Another incident of stupidity

[Interficiam Stercore]

sure definitely prosecute.

but I’m saying those larger craft should fly through space occupied by the little drone, destroy it.

as opposed to flying back to base and not doing their mission.

Better to avoid it. If a heli makes contact with any object be it a bird, drone or errant bullet, their protocols require them to return to their base of operations or any safe area, if needed, for inspection. Once hit, they can't be sure of what damage occurred and if it will eventually cause equipment malfunction. Thus, we lose one of our assets while an assessment is being undertaken.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

So if helicopters or tanker aircraft encounter a drone, are they in danger of being brought down from a collision with a drone, most of which are under 2 kg, or even 1 kg?

I'm not saying people who fly into these areas shouldn't be penalized.

Just trying to understand how a tiny drone would interfere with firefighting operations. Would a 2 kg drone cause the rotors of the helicopter to get damaged, making them fall out of the sky?

Or those larger tanker planes, would those props be broken?

Why wouldn't they face risks from bird strikes? There may not be too many birds which are 1 or 2 kg but there are a lot more of them.

I think we learned a lot from when the Drone shut down the UK air port for hours on end.
At that point it became a matter of Control for me. and all emergency services want the skies clear.

Understanding it s not all about safety makes it easier for me to swallow and that we drone flyers make a fantastic Scape Goat if anything goes wrong .

What I do find funny is that they make the Drone spotted in the area as if it was purposely going to crash , and i dont think that is the case > I would be willing to bet they are all completely unaware of any laws at all.

Which is why the 107 permits give us an advantage in knowledge as well as keeping aware of the Forum .


Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain

 

[MARK (LI)]

sure definitely prosecute.

but I’m saying those larger craft should fly through space occupied by the little drone, destroy it.

as opposed to flying back to base and not doing their mission.

It's not that simple...there are incidents in which a bit of foreign matter or debris gets sucked into a turbine or a prop and causes damage .......critical damage...a Manned aircraft has a pilot who is trained in ADM....Aeronautical Decision making...and risk management is part of that...so the guy in command has to make a decision based on knowing that a drone is "up there"...which could possibly be hit by a chopper and possibly damage the windshield, the engine ..one of the rotors...a number of components of a helicopter...does he take that risk?..it is a big decision for that individual...one that could end his career if he makes the wrong decision......one he would not have to make if the guy who did not belong there used common sense to begin with

 

[wco81]

Better to avoid it. If a heli makes contact with any object be it a bird, drone or errant bullet, their protocols require them to return to their base of operations or any safe area, if needed, for inspection. Once hit, they can't be sure of what damage occurred and if it will eventually cause equipment malfunction. Thus, we lose one of our assets while an assessment is being undertaken.

Yeah that makes sense.

It's not like drones have a huge footprint and they're not faster than the firefighting aircraft so why can't they easily avoid drones?

 

[MARK (LI)]

Have you tried to keep your eyes on your drone as it is flying on a clear day and you have a good idea where you think it is?....A heli pilot in a fire is flying in smokey conditions and using his resources to fly and operate the aircraft.....his level of stress should not be adversely effected by the unnecessary task of trying to see a drone ...diminishing the attention he has to already pay to the tedious job at hand...you have to come to understand that flying drones is a privilege...it is not a right....but we will lose the privilege if people don't use common sense and stop bringing negative attention to the subject

 

[Ty Pilot]

Just trying to understand how a tiny drone would interfere with firefighting operations. Would a 2 kg drone cause the rotors of the helicopter to get damaged, making them fall out of the sky?

Or those larger tanker planes, would those props be broken?

Are you assuming that all contact from a drone would only hit the rotor or propeller's?

but I’m saying those larger craft should fly through space occupied by the little drone, destroy it.

The Space shuttle Columbia disaster was caused because a piece of foam insulation that had broke off from it's own main fuel cell as it launched and punctured the leading edge of the shuttle.

There are countless videos on youtube of birds striking the windshields of aircraft and entering the cabin, some times injuring the pilot.

Here is one such video showing a bird going through the prop first, and then blowing out the windshield in front of the pilot. Luckily the pilot only had minor damage but if he had been knocked out - that would be it.

Also keep mind, mind this guy is only flying about (I'm guessing) 140 knots. Notice how the bird cannot be seen until the last second. So the idea that pilot of large aircraft could avoid drones is a fallacy.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I do want to support those that have brought up how difficult it is to really see a drone,

I have done a few long distance videos now and used spotters and its very difficult for them to find the drone even when I come down to 100 ft , its been frustrating for them.

I can only imagine how hard it would be to see a drone from the sky even when they know where the drone is at so clear skies for them is essential , however I am not sure they need to always return to base, I think that is the part I struggle with and hope changes are made.

Not to mention how many times I took my eyes away from my own drone and than could not find it again.
These are all things to take into consideration as to how hard a drone is to see in the sky.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain

 

[AZDave]

Yeah that makes sense.

It's not like drones have a huge footprint and they're not faster than the firefighting aircraft so why can't they easily avoid drones?

Have you tried to keep your eyes on your drone as it is flying on a clear day and you have a good idea where you think it is?....A heli pilot in a fire is flying in smokey conditions and using his resources to fly and operate the aircraft.....his level of stress should not be adversely effected by the unnecessary task of trying to see a drone ...diminishing the attention he has to already pay to the tedious job at hand...you have to come to understand that flying drones is a privilege...it is not a right....but we will lose the privilege if people don't use common sense and stop bringing negative attention to the subject

Exactly. Can't believe wco81 would expect the helicopter pilot to have to deal with a drone with everything else he has on his plate. The helicopter pilot is literally risking his life and trying to save the property and potentially lives of others, and yet he should also have to worry about some stupid drone pilot?? Makes no sense to me at all.

 

[wco81]

For the umpteenth time, I'm not advocating that drones be allowed to fly in fire zones.

I'm just saying if the craft encounter them, why is it so difficult to deal with these tiny things?

If they're honestly saying they these tankers and helicopters have to abandon their missions and go back to base, it doesn't sound right.

Why aren't they worried about crashing into birds or birds crashing into them?

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I think we all agree that drones should not be flown where there may be emergency services but that the Policy of handing the drones need to be changed or improved upon.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.

 

[AZDave]

Why aren't they worried about crashing into birds or birds crashing into them?

Who says they aren't worried about that? The difference is that birds can't read FAA rules.

 

[Ty Pilot]

For the umpteenth time, I'm not advocating that drones be allowed to fly in fire zones.

I'm just saying if the craft encounter them, why is it so difficult to deal with these tiny things?

If they're honestly saying they these tankers and helicopters have to abandon their missions and go back to base, it doesn't sound right.

Why aren't they worried about crashing into birds or birds crashing into them?

A drone has been shown to do more damage than a bird of the same size. Here is a video where the testers show what a drone can do to an aircraft's structure and to your point - they also test an equivalent mass to simulate a bird strike.

 

[DoomMeister]

sure definitely prosecute.

but I’m saying those larger craft should fly through space occupied by the little drone, destroy it.

as opposed to flying back to base and not doing their mission.

You have got to be kidding!!! Then the pilot would have to report they were involved with a midair collision when they knew there were other aircraft in the area. That will NEVER happen!!!

 

[MARK (LI)]

For the umpteenth time, I'm not advocating that drones be allowed to fly in fire zones.

I'm just saying if the craft encounter them, why is it so difficult to deal with these tiny things?

If they're honestly saying they these tankers and helicopters have to abandon their missions and go back to base, it doesn't sound right.

Why aren't they worried about crashing into birds or birds crashing into them?

@wco81 ..You really are not reading the responses...no one is saying that you advocate allowing drones into a fire zone...you are being shown the reasons why it should not be done...ADM ( Aeronautical decision making ) is a critical component of pilot training and there is a responsibility for the person who has that task, and it is not taken lightly....It has been explained a few different ways as to what the challenge is for a chopper pilot to see, identify and then try to avoid a drone while handling a fire...and the damage it can do to manned aircraft and possibly its occupants....if you don't think it sounds right after what has been mentioned already I don't think you will grasp how serious a problem it can be......the presence of birds is a recognized problem that the FAA takes seriously and issues a type of NOTAM. specifically a BIRDNAM...and keep in mind that birds are not as hard as a drone with its battery in it....so if you just don't understand that part of it, I think all of us on this site would like to keep the negative publicity to a minimum...in many jurisdictions lawmakers are dreaming up ways to restrict the use of drones...they get lazy about it and don't take any action, until something like this hits the news and wakes them up again

 

[smashse]

Drone Injures Helicopter Crewmember | AIN

Drone pierces windshield of Chilean Navy UH-57B, injuring front seat crewmember.

www.ainonline.com

Can you imagine if this hit the pilot at 140 knots in the face? Right through the windscreen, then add in a ton of smoke inside the cabin now because there is a massive hole in the windscreen.

As stated above, part of the problem is the small size. If you can't see it until it is 20 feet from you then add in smoky conditions, you can't avoid it. Think about boats, the larger craft always has right of way, why? Because they can't change course nearly as fast. (that is unless you are Captain Ron /s...) And this article was a Bell UH57B, a Govt/Military variant of a Jet Ranger.

And, since they didn't mention the type of drone, how positive are we it isn't like that one in Arizona that outran and out maneuvered a CBP Heli.

New Details Emerge On The "Highly Modified Drone" That Outran Police Helicopters Over Tucson

The drone was first detected near an energy storage facility across from Davis-Monthan AFB before evading two pursuing law enforcement helicopters.

www.thedrive.com

My last point, since i was late getting to the discussion, is that pretty sure, if I have no internet connection, I can still get my drone in the sky, and a TFR wouldn't matter. This is of course assuming DJI, and not an Autel, or a homebuilt.

Just sayin... Fly safe everyone

 

[Robert Prior]

Why wouldn't they face risks from bird strikes? There may not be too many birds which are 1 or 2 kg but there are a lot more of them.

And they're a lot softer. A 2 kg bird will do less damage than a 2 kg drone.

Years ago at the NRC they had a student helping with the chicken cannon used to test the effects of bird strikes on engines, canopies, etc. Someone forgot to tell him to thaw the chickens out first, and equipment that should have survived was destroyed when hit with a solid chicken rather than a normal one…

 

[AZDave]

Years ago at the NRC they had a student helping with the chicken cannon used to test the effects of bird strikes on engines, canopies, etc. Someone forgot to tell him to thaw the chickens out first, and equipment that should have survived was destroyed when hit with a solid chicken rather than a normal one…

That's an urban legend.

 

[Tim40]

Some of the drone stuff - it's political (drones are so evil, if one is in the air, everything else must land) - for instance, a chopper is going to come out on top of any random drone/chopper collision 99.999% of the time (just guessing here). The rotors alone on a chopper - will blow any drone to kingdom come (not guessing). Likely same with airplanes (guessing again).
This post will incite some - but common sense demands it.
I'm not saying that we should be allowed to fly drones over fires - we shouldn't, and that is good law - but I am saying that if some jerk is flying a drone over the fire/whatever - that operations should continue while the cops find the pilot, take the drone down, and jail the pilot pending trial. IMHO.

 

[DoomMeister]

Some of the drone stuff - it's political (drones are so evil, if one is in the air, everything else must land) - for instance, a chopper is going to come out on top of any random drone/chopper collision 99.999% of the time (just guessing here). The rotors alone on a chopper - will blow any drone to kingdom come (not guessing). Likely same with airplanes (guessing again).
This post will incite some - but common sense demands it.
I'm not saying that we should be allowed to fly drones over fires - we shouldn't, and that is good law - but I am saying that if some jerk is flying a drone over the fire/whatever - that operations should continue while the cops find the pilot, take the drone down, and jail the pilot pending trial. IMHO.

Your reasoning would imply that bird strikes shouldn’t happen either, but ask any pilot of planes or helicopters how that pans out.

The rules are simple and easily understood. DO NOT FLY near emergency operations and yield right of way to any manned flight regardless if they are legal or not in their flight pattern.

I find it beyond comprehension that people keep trying to justify flying in these areas. I guess it would take having a wildfire about to engulf their home and the inbound chopper with a load of water gets turned away because some idiot has a drone up in the area. Final result is their home is left in a pile of ashes. Worse yet would be that the chopper is not turned away a midair collision ensues with the drone sucked into the turbine of the chopper. The chopper crashes killing the crew and bursts into flame adding to the fire.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Some of the drone stuff - it's political (drones are so evil, if one is in the air, everything else must land) - for instance, a chopper is going to come out on top of any random drone/chopper collision 99.999% of the time (just guessing here). The rotors alone on a chopper - will blow any drone to kingdom come (not guessing). Likely same with airplanes (guessing again).
This post will incite some - but common sense demands it.
I'm not saying that we should be allowed to fly drones over fires - we shouldn't, and that is good law - but I am saying that if some jerk is flying a drone over the fire/whatever - that operations should continue while the cops find the pilot, take the drone down, and jail the pilot pending trial. IMHO.

Unfortunately, common sense does not always take into consideration the true nature of physics.

I posted two links to videos above, clearly showing that indeed an object like a bird or a drone, can and will - 1] penetrate through a spinning propeller and have enough energy to the completely blow through a cockpit windshield and impact the pilot and - 2] a drone hitting the wing of a fast moving aircraft completely penetrating the leading edge and even causing damage to a main spar.

I am certainly not saying that every drone encounter with a manned aircraft, will bring that aircraft down. But there is enough evidence to show that it could happen, and in light of that; the regulations we fly under are made. Even if the risk is only a 1% chance that a drone could take out a manned aircraft, who would want to be the pilot of that drone?