A.P.: What you need to know about the DJI drone ban in the U.S.

[mavic3usa]

I have a Sennheiser wireless mic system that the fcc in its infinite wisdom decided to sell its the operational bands to a cell phone company. It’s now not only illegal to operate my wireless mic, and it’s illegal for me to sell the equipment to anyone else. Further, if the fcc discovers you this using equipment on this bandwidth, you can and will be fined heavily and your equipment will be confiscated.

What’s different about my Sennheiser wireless mic system is that it does not operate using a phone app. There is no app that can be revoked or blocked.

is this it? https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-10-16A1.pdf

 

[moldorf]

When they say "grounded", that doesn't mean existing drones will suddenly drop out of the sky or be physically disabled, preventing them from taking off.

when was the last time you flew your drone without using the DJI Fly app?

I know that DJI has built code into the Fly app that slaps extreme restrictions on height and distance if you haven't logged in for 30 days. That's already integral in the app.

If the FCC and the government compel DJI to ground all their drones in the USA it would be thru a software patch to the Fly app(s). Yeah, you can keep your app from phoning home to DJI but 30 days from your last log-on, your drone would be limited 90 feet in height and 150 feet in distance. That may not be technically grounded but it is practically grounded

sure, there may be some hacks that will come out. but here's the reality for the vast majority of DJI owners: even though we recognize the illogical and irrational nature of this legislation, none of us will be willing to intentionally and deliberately violate the intent and the letter of a law that deals with national security

 

[franklinskite]

is this it? https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-10-16A1.pdf

Read about it here:

Sale of 600 MHz band Wireless Microphones.

The manufacture, import, sale, lease, offer for sale or lease, or shipment of wireless microphones or similar devices intended for use in the United States that operate on the 600 MHz service band frequencies (617-652 MHz and 663-698 MHz) is now prohibited. See FCC 15-100, FCC 15-99, FCC 17-95, DA 17-709.

Transition out of the 700 MHz Band​

In 2010, the FCC prohibited the operation of wireless microphones and similar devices (e.g., wireless intercoms, wireless in-ear monitors, wireless audio instrument links, and wireless cueing equipment) in the 700 MHz Band (i.e., 698 - 806 MHz). This 700 MHz band formerly had been allocated for TV broadcast services and has been repurposed for wireless broadband and public safety services. As a result, the use, manufacture, import, sale, lease, offer for sale or lease, or shipment of wireless microphones that are used in the 700 MHz Band was banned by the FCC. See FCC 10-16.

Wireless Microphones

Wireless microphones are used to transmit sound to an amplifier or recording device without need of a physical cable. Their use provides many important functions that serve the public interest. For instance, they play an essential role in enabling broadcasters and other video programming...

www.fcc.gov

 

[franklinskite]

is this it? https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-10-16A1.pdf

There was also a short-lived trade-in program. Sennheiser I think offered a trade-in (or discount) for new bandwidth mics:

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/EV%20Final%20FCC%20600MHz%20Announcement_v3_For_WEB.pdf

 

[Divine_Madcat]

when was the last time you flew your drone without using the DJI Fly app?

I know that DJI has built code into the Fly app that slaps extreme restrictions on height and distance if you haven't logged in for 30 days. That's already integral in the app.

If the FCC and the government compel DJI to ground all their drones in the USA it would be thru a software patch to the Fly app(s). Yeah, you can keep your app from phoning home to DJI but 30 days from your last log-on, your drone would be limited 90 feet in height and 150 feet in distance. That may not be technically grounded but it is practically grounded

sure, there may be some hacks that will come out. but here's the reality for the vast majority of DJI owners: even though we recognize the illogical and irrational nature of this legislation, none of us will be willing to intentionally and deliberately violate the intent and the letter of a law that deals with national security

(Mind you, the phone home login requirement is complete crap) - Didn't that 30 day window get extended to 90 days in a more recent Fly app update?

 

[moldorf]

(Mind you, the phone home login requirement is complete crap) - Didn't that 30 day window get extended to 90 days in a more recent Fly app update?

yeah, it is crap

I didn't know about a possible extension from 30 to 90 days. Still, if it did happen, you end up with a brick after 3 months

 

[Divine_Madcat]

yeah, it is crap

I didn't know about a possible extension from 30 to 90 days. Still, if it did happen, you end up with a brick after 3 months

Looks like it happened in 1.12.4:

When Will DJI Fix The Log Out Issue With The Mini 3 Pro RC Cont?

Hello - I've been online all afternoon trying to figure out why the RC Pro controller is contantly logging people off INSIDE of 3 months. I was just using my drone (Mini 3 Pro) 4 weeks ago and it has already logged me off again. There are DOZENS of accounts online of photographers who are on...

forum.dji.com

 

[franklinskite]

Looks like it happened in 1.12.4:

When Will DJI Fix The Log Out Issue With The Mini 3 Pro RC Cont?

Hello - I've been online all afternoon trying to figure out why the RC Pro controller is contantly logging people off INSIDE of 3 months. I was just using my drone (Mini 3 Pro) 4 weeks ago and it has already logged me off again. There are DOZENS of accounts online of photographers who are on...

forum.dji.com

Thanks.

 

[mavic3usa]

when was the last time you flew your drone without using the DJI Fly app?

I know that DJI has built code into the Fly app that slaps extreme restrictions on height and distance if you haven't logged in for 30 days. That's already integral in the app.

If the FCC and the government compel DJI to ground all their drones in the USA it would be thru a software patch to the Fly app(s). Yeah, you can keep your app from phoning home to DJI but 30 days from your last log-on, your drone would be limited 90 feet in height and 150 feet in distance. That may not be technically grounded but it is practically grounded

sure, there may be some hacks that will come out. but here's the reality for the vast majority of DJI owners: even though we recognize the illogical and irrational nature of this legislation, none of us will be willing to intentionally and deliberately violate the intent and the letter of a law that deals with national security

There are plenty of drone flyers, many of them right here in this forum, who have and will openly admit to denying any ban or disobey any order from the FAA or breaking any law they don't agree with. Don't get it twisted.

As usual, people obey the laws they feel like obeying and disobey the ones that don't apply those them; whether we are talking about drones or anything else. I will officially go on the record that I will not deny any FAA legislation that amounts to a defacto ban regardless how strong or weak it is and regardless how I feel about it.

 

[franklinskite]

There are plenty of drone flyers, many of them right here in this forum, who have and will openly admit to denying any ban or disobey any order from the FAA or breaking any law they don't agree with. Don't get it twisted.

As usual, people obey the laws they feel like obeying and disobey the ones that don't apply those them; whether we are talking about drones or anything else. I will officially go on the record that I will not deny any FAA legislation that amounts to a defacto ban regardless how strong or weak it is and regardless how I feel about it.

What I and posters like moldorf have been trying to explain is that with today's phone and app culture we will not be left with a choice about whether we want to comply. The app can be shut down. The drone can be grounded. Period. End of sentence. We are too reliant on our phones and apps. I feel a growing need to get away from apps and high-tech companies. My kite on a string was very hard for my congressman to ground.

 

[mavic3usa]

What I an posters like moldorf have been trying to explain is that with today's phone and app culture we will not be left with a choice about whether we want to comply. The app can be shut down. The drone can be grounded. Period. End of sentence. We are too reliant on our phones and apps. I feel a growing need to get away from apps and high-tech companies. My kite on a string was very hard for my congressman to ground.

I'm kinda in the middle on this one. While I agree "someone" is perfectly capable of physically blocking the drone from taking off should the orders are given, I just havent yet arrived at the conclusion that my government has reached such an all-time low as to immediately deprive millions of Americans of their equipment without any reasonable "due process" so to speak. I know there have been cases in the past (don't ask) where this has been done before but the equipment was mostly considered controversial, the victims were considered "hostile" and ultimately the equipment was labeled as contraband because it apparently had no redeeming value. A Mavic 3 Pro is a fine piece of equipment and even though some consider it a spy-tool for China, no one thinks it a useless piece of equipment which nobody should own for any reason. However, I don't put anything past this government; we could ultimately be looking at a case for confiscation depending on the circumstances.

 

[anotherlab]

Are there actual cases of heavy fines and confiscation?

The mic was banned because it used frequencies currently allocated to cell phones.

I saw this posted on Reddit...

Correct, but each cell phone tower is constantly monitoring the "health" of the spectrum that they use as part of their normal operation, and if they receive an unexpected signal within their operating band, they will set an alarm in real time.

That will trigger a technician to be dispatched to locate and eliminate the interference, using various tools including portable spectrum analyzers and handheld directional antennas.

If that tech finds you using equipment on their frequencies you will be asked to stop. If you refuse, he will report that directly to the government and you'll be getting a visit in the very near future.

As others said, everyone will try first to get voluntary compliance, but the feds can issue fines and impound equipment if you aren't cooperating.
Source: currently work with a cell company doing (among other things) interference hunting.

If the current drones have their current FCC licenses revoked, they are not going to show up connecting to cell towers. But thanks to the current Remote ID requirements, people now have a way to report drones operating nearby.

 

[moldorf]

What I an posters like moldorf have been trying to explain is that with today's phone and app culture we will not be left with a choice about whether we want to comply. The app can be shut down. The drone can be grounded. Period. End of sentence. We are too reliant on our phones and apps. I feel a growing need to get away from apps and high-tech companies. My kite on a string was very hard for my congressman to ground.

exactly

this notion that some have been pushing that DJI or the government couldn't ground DJI drones and keep them from accessing FCC controlled frequencies doesn't withstand scrutiny.

yeah, there may be ways to navigate around the law (or may not), but those ways would be willful acts violating a law concerned with national security (or at least presented as dealing with national security, even though we recognize the fallacies motivating the law). Very few of us would be willing to step over that line

 

[mavic3usa]

exactly

this notion that some have been pushing that DJI or the government couldn't ground DJI drones and keep them from accessing FCC controlled frequencies doesn't withstand scrutiny.

yeah, there may be ways to navigate around the law (or may not), but those ways would be willful acts violating a law concerned with national security (or at least presented as dealing with national security, even though we recognize the fallacies motivating the law). Very few of us would be willing to step over that line

I made this post a few months ago: DJI Ban Questions

 

[AlanL]

There are some remarkably bad assumptions being made on how our drone communicate with our controllers in this thread. DJI is NOT using some esoteric bandwidths that were apparently not always in use like Sennheiser did a while back. DJI is using 2 frequency bands the FCC reserved for public use only many decades ago. These frequency bands are the same ones in use for WiFi network communications as well as Bluetooth. The FCC cannot auction off those frequency bands without disrupting almost all wireless communications and that would not even be negotiable.

When DJI applies to get a license for a new transceiver chip the FCC's primary concerns are whether DJI's new offering is in compliance with the frequency bands and transmission power limitations. There is no specific frequency within the public radio bands that DJI has been assigned so any effort to interfere with the communications between the drone and the controller will impact ALL WiFi communications going on in the vicinity of the radio wave jammer including Bluetooth. As long as DJI continues to use an already licensed transceiver the FCC isn't involved with the process. Cell towers are summarily irrelevant for anything other than internet connectivity for your controller. The drone itself has no cellular connectivity at all.

 

[franklinskite]

There are some remarkably bad assumptions being made on how our drone communicate with our controllers in this thread. DJI is NOT using some esoteric bandwidths that were apparently not always in use like Sennheiser did a while back. DJI is using 2 frequency bands the FCC reserved for public use only many decades ago. These frequency bands are the same ones in use for WiFi network communications as well as Bluetooth. The FCC cannot auction off those frequency bands without disrupting almost all wireless communications and that would not even be negotiable.

When DJI applies to get a license for a new transceiver chip the FCC's primary concerns are whether DJI's new offering is in compliance with the frequency bands and transmission power limitations. There is no specific frequency within the public radio bands that DJI has been assigned so any effort to interfere with the communications between the drone and the controller will impact ALL WiFi communications going on in the vicinity of the radio wave jammer including Bluetooth. As long as DJI continues to use an already licensed transceiver the FCC isn't involved with the process. Cell towers are summarily irrelevant for anything other than internet connectivity for your controller. The drone itself has no cellular connectivity at all.

We’re not talking about just the frequencies. We’re talking about the apps, and the app culture. Do you really imagine that Apple or DJI won’t or can’t be forced to pull an app? That they can’t be forced to do so? Happens all the time in the E.U. and China. It’s happening in the U.S. right now with TikTok. Then what?

 

[moldorf]

I made this post a few months ago: DJI Ban Questions

yeah...I'm not thinking it will go that far. From the article that franklinskite posted earlier today, it sounds like if this ban does pass (seems likely at this point), it will do so without any directive to revoke existing FCC licenses

that would have to occur within the framework of a process in the FCC itself and that will likely take time. And in that time maybe DJI drone users and their alliances will be able to stifle any momentum in the FCC for revoking licenses of current drones

I'm just not sure what kind of influence the evil empire of Skydio will leverage with the FCC

 

[mavic3usa]

yeah...I'm not thinking it will go that far. From the article that franklinskite posted earlier today, it sounds like if this ban does pass (seems likely at this point), it will do so without any directive to revoke existing FCC licenses

that would have to occur within the framework of a process in the FCC itself and that will likely take time. And in that time maybe DJI drone users and their alliances will be able to stifle any momentum in the FCC for revoking licenses of current drones

I'm just not sure what kind of influence the evil empire of Skydio will leverage with the FCC

I hope so. As I mentioned, the situation is fluid and very volatile. All it takes is one rogue DJI drone caught spying or an errant shot from a Chinese vessel towards a civilian Taiwanese vessel or anything that could trigger a negative reaction. While likely not the case here, I often worry about false flag incidents.....because people are slowly learning what they are and how effective they can be.

 

[franklinskite]

As the worm turns:

'Lawmakers in the House and Senate are pushing legislation to ban Chinese-made drones from entering the United States. But the leading Chinese companies manufacturing those drones are making moves to stay a step ahead of them.

One of China’s biggest drone makers, Da Jiang Innovations (DJI), is already partnering with a U.S.-based company Anzu Robotics to license its technology for sale in the American market.

Another firm, the Hong Kong-based Cogito Tech Company Limited, registered through the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in August 2023 to sell drones in the United States. Experts on drones say two of its drone products approved for sale in the U.S., the Specta Air and Specta Mini, are nearly identical to products produced by DJI.

The new businesses suggest China’s dominant drone companies are taking steps to make sure that their products reach U.S. consumers even if Congress does pass a ban similar to the one that just hit TikTok.

DJI, in a statement to The Hill, didn’t directly confirm a connection with Cogito or Anzu but said it frequently gets requests for collaboration.

“We will defer to these companies to provide specific details about our partnerships,” DJI said in the statement. “However, this approach aligns with our continuous and long-term dedication to making our flying platforms as adaptable as possible.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4714269-chinas-dominant-drone-industry-is-a-step-ahead-of-congress/

 

[Photomaker 59]

Chad, please explain your view that corporations are bribing congress members... how does it relate to the proposed ban?

I can tell you that the person who introduced this Bill has something to do with Skydio or another competitor of DJI. What gets me is that our Government did NOTHING about Spy Balloons floating across the USA, but want to ban Drones many of us rely on for our Livelihood. My Drone is 95% work, 5% recreation.