Welcome Mavic Pilot!
Jump in and join our free DJI Mavic community today!
Sign up

Approval to fly near non LAANC airports.

wsteele

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
67
Reaction score
57
Age
72
I fly about 2 miles from Clearwater Air Park as a recreational flyer. Last year I used the DJI Fly Safe application to get a release to fly and then notified the Air Park via email of my location, flight time, flight altitude.

This year I tried AirMap but couldn’t get approval because they are not LAANC. I was able to get my Mavic 2 Pro to fly yesterday using DJI Fly safe and I stopped by the air park and they said just send notifications when I plan to fly like I did last year.

So I would be sending notification rather than obtaining approval from Clearwater Air Park to fly. Is that acceptable under the new rules?
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I fly about 2 miles from Clearwater Air Park as a recreational flyer. Last year I used the DJI Fly Safe application to get a release to fly and then notified the Air Park via email of my location, flight time, flight altitude.

This year I tried AirMap but couldn’t get approval because they are not LAANC. I was able to get my Mavic 2 Pro to fly yesterday using DJI Fly safe and I stopped by the air park and they said just send notifications when I plan to fly like I did last year.

So I would be sending notification rather than obtaining approval from Clearwater Air Park to fly. Is that acceptable under the new rules?
Clearwater Airpark is a non-towered airport. It’s in class G airspace.

You don’t have to notify them of anything. It sounds like they’d like you to and it’s a good idea but you aren’t required to. They aren’t in LAANC because they do not control any airspace.

You do have to worry about St. Pete-Clearwater Internationals Class D but they do participate in LAANC

5DC46D72-5CFE-46BC-BCA5-76442A12D62A.png
77957C06-E14A-4892-941D-AAA9162BCC2E.jpeg
 
Last edited:

DanMan32

Well-Known Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
4,128
Reaction score
1,448
Age
53
I would have thought PIE airspace would have bled into the Clearwater Airpark. Typically controlled airspace is within 5 miles of its airport. At least it is with BKS.
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I would have thought PIE airspace would have bled into the Clearwater Airpark. Typically controlled airspace is within 5 miles of its airport. At least it is with BKS.
Correct but Clearwater Airpark is more than 5 miles from PIE and you can clearly see in the chart it is outside the Class D cylinder.

Like I said though, he DOES still have to worry about PIE Class D, however, if he's two miles to the Southeast or South Southeast. Good news is PIE participates in LAANC.

I do have one correction to what I said earlier. There is a Mode C Veil out to 30 nm so when I said it is class G airspace I am not sure if that is technically correct. I was zoomed in too far to see it before. For sUAS pilots this differentiation is moot because sUAS don't follow Mode C but I might have been technically incorrect that it's class G for that reason. For us its the same thing as class g, however. @BigAl07 will know this.

KCLWtoPIE.jpg
Class D cylinder in blue.
PIE_ClassD.jpg
Mode C veil outlined in magenta
ModeCveil.jpg
 

BigAl07

Administrator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
3,501
Age
49
Location
Western NC, USA
I've not looked at the charts etc but the Mode-C veil does not apply to sUAS. If it's Class-G it's class-G "for sUAS".

Technically you'll want to get this directly from the "Source" (aka FAA via your local office) which is always your best option. Here's a link to the FSO that service your areas:


Give them a call with your question and exact location and you'll have it "Official". Just make sure you're following all applicable laws/rules as they could be a HOT/BUSY area.
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I've not looked at the charts etc but the Mode-C veil does not apply to sUAS. If it's Class-G it's class-G "for sUAS".

Technically you'll want to get this directly from the "Source" (aka FAA via your local office) which is always your best option. Here's a link to the FSO that service your areas:


Give them a call with your question and exact location and you'll have it "Official". Just make sure you're following all applicable laws/rules as they could be a HOT/BUSY area.
More of a technical question than anything but since sUAS don't follow Mode-C veil would it be correct to call airspace that only has mode-c veil Class G? At least in the context of sUAS? Mode-c is kinda a weird one that I didn't study at all for the 107 since we don't have to worry about it.

Just don't want to look like a fool if I say an airspace class G but turns out its under mode-c veil lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07

BigAl07

Administrator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
3,501
Age
49
Location
Western NC, USA
More of a technical question than anything but since sUAS don't follow Mode-C veil would it be correct to call airspace that only has mode-c veil Class G? At least in the context of sUAS? Mode-c is kinda a weird one that I didn't study at all for the 107 since we don't have to worry about it.

Just don't want to look like a fool if I say an airspace class G but turns out its under mode-c veil lol
I'm going to reach out to Oklahoma and get an "official" ruling so that both of us don't look silly if it comes back something different. Better safe than sorry :)
 

BigAl07

Administrator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
3,501
Age
49
Location
Western NC, USA
Here is the "Official" word from the FAA (copy and paste)

"Good afternoon Allen.

There is no requirement for Mode C capability in either Part 107 or The Exception for Limited Recreational Operations (Section 44809). Therefore, Mode C is not required when flying under those rules. "

So it's "just" Class G and nothing more for our purposes.
 

jeplane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
303
Reaction score
472
Age
50
since sUAS don't follow Mode-C veil would it be correct to call airspace that only has mode-c veil Class G?
The mode C veil was invented so that airplanes would fly with a transponder in class B airspace.

Like with gliders, UAS do not require transponders.

No, it wouldn’t be correct to call airspace with a mode C veil a class G, since it is actually for class B.

Class G may or may not for the majority, resides near or under class B airspace.
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Here is the "Official" word from the FAA (copy and paste)

"Good afternoon Allen.

There is no requirement for Mode C capability in either Part 107 or The Exception for Limited Recreational Operations (Section 44809). Therefore, Mode C is not required when flying under those rules. "

So it's "just" Class G and nothing more for our purposes.
Sweet! Thanks for doing that!
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
The mode C veil was invented so that airplanes would fly with a transponder in class B airspace.

Like with gliders, UAS do not require transponders.

No, it wouldn’t be correct to call airspace with a mode C veil a class G, since it is actually for class B.

Class G may or may not for the majority, resides near or under class B airspace.
Well if class B starts at 3000 ft but the mode c is at the surface then is the airspace at 400 ft technically Class G? Is the crux of the question. Seems the answer from yes if I understand @BigAl07 correctly
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07

BigAl07

Administrator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
3,501
Age
49
Location
Western NC, USA
Well if class B starts at 3000 ft but the mode c is at the surface then is the airspace at 400 ft technically Class G? Is the crux of the question. Seems the answer from yes if I understand @BigAl07 correctly

If those conditions you noted are accurate (again I've not even looked at the sectional for that area) then yes unless otherwise noted it's G up to the B airspace.

This is to keep Manned Aircraft from "Popping Up" into BRAVO without Mode-C capabilities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brett8883

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah

wsteele

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
67
Reaction score
57
Age
72
Thanks for all the input and probably more than I understood. I fly in a field Northwest of Keene and Union. I still need to use my MacBook to log on to dji FlySafe to get “clearance” to fly since Dji shows I need authorization within 5 miles of Clearwater Air Park.

this doesn’t show up on Air Map as you stated but still can’t fly unless I go through DJIs process.
 

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Thanks for all the input and probably more than I understood. I fly in a field Northwest of Keene and Union. I still need to use my MacBook to log on to dji FlySafe to get “clearance” to fly since Dji shows I need authorization within 5 miles of Clearwater Air Park.

this doesn’t show up on Air Map as you stated but still can’t fly unless I go through DJIs process.
That’s correct. You are right in the runway path of the airport so DJI has made this a “self-unlockable” authorization zone.

If DJI Go 4 has internet access when you are ready to fly you could just check the box and and agree to assume the risks.

This one isn’t unreasonable since you are very close to the airport. It’s to make you aware of how close you are and to make sure you pay attention. You have no legal or regulatory obligations to do anything else though it’s more than a good idea to call and inform the airport especially since they told you they want to you to but you have no “requirement” to from a legal standpoint.

CF3B7131-0C37-446D-9D55-A89192B77BB2.jpeg
0CF10F09-CE04-45DE-9782-9E2AEAFA2065.jpeg
 

jeplane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
303
Reaction score
472
Age
50
Well if class B starts at 3000 ft but the mode c is at the surface then is the airspace at 400 ft technically Class G?
I am sorry, I misunderstood your question initially.

So I will add to my answer: the mode C veil is for aircraft operating in class B. The fact that the veil is much bigger than the class B itself, (30 Nm wide) is so that ATC can see a target operating near the class B. Usually they have fast targets like jets, and they appreciate they can see a new target popping up on their screen, so they can follow what it is up to.

Because the veil has nothing to do with drone operation, we should just forget about it in this discussion.

So once again, you are either in class B, C, D (requiring LAANC) or in class G. The veil is irrelevant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: errorborn

superstarpup

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Messages
170
Reaction score
188
Location
CO
I've not looked at the charts etc but the Mode-C veil does not apply to sUAS. If it's Class-G it's class-G "for sUAS".
And class g for everyone else.

More of a technical question than anything but since sUAS don't follow Mode-C veil would it be correct to call airspace that only has mode-c veil Class G? At least in the context of sUAS? Mode-c is kinda a weird one that I didn't study at all for the 107 since we don't have to worry about it.

Just don't want to look like a fool if I say an airspace class G but turns out its under mode-c veil lol
Class g is class g, regardless of the veil or the airspace above it. The presence of the mode-c veil is meaningless to suas, it only matters to almost all manned aircraft (there’s exceptions, but doesn’t matter in suas context), it’s still class g airspace. Class G underneath class b is still class g, there are just speed restrictions, which again for suas, won’t really matter.

FA6180FF-2778-4485-9CF9-3336583540D3.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: errorborn

brett8883

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
2,660
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
And class g for everyone else.



Class g is class g, regardless of the veil or the airspace above it. The presence of the mode-c veil is meaningless to suas, it only matters to almost all manned aircraft (there’s exceptions, but doesn’t matter in suas context), it’s still class g airspace. Class G underneath class b is still class g, there are just speed restrictions, which again for suas, won’t really matter.

View attachment 83218
I got it now. I made it more complicated then it was. Just didn’t want to be that guy that gave bad info
 

harle83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
32
Age
57
Here where I live we do indeed have Control Towered Airport. I use LAANC because I do some nonprofit work for a church. The nice thing is when I have called them because it’s about a mile and a half away if anything is coming or going they will tell me. I’m always able to get it it done and I let them know so they know I’m done. I was shocked that we had one but never know.