Are any drone countermeasures actually legal?

[Mousehunter]

Sorry if this is a self dupe, but I think my anonymous post went to cyber jail.

Reading a drone thread in another forum. OP there has a drone problem. Someone is flying a drone in his back yard below his privacy fence level to look into his house windows. Very likely they are either peeping toms or casing his house for a robbery. I am pro-rc and pro drone - but flying in someone’s back yard so low that a decent dog could try to catch it like a frisbee is just wrong (and after seen what prop strikes can do to a person’s face and hand, I would be livid if my dog got torn up because of some idiots drone). FAA has rules against downing an aircraft. Other than closing his drapes, I am just not sure what that person can do legally. Just curious about opinions on doing something like tying mono to tree limbs to make a personal no-fly zone in a back yard. Pilots like this one are going to ruin the hobby for all of us.

 

[CactusJackSlade]

My personal view is that anything below about 100 feet could be considered "peeping". I am aware that the FAA claims airspace... ALL airspace, but I think that is going to change in the future. My worry is that they may give some bogus restrictions like "not under 300 feet if over private property"... leaving us with a 100 foot zone to work with - 300 to 400 feet.

As a 107 flyer and at the same time a person who does not want to be pestered or "peeped" on by drones or other ways I would say somewhere in the 75 to 125 foot AGL might be a reasonable limit over private property. My argument there is if a police chopper came overhead, even at 500 feet they could photo/video more detail than we can at 100+ feet.

As to your other question, I suppose you could string fishing line around... but you would also potentially be endangering birds as well... and end up with a bird rehabilitation business??!

I would bet if you read your local peeping tom laws they would lay out what is acceptable and not. I would think they would apply no matter if in the air or on the ground. I mean after all, what if I came up behind your fence on stilts or some kind of a lift and looked over? Would that be an invasion of privacy? I am quite sure it would. I think it might come down to what exactly one is doing (taking photos, video or just looking) and the intent of the individual.

Personal privacy is IMO, a bit of a complicated issue. If I am in a public place I do not expect much, if any privacy. When we are in our homes we expect a certain level of privacy. That being said, what if I am in a public park on a hill... and that hill overlooks private property and I'm up there with my 1000mm 2.8 telephoto lens looking around? Not so clear cut.

 

[CactusJackSlade]

Oh, as far as legal countermeasures, I am only aware of the electronic type that can only be used by government agencies at this point.

When Remote ID gets kicked in anyone will most likely be able to look at an app and see if any one is flying near by. This will be both good and bad IMO.

The bad will be when someone using said app who does not know the law comes after me while I'm out doing a perfectly legal job and now they can come track you down and harass you - that is my fear.

The good from remote ID will be that peepers and idiots will be able to be tracked down.

 

[Mousehunter]

when it comes to law enforcement, privacy simply does not exist anymore. I have read on other forums where game wardens are going onto private property and planting cellular based "game cameras" Given that they only connect to transmit pictures (they are motion activated, and use no glow IR cameras to take pictures) - they can monitor activity covertly and automatically for months. All without a search warrant. Game wardens tend to have special rules, they can come onto private property at any time to enforce game laws without search warrents - but I would bet if the police wanted the pictures they would set up an automatic forwarding system without being asked twice. The case I recall ultimately resulted in a property owner's son being arrested for shooting dove out of season.

 

[pgenneken]

The schmucks who are ruining it for everybody will just go build a drone without Remote ID.. Or fly older drones that do not have it.

 

[WobblingWillie]

Sorry if this is a self dupe, but I think my anonymous post went to cyber jail.

Reading a drone thread in another forum. OP there has a drone problem. Someone is flying a drone in his back yard below his privacy fence level to look into his house windows. Very likely they are either peeping toms or casing his house for a robbery. I am pro-rc and pro drone - but flying in someone’s back yard so low that a decent dog could try to catch it like a frisbee is just wrong (and after seen what prop strikes can do to a person’s face and hand, I would be livid if my dog got torn up because of some idiots drone). FAA has rules against downing an aircraft. Other than closing his drapes, I am just not sure what that person can do legally. Just curious about opinions on doing something like tying mono to tree limbs to make a personal no-fly zone in a back yard. Pilots like this one are going to ruin the hobby for all of us.

What he can do is call the police and make a report. Spying with a drone is illegal. Period.

 

[BigAl07]

when it comes to law enforcement, privacy simply does not exist anymore. I have read on other forums where game wardens are going onto private property and planting cellular based "game cameras" Given that they only connect to transmit pictures (they are motion activated, and use no glow IR cameras to take pictures) - they can monitor activity covertly and automatically for months. All without a search warrant. Game wardens tend to have special rules, they can come onto private property at any time to enforce game laws without search warrents - but I would bet if the police wanted the pictures they would set up an automatic forwarding system without being asked twice. The case I recall ultimately resulted in a property owner's son being arrested for shooting dove out of season.

First off, Game Wardens have the same laws all other Law Enforcement have. If they obtain evidence illegally, a decent attorney will have it thrown out in a heart beat. Civil Rights are Civil Rights regardless of the badge under the coat.

If that person has a "Peeping Tom" problem they need to call local LEO and file a complaint and let local ordinances come into play.

When I have someone contact me about incidents like this I say, "If it's close/low enough to knock it down by tossing a wadded up t-shirt, net, fishing line SAFELY take it down." If it's too high for such it's really too high to be doing much "damage".

Also there are issues such as reckless behavior etc that come into play in addition to privacy.

 

[Rich QR]

I don't think anybody has brought it up yet, but deliberately jamming the radio link between the drone and its controller is illegal everywhere in the USA (FCC rules), and I expect in many other countries, too.

Besides, with our DJI drones, it would most likely just invoke RTH, which is not so satisfying.

 

[Mousehunter]

I did not mention jamming - figured that would get you in trouble with both the FAA and FCC. Based on pictures it looked like a Mavic Pro. I am not sure exactly how those radios work, but am pretty sure they are frequency hopping (and per spec, multi band - but that might just mean the drone transmits on a different band than the TX). Plus, if signal is lost it should simply cause it to RTH. Of course if law enforcement jammed the GPS, that might work fairly well.

No disrespect to law enforcement. I was always told (at least in Texas) game wardens can come on your property. If during the course of their normal investigation (usually checking for fishing/hunting licenses) if they see other illegal activity - I have always assumed they would forward the information. I have also always been told being a Texas Game Warden is high risk because they sometimes walk into drug operations by themselves in the middle of nowhere. IIRC I have met Game wardens 2 or 3 times on my property. Each time they saw my vehicle from the road and came in to check my license. I have also had my license checked several times while fishing. Every meeting has been a positive encounter.

 

[vindibona1]

I think that if it were me in that situation and it was so low that one could reach it I would try to "net" it rather than down it by shooting it out of the sky or some other dangerous method. If one is legitimately so invasive, so inconsiderate and so intrusive that I don't think any law enforcement agency or individual would charge or even fault him. It wouldn't take much. If it's that close that you could throw anything over the propellers so it would ground itself that would certainly stop it. And while in general flying over private property itself is not outlawed, nor should be, there are clauses in many locales that makes it against ordinance if it significantly deprives the home/land owner of enjoyment and/or use of his property.

In other words I wouldn't necessarily encourage or discourage your friend from taking REASONABLE measures to protect his reasonble expectation of privacy. Again, the key word is reasonable. If he does take action he should call the police and let them sort it out. My guess is that if it was close enough to rope the drone the pilot would be deemed guilty of any of a number of things.

 

[dirkclod]

No disrespect to law enforcement. I was always told (at least in Texas) game wardens can come on your property. If during the course of their normal investigation (usually checking for fishing/hunting licenses) if they see other illegal activity - I have always assumed they would forward the information. I have also always been told being a Texas Game Warden is high risk because they sometimes walk into drug operations by themselves in the middle of nowhere. IIRC I have met Game wardens 2 or 3 times on my property. Each time they saw my vehicle from the road and came in to check my license. I have also had my license checked several times while fishing. Every meeting has been a positive encounter.

You are correct I am a retired GW and you must have missed responding here. Is there some sort of probation period regarding new posts?

 

[AVLJMA]

I wonder what the laws are concerning the paparazzi and privacy. I would imagine the drone spying would be akin to the paparazzi rules.

 

[AVLJMA]

I think that if it were me in that situation and it was so low that one could reach it I would try to "net" it rather than down it by shooting it out of the sky or some other dangerous method. If one is legitimately so invasive, so inconsiderate and so intrusive that I don't think any law enforcement agency or individual would charge or even fault him. It wouldn't take much. If it's that close that you could throw anything over the propellers so it would ground itself that would certainly stop it. And while in general flying over private property itself is not outlawed, nor should be, there are clauses in many locales that makes it against ordinance if it significantly deprives the home/land owner of enjoyment and/or use of his property.

In other words I wouldn't necessarily encourage or discourage your friend from taking REASONABLE measures to protect his reasonble expectation of privacy. Again, the key word is reasonable. If he does take action he should call the police and let them sort it out. My guess is that if it was close enough to rope the drone the pilot would be deemed guilty of any of a number of things.

I think it would be perfectly legit to toss a net or shirt over the intruding drone for "safety reasons." If someone is reckless enough to fly that close and NOT have a visual line of sight, who is to say that property damage or personal injury should not be a concern. 107 address hazardous flight as something that can cost you your license.

 

[Formosa Straight]

Not sure what the laws are in the USA but I can imagine them being similar to where I am (Australia). A lot of people get their private property confused with their privacy. If I am in a public place with a camera I can take pictures and videos to my hearts content of anything I feel like without asking permisssion of anybody else. If my shot captures someone in their private property bad luck, legally. I am in a public space and where they are has no bearing on the matter which is why the paparazzi can take photos of celebs from the street while they (the celebs) are inside their house etc etc etc. Spying is illegal when done agianst a sovereign state, when done commercially (against a company) it is a civil matter). Taking a picture or video of someone on their property from a public area is not spying and as such is not illegal. A caveat here, I am just explaining the law in my area as it stands. There is a difference between what is illegal and what is impolite or indecent. These situatiosn are impolite, indecent and I can't imagine why anyone would do that. But it isn't illegal. It is a reall thorny area. If the goverment creates laws against people "spying on you in your private property" how do you enforce that law? A quad flies past your house, was he spying or just flying past? Person walking down the street with their phone up, are they talking, texting or spying on you as they walk past? I don't have the solutions that will be satisfactory to everyone, but I will just continue to operate my gear in what I consider to be a morally and ethically high standard and hope the rest of the people who enjoy our hobby do the same.

 

[Barbara]

My personal view, if a drone were in my backyard, looking in windows, low enough that I could reach it, it's fair game. A broom would work just fine. If the owner comes looking for it, they explain it to the police, who would be waiting.

If the drone were higher (out of reach) and loitering, I guess I would have to decide whether or not to put my clothes back on , or strike a few poses. Really though, I can't imagine what anyone would find exciting about spying on me. If they are "casing the joint", then they are going to be disappointed.

 

[Duds]

Generally the rule is 50feet from a person and 150feet from a building or structure. If in reach hose the **** thing down and state you were simply watering the garden. That should scare him away.

 

[dljordaneku]

Generally the rule is 50feet from a person and 150feet from a building or structure. If in reach hose the **** thing down and state you were simply watering the garden. That should scare him away.

Yeah. It would be sad that someone's drone just "accidentally" got in the way of me watering my lawn.

 

[anotherlab]

While the privacy laws will vary from location to location, most follow the premise if your property can not be seen from a public access point (like a street), taking photographs of that location close enough to make out details is an invasion of privacy. If a drone is close enough to look in a window, that is probably violating a law. As @BigAl07 mentioned, if you can hit the drone with a balled-up t-shirt, then it's flying too close. With the exception of FAA rules about flying over people, all of this falls within the statutes of privacy laws.

I don't know if hitting a Mavic with water from a hose would be enough to take one down. If you hit a propeller with some fishing line, that would do it. If the drone is close enough to peep into a window, a fly fisherman would be able to land one.

 

[tlswift58]

Sorry if this is a self dupe, but I think my anonymous post went to cyber jail.

Reading a drone thread in another forum. OP there has a drone problem. Someone is flying a drone in his back yard below his privacy fence level to look into his house windows. Very likely they are either peeping toms or casing his house for a robbery. I am pro-rc and pro drone - but flying in someone’s back yard so low that a decent dog could try to catch it like a frisbee is just wrong (and after seen what prop strikes can do to a person’s face and hand, I would be livid if my dog got torn up because of some idiots drone). FAA has rules against downing an aircraft. Other than closing his drapes, I am just not sure what that person can do legally. Just curious about opinions on doing something like tying mono to tree limbs to make a personal no-fly zone in a back yard. Pilots like this one are going to ruin the hobby for all of us.

Key sentence to me is this - "Someone is flying a drone in his back yard below his privacy fence level to look into his house windows."

If a drone drops below the height of a privacy fence - they have invaded "MY" space and they surely have no VLOS either. No idea how tall the fence is, that was left out - but if in the 4 -10 range - then if the drone somehow loses signal and drops from the sky - then oh well. Too bad, so sad for Mr. Droner who should have not been where they were. They obviously KNEW what they were doing.

As mentioned, call LE and nab the drones SD card. If they show up wanting their drone - give it to them and hopefully LE will be there to discuss the issue. If LE is not there - then you have the SD Card and can see what they were "spying" on and may be able to file a complaint / lawsuit. Also copy down the Reg #'s and such as well. The more info / facts you have - then the better chance of making this "idiot" pay.

I have had neighbors call me and my POA president for flying over their house. Yet, we live in a densely wooded area and this persons house is completely surrounded by trees. Yeah, a good cowboy pilot may be able to get in and do whatever, but I don't mess with trees and fly above them unless there are large openings - which in this case would be the roof of their house. I was also about 200 feet up as well and no spying.

 

[dave canada]

what a question and why does anyone need to peep on neighbors its a weird world out there . swwat the **** drone down with a broom then when who ever owns it comes to get it just hand it over less one sd card if you think there peeping and possibly a good rap on the beek might work children