to get permission first is ok. But just a blanket no fly zone is not right.

You have misunderstood the law. "No fly zones" don't exist over State or National Parks, with a few notable local exceptions that were put in place by the FAA in collaboration with DOI for security reasons, such as over the Statue of Liberty. What the NPS and some State Parks have done is ban operation of a drone (takeoff and landing) from their land. It's still perfectly legal to fly over them.

 

[Tymaxboy]

This is a cloudy topic. From the perspective of a typical park visitor, I wouldnt want to have drones buzzing around in the air when I am there. As a drone owner, Is there a picture of anything interesting at Alcatraz, or any other state park that hasnt already been taken many times already and made public?
If you need a picture of your visit to a national park, there is nothing that says you have to take it yourself or with your drone. Copy a nice photo off the internet, or buy a $1 souvenir postcard to put in your collection of photos.

Really!! Is that how you tap in to your creativity? But buying someone else's picture. You are right, there is nothing that says I have to take the picture other than my desire to try and create a beautiful pictures of some of our history. I pray that you don't have or raise kids with the same mentality on their creativeness.
I'm sorry but I thought this was a forum of drone users. Question, does your drone have a camera on it? If so, why? Why do you fly your drone? Just to look at your neighbors

 

[tcope]

Not that this topic has been beat to death in many prior threads and not that posting here is going to change a single thing but....

Drones are not allowed to be operated in NP for _several_ reasons... harassing wildlife is only one of those reasons. You ask what harassment will take place at 50 or 100 feet? You may not know this but... drones can (and are) flown lower than that. They _only_ way your argument works if they cannot. So obviously your point is.... pointless. It is not like anyone would ever use a drone to harass wildlife, right? When I search on Youtube, this is the 4th entry:

Feel free to jump to the 2:00 mark. From that point on, the person _continues_ to get closer and closer and does not leave the deer alone. Now, I'm not going to waste my time linking to the hundreds of other videos where a drone gets too close to wildlife. The NPS has _1st hand knowledge_ that this was going on. Keep in mind... it is 100% illegal every place in the US... but people _still_ do it. The repercussions are that it seperates young animals from their mothers and those animals cannot fend for themselves. But hey, that person could not do without a drone shot of animals. After all, it is their right to have it.

The other reason why drones are banned from NPS is because of the damage they do. Feel free to Google Yellowstone and drone. I'll simply allow you to educate yourself. Keep in mind... this all happen when there _was_ a ban. Think what would happen if everyone could fly a drone the same way.

Last reason is that the NPS is charged with preserving the park as it is for _everyone_ to _enjoy_. I can think of nothing better than enjoying a great view.... with 20 drones buzzing around. But hey, you need that drone shot. Screw everyone else. It is not like you can fly in millions of other places.

As I mentioned above, this topic has been beat to death. If you don't like the NPS ruling, feel free to contact the appropriate people to have the rule change. As your lawyer friend should have mentioned, in addition to rules being passed because no one objected... rules won't also change if there is no objection.

 

[Mr. Salty]

I'm sorry but I thought this was a forum of drone users.

It is, which is why there are hundreds of existing posts on this well- worn topic. The consensus: There will never be agreement on this topic.

And your lawyer friend is wrong. These rules weren't passed be use no one fought the. They were passed because visitors to crowded national parks don't want dozens of drones flying around creating disturbances and crashing.

 

[Mr. Salty]

Has anybody ever flown in a national park?
Has anybody ever flown in a national park?

 

[Asgard]

Apologies Tymah, I foolishly assumed Alcatraz was still operational.
Though I agree some restrictions are plain daft, I still think we need to be a bit more understanding of others who share the space on this planet (including birds and animals)
Buying a Drone does not and imo should not come with a fee pass to fly anywhere we think is suitable

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Just a side note: There are occasions that you can fly in a NP, but only after permission is requested and granted "for a valid reason". Just to shoot some personal video or photo is not a valid reason. Documentaries, Mapping, wildlife inventory, etc. Permission to fly in a NP, although rare, is given under the right circumstances. If you insist on flying over a NP, you must take off from outside the park, and maintain VLOS.

 

[Tymaxboy]

You have misunderstood the law. "No fly zones" don't exist over State or National Parks, with a few notable local exceptions that were put in place by the FAA in collaboration with DOI for security reasons, such as over the Statue of Liberty. What the NPS and some State Parks have done is ban operation of a drone (takeoff and landing) from their land. It's still perfectly legal to fly over them.

Yes, there are no "No Fly Zones" over state and national parks. What there is are restriction that says you can't fly over them. That is unless something has changed. If I look on the AirMap App most of the Western shoreline around San Fran is lit up red with restrictions.

I understand they don't want a bunch of knuckleheads with $50 drones crashing all over the place. But I took the extra step to get my part 107 so I can be more responsible. I think there should be a process established that you can get clearance.

 

[Tymaxboy]

Apologies Tymah, I foolishly assumed Alcatraz was still operational.
Though I agree some restrictions are plain daft, I still think we need to be a bit more understanding of others who share the space on this planet (including birds and animals)
Buying a Drone does not and imo should not come with a fee pass to fly anywhere we think is suitable

I'm there to take pictures and videos. I'll go in the morning for sunrise or for sunset. I get it but if I'm in the middle of no where and not a soul is around me. Who am I going to disturb. I'm a lover of nature and want to capture not disturb it's beauty.

 

[sar104]

Yes, there are no "No Fly Zones" over state and national parks. What there is are restriction that says you can't fly over them. That is unless something has changed. If I look on the AirMap App most of the Western shoreline around San Fran is lit up red with restrictions.

I understand they don't want a bunch of knuckleheads with $50 drones crashing all over the place. But I took the extra step to get my part 107 so I can be more responsible. I think there should be a process established that you can get clearance.

If you have a Part 107 then you really need to learn about airspace. Those are not "No Fly Zones", even in Airmap - they are advisories based on the park rules that prohibit takeoff and landing:



The DJI GEO map doesn't even mention them as they are not airspace restrictions



Nor does the FAA UAS airspace restrictions database:

 

[Tymaxboy]

Not that this topic has been beat to death in many prior threads and not that posting here is going to change a single thing but....

Drones are not allowed to be operated in NP for _several_ reasons... harassing wildlife is only one of those reasons. You ask what harassment will take place at 50 or 100 feet? You may not know this but... drones can (and are) flown lower than that. They _only_ way your argument works if they cannot. So obviously your point is.... pointless. It is not like anyone would ever use a drone to harass wildlife, right? When I search on Youtube, this is the 4th entry:

Feel free to jump to the 2:00 mark. From that point on, the person _continues_ to get closer and closer and does not leave the deer alone. Now, I'm not going to waste my time linking to the hundreds of other videos where a drone gets too close to wildlife. The NPS has _1st hand knowledge_ that this was going on. Keep in mind... it is 100% illegal every place in the US... but people _still_ do it. The repercussions are that it seperates young animals from their mothers and those animals cannot fend for themselves. But hey, that person could not do without a drone shot of animals. After all, it is their right to have it.

The other reason why drones are banned from NPS is because of the damage they do. Feel free to Google Yellowstone and drone. I'll simply allow you to educate yourself. Keep in mind... this all happen when there _was_ a ban. Think what would happen if everyone could fly a drone the same way.

Last reason is that the NPS is charged with preserving the park as it is for _everyone_ to _enjoy_. I can think of nothing better than enjoying a great view.... with 20 drones buzzing around. But hey, you need that drone shot. Screw everyone else. It is not like you can fly in millions of other places.

As I mentioned above, this topic has been beat to death. If you don't like the NPS ruling, feel free to contact the appropriate people to have the rule change. As your lawyer friend should have mentioned, in addition to rules being passed because no one objected... rules won't also change if there is no objection.

First, I'm new in here and was very frustrated after driving in traffic to get to a park where there were no flight restrictions on Air Map. Now granted with everything in life we have those morons who take things too far and act irresponsibly. I could argue, you don't know how that drone was, how far did they zoom in. I could argue that every picture/video on national geographic could have came at the price of disturbing that animals day. But neither were me and I can't/won't fight for people I don't know or things I didn't do.

I get it, but a blanket "no" to everyone is not right. There should be a process to gain permission. As a commercial pilot, a responsible adult, a parent and a firefighter I would not be irresponsibly with my drone. I want to to capture nature in it's natural environment. Not disturb it

 

[Tymaxboy]

If you have a Part 107 then you really need to learn about airspace. Those are not "No Fly Zones", even in Airmap - they are advisories based on the park rules that prohibit takeoff and landing:

View attachment 54255

The DJI GEO map doesn't even mention them as they are not airspace restrictions

View attachment 54256

Nor does the FAA UAS airspace restrictions database:

View attachment 54257

I also know that I have to keep the drone in line of sight and don't think I could do that from the distance I would have to be to get the shoreline pictures I wanted.

 

[tcope]

I get it, but a blanket "no" to everyone is not right. There should be a process to gain permission. As a commercial pilot, a responsible adult, a parent and a firefighter I would not be irresponsibly with my drone. I want to to capture nature in it's natural environment. Not disturb it

For National Parks... there is a process. I'm betting the same would be true of most other places. Not saying that it is not a _very_ difficult process though.

I have flown in an area managed by the National Park service... though, it was by mistake. I also flew within 5 miles of an airport without calling them... at the same time. So I'm not casting blame.

Just for the record, feel free to Google Hite Airport to see where this took place.

 

[ac0j]

I think it is childish to NOT consider National parks an NFZ. also, having a part 107 doesnt teach you ANYTHING that should make you feel better about flying at a NP.
The parks CANNOT control airspace, or what is done outside of their margins. It would be different if they could.
But you would have to be a complete idiot to not understand the parks wishes when it comes to drones. And finding workarounds doesnt make you look smarter, or better at all.

 

[Mr. Salty]

What there is are restriction that says you can't fly over them.

No, there are restrictions saying you can't land or take off from their property.

I get it but if I'm in the middle of no where and not a soul is around me. Who am I going to disturb.

In reality, in something the size of a national park, you don't really know whether there is someone around you might be disturbing. Just because you haven't noticed them doesn't mean they aren't there.

As a commercial pilot, a responsible adult, a parent and a firefighter I would not be irresponsibly with my drone.

You probably are responsible, but then again, everyone who has crashed their drone probably thought they were responsible, too.

You understand the rules have to be made for everybody. They can't just say "Flying drones in national parks is strictly off-limits for morons but 'responsible' pilots are free to fly."