Air 2 An Epic 14,000ft Mountain Climb On Kit Carson Mt. in Colorado and the Death of my Air 2!

[SethB]

The explanation of flying into and out of wilderness areas was incorrect. People either quit reading or simply do not care about their impact on the animal life and why it illegal to fly over/in/through these areas to begin with. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the national forest service is not going to agree with your lengthy assessment and lack of research that was done (check the attachment)… I’m actually surprised that the impact on animals is not enough of a reason to not use the drone in those areas to begin with seeing as how you seem to be an avid outdoorsman...

Scroll a little upwards on the page @chefjrb quoted (link) and you’ll find this:
“UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” as such they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated Wilderness Areas.”

It is not legal to take off from, land in, or operate in wilderness, which is protected as above. This is similar to restrictions by many agencies and landowners who consider drone operation from their property a trespassing use. And they have that right. However, it’s also established that overflying most (not all) of those properties is permissible use, as part of our National Airspace System (NAS), regulated by the FAA. Typical exceptions relate to the air traffic controlled areas around airports, and sensitive areas relating to national security.

Wilderness airspace is not excepted from the NAS, though drones are also required to be flown within Visual Line of Sight (VLOS), which is restrictive of legal overflights of wilderness areas, national parks, national monuments, etc. Practically speaking, only the first few hundred feet can be flown within VLOS.

It is not legal to harass wildlife. That’s true nationwide, on public and private lands of all kinds.

My read is that @Karlewski did neither of those things in the video, nor has he done so in his other videos. The mere presence of a drone or other aircraft above public lands - even wilderness lands - does not mean harassment has occured.

Maybe I missed something in the video. Is there harassment of wildlife? Are there other hikers whose enjoyment of the wilderness was impaired? To me, the use seems entirely legal and non-harassing of animals and people. And I enjoyed watching it!

 

[chefjrb]

Scroll a little upwards on the page @chefjrb quoted (link) and you’ll find this:
“UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” as such they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated Wilderness Areas.”

It is not legal to take off from, land in, or operate in wilderness, which is protected as above. This is similar to restrictions by many agencies and landowners who consider drone operation from their property a trespassing use. And they have that right. However, it’s also established that overflying most (not all) of those properties is permissible use, as part of our National Airspace System (NAS), regulated by the FAA. Typical exceptions relate to the air traffic controlled areas around airports, and sensitive areas relating to national security.

Wilderness airspace is not excepted from the NAS, though drones are also required to be flown within Visual Line of Sight (VLOS), which is restrictive of legal overflights of wilderness areas, national parks, national monuments, etc. Practically speaking, only the first few hundred feet can be flown within VLOS.

It is not legal to harass wildlife. That’s true nationwide, on public and private lands of all kinds.

My read is that @Karlewski did neither of those things in the video, nor has he done so in his other videos. The mere presence of a drone or other aircraft above public lands - even wilderness lands - does not mean harassment has occured.

Maybe I missed something in the video. Is there harassment of wildlife? Are there other hikers whose enjoyment of the wilderness was impaired? To me, the use seems entirely legal and non-harassing of animals and people. And I enjoyed watching

Scroll a little upwards on the page @chefjrb quoted (link) and you’ll find this:
“UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” as such they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated Wilderness Areas.”

It is not legal to take off from, land in, or operate in wilderness, which is protected as above. This is similar to restrictions by many agencies and landowners who consider drone operation from their property a trespassing use. And they have that right. However, it’s also established that overflying most (not all) of those properties is permissible use, as part of our National Airspace System (NAS), regulated by the FAA. Typical exceptions relate to the air traffic controlled areas around airports, and sensitive areas relating to national security.

Wilderness airspace is not excepted from the NAS, though drones are also required to be flown within Visual Line of Sight (VLOS), which is restrictive of legal overflights of wilderness areas, national parks, national monuments, etc. Practically speaking, only the first few hundred feet can be flown within VLOS.

It is not legal to harass wildlife. That’s true nationwide, on public and private lands of all kinds.

My read is that @Karlewski did neither of those things in the video, nor has he done so in his other videos. The mere presence of a drone or other aircraft above public lands - even wilderness lands - does not mean harassment has occured.

Maybe I missed something in the video. Is there harassment of wildlife? Are there other hikers whose enjoyment of the wilderness was impaired? To me, the use seems entirely legal and non-harassing of animals and people. And I enjoyed watching it!

I feel as though you are fixated on the animal issue meanwhile dismissing the only part that matters. I apologize for putting so much emphasis on the animal harassment aspect to have caused this. Being considerate to the animals is only a byproduct (a very noble one in my opinion) of not flying in, on, or over wilderness areas. I don’t understand the insistent behavior of drone pilots to push, pull, bend, and even break clear cut rules and regulations to get a shot. Then will be the first to be surprised when someone flies a drone into a building or people. It’s because those people come into these discussions and read the endless banter about clear cut rules and join the mob of miseducated drone pilots armed with everything but the truth. I will be the first to admit that the cohesiveness of rules across all government entities is lacking at best. There are rules that contradict rules from differning agencies as well as rules that are in place by entities that one would not think to look, like the Forest Service. But ignorance is not an excuse and knowing the rules and choosing to go against it is deplorable and further exacerbated by trying to justify it. The inability of people to understand that they are not special and all of the rules apply to them just like everyone else is a major contributor to this behavior. At the end of the day we can all find contradicting info and have endless discussion about it but if the idea is to create more informative, safe and environmentally aware drone pilots on this forum then we are failing for a couple likes on social media. The attachment points out the only argument I have about what the videographer chose to do.

 

[SethB]

What’s quoted in the attachment above does not have the force of law behind it.

@chefjrb many of us have made extensive study of the law as required to pass the FAA’s Remote Pilot Knowledge Exam and obtain our Pt. 107 certification, following the actual laws published in Chapter 14 Part 107 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR pt. 107)(link), and other related laws and regulations. These are what’s been authorized by Congress and signed by the President.

You advise us to “follow the rules”, you say that we are not. This is factually incorrect for what we know of the video at the head of this thread.

We all have started out not knowing the regulatory environment, there’s no shame in that. If you’re interested in knowing more about legally flying drones for recreation or commercial purposes you’ll find the most accurate information at the link above and at faa.gov/uas (link). There is indeed a lot of misinformation and/or loose interpretation of regulation and law on the internet, and some of it comes from various local, state, and federal agencies. Go to the sources linked above for the real info.

Possibly you are confusing wilderness with National Wildlife Refuges, which do prohibit any overflights at altitudes below 2000 feet.

With some exceptions, the FAA is the sole regulator of the NAS. Wilderness is not one of those exceptions.

 

[Karlewski]

I am glad this is a productive conversation. . . I was really fearing the worst. Illustrating the rules and how to follow them matters for all of us if we want continue with our hobby and responsibly.
I am grateful for you guys handling it this way. . . As much as I was doing my best to follow the rules, I do not want to send the wrong message either and end up encouraging a new pilot to jump right in and go for similar footage without the proper knowledge that we have. The new pilot saw the incredible waterfall and really wants his own experience like that without doing the extensive homework and or tough leg work. Or the new pilot does not really care to respect the people or animals in the area anyway. . . Especially these days. . . I do think the vast majority of forum members here are responsible people and, as much as I HATE the idea, maybe more regulation should be in place just to start the education process for new pilots tempted to make mistakes, I know I made a couple. . . Thank-you guys!

 

[TerryToast]

Awesome video Karl! Well done mate.

Ignore the prior comments of “rules and regulations”, in particular the suggestion that you should take your video down before the FAA come knocking.

The truth is that the FAA focus their limited resources on dangerous flights, which your is clearly not. In the very remote chance that the FAA did contact you, it would be a warning letter and you could adjust your flights then if necessary.

Lastly, if people could please restrain for raising rules & regulations in each post, it would be much appreciated. There in an area of the forum for those discussions.