Are drones really any threat to aircraft when we consider the weights of common birds?

[Mantrain]

I was wondering about this. I fly a few different drones, from the Mini 2 to the Mavic 3. As drone pilots we need to be so cautious regrading manned aircraft which share airspace. My largest drone, the Mavic 3, certainly cannot be discounted as an object that given some rare circumstances, could do damage to an aircraft if the collision impacted in some unusual manner.

But there are literally tens of thousands of more mid size birds than there are consumer drones and birds are only thought to be an issue when flying in swarms, (or whatever the word is for large groups of birds.)

Some birds up there get as heavy as 4 Lbs., but crows are more in the weight range of the Mavic 3. however crow or hawks do not bother to check if they are flying near airports or within authorization zones, etc. They just go where they choose.

This makes me think that perhaps drones do not really pose a reasonable threat to aircraft but are more of an issue with accidental hitting objects on the ground.


post

and as for my my Mini 2, it is so much smaller than a crow or a Hawk, I have trouble thinking that it could ever pose any threat to a manned aircraft even if the pilot wanted to. Perhaps that is why they do not even need to be registered. Maybe the FAA figured that drones < 250 grams just post no threat from a collision standpoint.

There may be other security issues with cameras etc, but as for collision risks, I am wondering whether these drones risks are over rated. I know, many viewers re going to be hot under the collar, angry and agitated at my irresponsible post. so let it out.

If you are really upset about me pondering these issues, consider lobbying Congress and the FAA to initiate registering all flying birds that weigh > 249 grams. Later we can get all the birds within the USA to wear the unique identifier transponders as well and offending fowl can be dealt with to the maximum of the law.

 

[BlairAir]

Birds generally, under most scenarios have the sense to not fly into airplanes. I wish I could say the same about some drone pilots.

 

[microlinux]

Safety is mitigating risk factors you can control.

If you’d like to test your theory you could pilot a plane full of friends and family while someone flies drones into the engine intakes.

 

[slup]

The difference between a drone & a bird collision is apparently a matter of internal wing structural damage or only outside damage of the surface ... a lot to read on WWW.

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[Deleted member 103366]

Birds do not contain dense material such as batteries.
I do not know what light aircraft windscreens are made of but I wouldn't fancy testing one against a drone battery or seeing what it would do to a propellor, would you?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Birds generally, under most scenarios have the sense to not fly into airplanes.

I suppose they are pretty good at getting out of the way of other 'aircraft'.
You could think of a bird as being a pilot in charge right there in the pilots seat, and have an awareness of possible dangers around them . . . they seem to have some 'air sense' MOST of the time anyway, there are always exceptions, and we do see bird strikes on jet engines and regular prop aircraft quite often around the World.
Usually at take off or landing, and low altitudes.

What I was wondering about early this evening was paramotors, posted in sUAV Rules & Regs section earlier.
They are MUCH larger, and to my surprise I found today FAA doesn't have altitude limits on them ?
Again, a pilot in a seat on them gives decent awareness of their surroundings, but still . . .

 

[DoomMeister]

Safety is mitigating risk factors you can control.

Here within lies the gist of the whole debate.

@Mantrain , I think you are the one that needs to lobby Congress. Windscreens in planes and helicopters are not made of bullet proof plexiglass. Consider traveling on the Autobahn (no speed limit) at 120mph or more with a piece of plexiglass as a windshield and strike a solid object like a drone and have it come through along with shards of plexiglass.

Even if there was only minor damage in a collision between a drone and a manned aircraft it would have to be reported as a midair collision and the manned aircraft would have to be inspected by a certified mechanic for airworthiness. Not an inexpensive task.

Personal Opinion Alert!
I’m sorry but I am close to the point of deleting every post that brings this subject up and assigning warning points to the OP of these types of threads. This topic has been rehashed so many times that it has gotten tedious. If you want to fly, do it by the rules or don’t fly. If you want the rules changed, petition your lawmakers or elect new ones that share your views (good luck on that).

 

[Wade L.]

Personal Opinion Alert!
I’m sorry but I am close to the point of deleting every post that brings this subject up and assigning warning points to the OP of these types of threads. This topic has been rehashed so many times that it has gotten tedious. If you want to fly, do it by the rules or don’t fly. If you want the rules changed, petition your lawmakers or elect new ones that share your views (good luck on that).

You would certainly have my support. When I read the original post, my first thought was, “this has to be a kid.” Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was a 54 year old who was basically insinuating that there should be no rules with the aim of keeping drones from striking aircraft because birds exist. In my opinion, there is no room here for such nonsense, and these types of posts are well beneath the caliber of this forum. Like another moderator recently commented on a VLOS thread, these types of posts do nothing to advance the hobby/profession.

 

[Crwrek]

You would certainly have my support. When I read the original post, my first thought was, “this has to be a kid.” Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was a 54 year old who was basically insinuating that there should be no rules with the aim of keeping drones from striking aircraft because birds exist. In my opinion, there is no room here for such nonsense, and these types of posts are well beneath the caliber of this forum. Like another moderator recently commented on a VLOS thread, these types of posts do nothing to advance the hobby/profession.

In addition to flying UAVs I am an instrument rated Private Pilot…. Once smacked a moderate sized bird. About the size of a crow with the wing strut on my 182, The thud was pretty intense, Was extremely glad it didn’t hit the windscreen. A drone even the size of a Mavic mini going thru my prop and hitting the windscreen would be devastating if it happened…. Having drones equipped with ADSB will be nice, but I worry mostly about the homebuilt FPV drones that don’t have any kind of Geofencing…. Just my two cents. Fly safe and please yield to the aircraft that contain people!!

 

[Maviac]

Personal Opinion Alert!
I’m sorry but I am close to the point of deleting every post that brings this subject up and assigning warning points to the OP of these types of threads. This topic has been rehashed so many times that it has gotten tedious. If you want to fly, do it by the rules or don’t fly. If you want the rules changed, petition your lawmakers or elect new ones that share your views (good luck on that).

I would be in favor of a separate forum/topic to cover this and also every “The US is banning DJI OMG!!!!” post. So I can more easily ignore them.

 

[old man mavic]

@DoomMeister and mine as well
i was the author of the post mentioned by @Wade L.
and these posts are becoming tiresome ,and they still do nothing for the hobby

 

[Nash2017]

Ha ha maybe Plane engine developers would throw some dead drones to the engine while testing!

 

[JimWest]

You would certainly have my support. When I read the original post, my first thought was, “this has to be a kid.” Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was a 54 year old who was basically insinuating that there should be no rules with the aim of keeping drones from striking aircraft because birds exist. In my opinion, there is no room here for such nonsense, and these types of posts are well beneath the caliber of this forum. Like another moderator recently commented on a VLOS thread, these types of posts do nothing to advance the hobby/profession.

I didn't read it like that. The OP starts by saying, "As drone pilots we need to be so cautious regrading manned aircraft which share airspace." Somehow, I missed the previous discussions of this subject, so I found this exchange interesting. I'm a firm believer in following the rules, especially around other aircraft. But I've never considered what it is about drones that might make them more dangerous than similar-sized birds. Sorry if others are bored to death by this subject. You don't need to keep reading.

 

[Kilrah]

But I've never considered what it is about drones that might make them more dangerous than similar-sized birds.

As previously mentioned it's simply that nothing can be done to make the birds not fly in dangerous spaces, so just gotta deal with it. Drones however CAN be prevented from doing it, so it makes sense to deal with that controllable risk factor so that it does not add on top of the uncontrollable one.

 

[spamgnome]

I was wondering about this. I fly a few different drones, from the Mini 2 to the Mavic 3. As drone pilots we need to be so cautious regrading manned aircraft which share airspace. My largest drone, the Mavic 3, certainly cannot be discounted as an object that given some rare circumstances, could do damage to an aircraft if the collision impacted in some unusual manner.

But there are literally tens of thousands of more mid size birds than there are consumer drones and birds are only thought to be an issue when flying in swarms, (or whatever the word is for large groups of birds.)

Some birds up there get as heavy as 4 Lbs., but crows are more in the weight range of the Mavic 3. however crow or hawks do not bother to check if they are flying near airports or within authorization zones, etc. They just go where they choose.

This makes me think that perhaps drones do not really pose a reasonable threat to aircraft but are more of an issue with accidental hitting objects on the ground.


post

and as for my my Mini 2, it is so much smaller than a crow or a Hawk, I have trouble thinking that it could ever pose any threat to a manned aircraft even if the pilot wanted to. Perhaps that is why they do not even need to be registered. Maybe the FAA figured that drones < 250 grams just post no threat from a collision standpoint.

There may be other security issues with cameras etc, but as for collision risks, I am wondering whether these drones risks are over rated. I know, many viewers re going to be hot under the collar, angry and agitated at my irresponsible post. so let it out.

If you are really upset about me pondering these issues, consider lobbying Congress and the FAA to initiate registering all flying birds that weigh > 249 grams. Later we can get all the birds within the USA to wear the unique identifier transponders as well and offending fowl can be dealt with to the maximum of the

I was wondering about this. I fly a few different drones, from the Mini 2 to the Mavic 3. As drone pilots we need to be so cautious regrading manned aircraft which share airspace. My largest drone, the Mavic 3, certainly cannot be discounted as an object that given some rare circumstances, could do damage to an aircraft if the collision impacted in some unusual manner.

But there are literally tens of thousands of more mid size birds than there are consumer drones and birds are only thought to be an issue when flying in swarms, (or whatever the word is for large groups of birds.)

Some birds up there get as heavy as 4 Lbs., but crows are more in the weight range of the Mavic 3. however crow or hawks do not bother to check if they are flying near airports or within authorization zones, etc. They just go where they choose.

This makes me think that perhaps drones do not really pose a reasonable threat to aircraft but are more of an issue with accidental hitting objects on the ground.


post

and as for my my Mini 2, it is so much smaller than a crow or a Hawk, I have trouble thinking that it could ever pose any threat to a manned aircraft even if the pilot wanted to. Perhaps that is why they do not even need to be registered. Maybe the FAA figured that drones < 250 grams just post no threat from a collision standpoint.

There may be other security issues with cameras etc, but as for collision risks, I am wondering whether these drones risks are over rated. I know, many viewers re going to be hot under the collar, angry and agitated at my irresponsible post. so let it out.

If you are really upset about me pondering these issues, consider lobbying Congress and the FAA to initiate registering all flying birds that weigh > 249 grams. Later we can get all the birds within the USA to wear the unique identifier transponders as well and offending fowl can be dealt with to the maximum of the law.

On behalf of all the private pilots on this forum flying light aircraft, please do us a favor. Box up your drone and send it back to DJI. You obviously have a disregard for safety and the laws of physics.

 

[funflyer]

Birds generally, under most scenarios have the sense to not fly into airplanes. I wish I could say the same about some drone pilots.

it is not the birds flying into aircraft, it is the aircraft flying into birds. The same could be said for most all small drones like we fly.

 

[Brockrock]

I'm a fixed wing pilot as well with 6000+ hours spread between small, single engine aircraft and corporate jets. I have experienced multiple bird strikes over the years, and for the most part, the result has only been a bit of a mess on the leading edge of the wing. Birds tend to be soft and malleable, and like humans, they are mostly water, so they just splatter when they hit. Even a prop strike with a bird is typically no big issue.

A UAV would be another issue all together. A direct strike to the leading edge of the wing would very likely end in damage, and although maybe not enough to cause an uncontrolled crash, that damage could become larger during continued flight as a result of the breach caused by the UAV - even a very small one - due to high speed air passing over and through it. A UAV strike to a prop could be a very big issue. A sharp nic to a prop could cause the blade to separate in the area of the strike due to the immense weight exerted on the prop due to rotational forces - which I'm told are many thousands of pounds at RPM. This is one reason pilots carefully check prop leading edges for nics. Even a small one can turn into a fatigue failure in flight.

Lastly, there is the pilot shock factor of a plane hitting anything, be it a bird or UAV. Pilots have enough to think about, and although bird strikes are unavoidable in certain circumstances, responsible operation of a UAV can greatly avoid and even completely negate the possibility. Frankly, I'm surprised we are even debating this subject.

 

[BigAl07]

For those who "think" a drone wouldn't do any more damage than a bird of equal weight (SIGH) here's what a bird CAN do to a GA windshield:

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If you were flying that airplane or someone you loved was on board how would you feel about a drone coming crashing through the windshield . . . ????

 

[sar104]

Personal Opinion Alert!
I’m sorry but I am close to the point of deleting every post that brings this subject up and assigning warning points to the OP of these types of threads. This topic has been rehashed so many times that it has gotten tedious. If you want to fly, do it by the rules or don’t fly. If you want the rules changed, petition your lawmakers or elect new ones that share your views (good luck on that).

On the other hand it is such an important issue that it needs to get aired, somewhat regularly, if only for the benefit of new pilots. Maybe a sticky thread on the subject, with some of the definitive data and references that have been posted previously?

 

[MavicRoolzOK]

?! This is a serious question ? April Fools is 3 months away !!