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24p or 30p?

Black Diesel

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I know the benchmark is 24p for cinema, but what Is better for buttery smooth footage with no jitter on the Mini 3 pro? Some of the reputable drone YouTubers like to shoot in 30p. What do you shoot and why for the buttery smooth cinematic look?

Some will say it comes down to editing but I don’t know how to edit well yet so I want to bank the best possible footage I can so I can edit it later when I’m more advanced.
 
@Black Diesel ,personally for me i have always shot video ,with all my drones at 1080p at 30fps
i dont do any post editing ,and have found that 1080p at 30 fps gives me the best smooth playback on my computer ,i am not an expert in this subject ,and can only pass on my thoughts ,I also do not post videos on any of the web sites
 
@Black Diesel ,personally for me i have always shot video ,with all my drones at 1080p at 30fps
i dont do any post editing ,and have found that 1080p at 30 fps gives me the best smooth playback on my computer ,i am not an expert in this subject ,and can only pass on my thoughts ,I also do not post videos on any of the web sites
Nice. I’m a still still photographer and have that side of photography down but I’m moving into video for a change so I’m looking for the best possible quality to shoot in. Software and computers will only make editing easier in the long run so I want a file I can revisit in the future. Right now I can go back 20 years and re-edit my RAW files with the latest software and it’s amazing what the latest soft can do With those old RAW files. So for video I will be shooting 4k24 or 4k30 but I would like to settle on one to keep it consistent
 
In my experience so far, not just with drones but with video in general, getting that smooth buttery look comes down to getting your settings right so that you achieve the motion blur your eye is expecting to see. So shutter speed = 2x frame rate is the accepted rule of thumb. 1/50 shutter speed for 24 fps or 1/60 for 30 fps. On the Mini 3 Pro with it’s f1.7 aperture, this is going to require ND filters during the daytime to be able to get those longer shutter speeds without overexposing your image. And obviously you’ll have to put it in PRO mode.

Beyond that, 24 fps is the industry standard for cinema. But you can probably compare 24 and 30 and see which you prefer if you don’t have any client requirements. It seems to be pretty subjective which is best if you are publishing to, say, Youtube.
 
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30fps video is a bit smoother than 24fps and becoming more of a standard now that film has moved into the digital world and is viewed more in living rooms than on big screens.

Its also good practice to learn how to apply the 180 degree rule. By setting the shutter speed to 1/60th a second for 30fps, just the right amount of motion blur is applied. This avoids the soap opera effect where everything is fully in focus at all times and judder that occurs otherwise. As Hands Down mentioned ND filter will be a must on the Mini 3 Pro to slow the shutter down and expose correctly, because you can't adjust the aperture like on Mavic 2 Pro or Mavic 3.
 
30fps video is a bit smoother than 24fps and becoming more of a standard now that film has moved into the digital world and is viewed more in living rooms than on big screens.

Its also good practice to learn how to apply the 180 degree rule. By setting the shutter speed to 1/60th a second for 30fps, just the right amount of motion blur is applied. This avoids the soap opera effect where everything is fully in focus at all times and judder that occurs otherwise. As Hands Down mentioned ND filter will be a must on the Mini 3 Pro to slow the shutter down and expose correctly, because you can't adjust the aperture like on Mavic 2 Pro or Mavic 3.
I forgot to mention I follow the 180 degree rule and I have ND filters. I will also be shooting in D-Cinelike. I plan on making films/content to watch on large 4k televisions at home, which will eventually be 6k and 8k. I can see a huge difference in image quality in my RAW files going from a 4k display to a 5K iMac to a 6K XDR display. Fast forward 5-10 years and everything might be 6-8K, so this is why I'm shooting with maximum quality to future proof my content as much as I can.

I guess a question I could ask for the advanced video editors is could you take 4k30 and put it in a 4k24 timeline? When you do this how does it affect the content? Does it create jitter or negatively affect the final output in any way?
 
Odd value frame rate conversions like 24 fps to 30 fps will always result in judder because they involve duplicating some frames and not others.


Instead, conversion from 30 to 60 fps requires simply doubling or halving the individual frames.

There is nothing magic about 24 fps. This standard was adopted by the movie world because it was (nearly) the minimum fps that (nearly) eliminated screen flicker. Bean counters made this compromise to save money on film stock.

If your drone can shoot 4K, unless there are other compromises made by the drone to allow 4K (like eliminating object avoidance, or, possibly, recording 10 bit data) there is no good reason not to. Smaller files are no longer an advantage since storage is so cheap. A 128GB microSD card is now sub twenty dollars. (astounding)

Shooting 4K future-proofs your footage and, probably more importantly, allows plenty of room for post production effects like zooming and stabilization without loss.

I shoot 4K 60fps if I can, for all the above reasons. I'll bail on 60 fps only if the sensor is starved for light. Every frame gets twice the exposure at 30 fps.
 
Odd value frame rate conversions like 24 fps to 30 fps will always result in judder because they involve duplicating some frames and not others.


Instead, conversion from 30 to 60 fps requires simply doubling or halving the individual frames.

There is nothing magic about 24 fps. This standard was adopted by the movie world because it was (nearly) the minimum fps that (nearly) eliminated screen flicker. Bean counters made this compromise to save money on film stock.

If your drone can shoot 4K, unless there are other compromises made by the drone to allow 4K (like eliminating object avoidance, or, possibly, recording 10 bit data) there is no good reason not to. Smaller files are no longer an advantage since storage is so cheap. A 128GB microSD card is now sub twenty dollars. (astounding)

Shooting 4K future-proofs your footage and, probably more importantly, allows plenty of room for post production effects like zooming and stabilization without loss.

I shoot 4K 60fps if I can, for all the above reasons. I'll bail on 60 fps only if the sensor is starved for light. Every frame gets twice the exposure at 30 fps.
60 FPS has a tradeoff in addition to file size on the M3P, though. The HQ mode isn’t available at that frame rate. Even though the way it creates the HDR video image is a bit different than the way it’s done with stills, I personally think it makes a noticable impact on the dynamic range of the video.

From my comparisons so far, I think I’d rather have the HQ mode than a higher frame rate in most situations. Nice to have choices, though.
 
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30fps video is a bit smoother than 24fps and becoming more of a standard now that film has moved into the digital world and is viewed more in living rooms than on big screens.
There is virtualy no theatrical content is shot at 30p, even though they could. A number of years ago there were some experimental theatrical releases at 48p in some selected theaters. They were not well accepted by audiences, who have become conditioned to narrative content with the 24p characteristics. 30p and 60p are associated with live TV.

Real 24p causes problems in video transfer, which has several native frame rates that are not even multiples, but everything must end up at either 25, 30 or 60fps for video. 24fps doesn't convert to 30fps without a major cadence bump, and what device does that and how sophisticated it is creates a bit of a wild situation, from very good to not so much. High end transfers are, of course, done right.

Then there's actual 24p video. When you output 24p video directly to a display, there's still very possibly a frame rate conversion in the display. There is a lot of video processing power in today's displays, even the low cost ones. You've probably noticed the horribly "motion smoothing" interpolation processing that's on by default in some Tvs. It's just awful, and should always be turned off. But if you're shooting for anyone but yourself, you don't have that control. That's where 24p is just a disadvantage. If you provide at least 30p, the motion smoothing won't do so much damage.

Even if the display can do 24p natively there's a new problem. In 24fps film, which is what 24p tries to emulate, projection actually shows each frame twice with equal exposure and blackout times. What you see has a 48Hz flicker on a 24fps image. Digital Cinema projectors emulate that shutter. Consumer video devices rarely duplicate that, so attempts to shoot video at 24p generally falls short, often very short, of the film emulation that is desired. But you can always shoot your own tests. That's what I do with every camera, even the ones I rent for jobs. Some just don't do 24p well at all, actually very few do it well. Then there's the display of course.

Its also good practice to learn how to apply the 180 degree rule. By setting the shutter speed to 1/60th a second for 30fps, just the right amount of motion blur is applied. This avoids the soap opera effect where everything is fully in focus at all times and judder that occurs otherwise. As Hands Down mentioned ND filter will be a must on the Mini 3 Pro to slow the shutter down and expose correctly, because you can't adjust the aperture like on Mavic 2 Pro or Mavic 3.
Well, close. The "soap opera" effect is not primarily a shutter speed issue, but a frame rate issue. Broadcast TV in the USA is 30p, even in the SD analog days, though it was 60 fields interlaced (60i). The result was and is ultra fluid motion. Remember, the "p" stands for "progressive" scanning, where a sensor is scanned from the top down, making the effective shutter interval approximately 1/60, though in many early camera systems there was a time difference from the top to the bottom. Many digital imaging systems now simulate a mechanical shutter, even if the sensor is read progressively, and that mechanical shutter simulation can usually be turned on and off in a menu, though haven't seen that option on a drone camera so far.

What a longer shutter interval does is allow a certain amount of motion blur, which makes moving elements appear to move more fluidly. That's true at any frame rate, but more critical at the lower rates like 24 or 30. A short duration shutter makes motion look choppy, and moving elements very sharp. This was used extensively as an effect in Gladiator during fight scenes where Ridly wanted to add a sense of speed and confusion. It wasn't used in the entire film, just fight scenes. It looked like a 1/500 shutter or faster at 24p. The high shutter speed effect became something of a visual motif for a few years showing up in other films and TV commercials until everyone finally burned out on it. Where it doesn't work for us shooting drone video is, we can have a lot of elements moving quickly, and motion blur helps make those elements appear smooth. 180 degree shutter to the rescue. And yes, you do need ND filters to slow the shutter down.

There are those that will argue that higher frame rates are what's needed for more realism, and I don't disagree up to a point. That point is probably 60p with a 180 degree shutter timing. Higher rates have been tried of course, but the advantage is tiny. The obvious trade off is file size vs time. 60p files get huge, it makes editing on a modest computer clumsy and slow. Black Magic Design makes a couple of speed test apps that let you test your system, and will report what formats and frame rates it can handle in the real world. Mac only, sorry.

As to putting multiple formats and frame rates in an editor, it depends on the software, but the major players will all create compatible proxy files when you do that, so outside of the difference in frame rate being visible, you can cut and will, and everything plays at the right speed. Be aware that it will take at least some time for the software to render the new proxy files, so if you're pressed for time in post, stay in the same frame rate and codec, and set your project parameters to match so nothing has to get rendered. And rendering may occur after certain editing operations too.

Not that it matters, but I shoot mostly 4K/30, but if my post time is short and 4K isn't mandatory, I still shoot in 1080p/30 occasionally. My cameras are all set to inherently simulate mechanical shutters at 180 degrees where possible. The drones are the exceptions, just a pain to mess with ND filters, but the results are worth it.
 
@Black Diesel ,personally for me i have always shot video ,with all my drones at 1080p at 30fps
i dont do any post editing ,and have found that 1080p at 30 fps gives me the best smooth playback on my computer ,i am not an expert in this subject ,and can only pass on my thoughts ,I also do not post videos on any of the web sites
Yeah ya do I’ve seen a few here 😉
 
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The answer really depends on your target display device and it’s capabilities. Most modern UHD and larger TVs in the US natively deal with 60P and some support 120P. Feeding them with 60P footage will give the smoothest high image quality image.

For computer display, it is a harder question, and depends on the PC hardware’s capabilities. For modern powerful PCs 60P will be best. For less powerful machines the CODEC used to deliver the video, and the bit rate used, will often create video footage that doesn’t play smoothly.

In the case of these underpowered computers, you can often get good results by shooting 60P original, and using it on a 30P timeline thereby getting good display performance on an existing PC, while preserving the higher quality original for the future.

A further note is all of the above is for regions of the world that use the NTSC video standards for TV. Other standards in the world use 50P and 25P, so the user needs to consider that if addressing that marked.
 
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The answer really depends on your target display device and it’s capabilities. Most modern UHD and larger TVs in the US natively deal with 60P and some support 120P. Feeding them with 60P footage will give the smoothest high image quality image.

For computer display, it is a harder question, and depends on the PC hardware’s capabilities. For modern powerful PCs 60P will be best. For less powerful machines the CODEC used to deliver the video, and the bit rate used, will often create video footage that doesn’t play smoothly.

In the case of these underpowered computers, you can often get good results by shooting 60P original, and using it on a 30P timeline thereby getting good display performance on an existing PC, while preserving the higher quality original for the future.

A further note is all of the above is for regions of the world that use the NTSC video standards for TV. Other standards in the world use 50P and 25P, so the user needs to consider that if addressing that marked.
What’s “best” is more of an aesthetic choice than one related to the specific display though. Today’s displays can accept video up to 60p, but not always “natively”. Every display will either the video directly or resample it to match it’s internal scan rates. The problem is you won’t know which. And since the bulk of video in the NTSC universe is 30p or 24p. But regardless, frame rates have an aesthetic quality that viewers accept as a subliminal coupling to the purpose and creation of the material.

In the grand scheme, “content is king”, and viewer engagement is mostly about what the video is, much less about how it looks.

In post, putting 60p video on a 30p timeline will always result in new proxy clips that are resampled to match the timeline settings. That’s not a good thing for underpowered computers, not just because the proxies take time and storage space, but that rendering process must continue throughout the editing process to a degree since any modifications, require re-rendering. And while that’s always true, if you’re working with clips to match the timeline, the total rendering time is less.

Higher frame rates, higher resolution, higher bit rates, and even some codecs demand more processing in a computer or device. That’s where the hardware and software come in. For example H.265 requires more processing to decode, some computers and video cards are not as up to the task as others. Anyone who has edited on older hardware would know that the difference between working in 1080p and 4K can was a deal-breaker.

It’s worth noting that a lot of the “power” in computers, when it comes to video, is in the graphics card. The basic idea is, a graphics card can handle a lot of the video processing, the good ones all of it, but if the graphics card can’t do it, the processing gets off-loaded to the CPU which can usually do it, but much more slowly. High performance “gaming” graphics cards are more important to video than the CPU.
 
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Personally, I feel 24p is about all most drone pilots might need.
If you fly fast, low to subject, shoot high speed sports like sailboarding / motor racing etc, or do slomo a bit in editing, then shoot 30p or 60p, or even higher if you like.
 
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I know the benchmark is 24p for cinema, but what Is better for buttery smooth footage with no jitter on the Mini 3 pro?
If you follow the 180° rule AND the panning rule (1 frame every 7 seconds, if memory serves), footage SHOULD be smooth @ 24 FPS.



Some of the reputable drone YouTubers like to shoot in 30p. What do you shoot and why for the buttery smooth cinematic look?
A famous DP once told me that a general rule of thumb is 24 FPS for fiction, 30 FPS for non-fiction. So for "cinema" we shoot 24 FPS always without exception. For documentaries and/or "blogs" we generally shoot 30 FPS. Again, rule of thumb. It will vary from production to production. When I shoot construction progress videos, I shoot 30 FPS and 180° rule be (Mod Removed Language) We're shooting for forensics. So "motion blur" is not desirable.



Some will say it comes down to editing but I don’t know how to edit well yet so I want to bank the best possible footage I can so I can edit it later when I’m more advanced.
There are so many analogies for this, I don't even know where to start. Gasoline is a good analogy. High octane gasoline isn't "better." In the simplest terms, the octane you SHOULD use depends on the need of the vehicle. If you're putting high-octane in a Dodge Neon, you're wasting your money. If you're putting low octane in a 1969 GTO Judge (which is not equipped with a knock sensor), you may hole a piston. Shooting video is exactly the same. There is no "better." Your camera settings depend completely on environment and goals.

D
 
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I know for a fact those who respond are pros or almost pros. But me, just casual and not spending too much time with perfection. I've been flying for 4-5 years and the slow 24-30 fps would give you good video but to speed up or slow down there is not much flexibility. Now that I have the Mavic 3, the 60 fps is awesome. good video and beautiful slow mo. Depends on what you are wanting to accomplish.
 
I know for a fact those who respond are pros or almost pros. But me, just casual and not spending too much time with perfection. I've been flying for 4-5 years and the slow 24-30 fps would give you good video but to speed up or slow down there is not much flexibility. Now that I have the Mavic 3, the 60 fps is awesome. good video and beautiful slow mo. Depends on what you are wanting to accomplish.
If you are constantly shooting in 60fps wouldn't you lose out on some motion blur with the faster shutter speed of 1/120th compared to 1/50th or 1/60th?
 
If you are constantly shooting in 60fps wouldn't you lose out on some motion blur with the faster shutter speed of 1/120th compared to 1/50th or 1/60th?
If he stays in 60fps, and the shutter speed is 1/120, there would be less motion blur, but also less need from a motion smoothness standpoint. Motion blur helps lower frame rates look smoother when content is moving rapidly because it "bridges" the gap between frame samples. With higher frame rates the gap is smaller, so there is less need to bridge it with blur. 60fps is about the limit also, above that frame rate motion blur no longer matters at all.

Where this will become a problem is if the 60p material is rendered into a 24p or 30p project, and how that rendering handles the rate conversion. 60p > 30p could be as simple as skipping every other frame (though not likely done that way), but converting to 24p is more complex requiring at least some form of interpolation. That makes it a bit tricky to predict what would happen, but then, nobody should be shooting in 60 and cutting in 24 other than for a special shot or two.
 
If he stays in 60fps, and the shutter speed is 1/120, there would be less motion blur, but also less need from a motion smoothness standpoint. Motion blur helps lower frame rates look smoother when content is moving rapidly because it "bridges" the gap between frame samples. With higher frame rates the gap is smaller, so there is less need to bridge it with blur. 60fps is about the limit also, above that frame rate motion blur no longer matters at all.

Where this will become a problem is if the 60p material is rendered into a 24p or 30p project, and how that rendering handles the rate conversion. 60p > 30p could be as simple as skipping every other frame (though not likely done that way), but converting to 24p is more complex requiring at least some form of interpolation. That makes it a bit tricky to predict what would happen, but then, nobody should be shooting in 60 and cutting in 24 other than for a special shot or two.
Okay, then what if any are the sacrifices of shooting 60fps? Less dynamic range or IQ? I'm aware of the bigger file size, but if you are cutting down to 30fps it seems there is a benefit to shoot 60fps because you have the option to slow it down a bit.
 
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