Are you a Pilot or an Aviator?

[Torque]

And why do they call a trial script on an new TV show a "Pilot Program"?

And my stove, oven and furnace all have pilot lights (not visible for 3 miles however).

 

[Robert Prior]

Transport Canada calls it "sRPAS Certificate" (small Remotely Piloted Air System Certificate) trying to be totally universal, with basic and advanced levels of competency . . but still implying the are certifying "Pilots" without saying so.

At the top of mine it says "Pilot certificate" in big letters, then the next line has (in smaller letters) "Small Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (RPAS), Visual line-of-sight (VLOS)".

Below that is possible levels (with "Basic operations" checked) and some of the limitations (uncontrolled airspace, 30 m horizontal separation from people, etc.).

Issued in 2019, so maybe they've change the certificate? I'm on the road right now so can't log in to Transport Canada and check (and I didn't get any notifications to download an updated pilot certificate). I keep the certificate and my latest recency test stored in Drone Pilot Canada along with my aircraft registrations, so that's what I just checked.

 

[Cookedinlh]

And my stove, oven and furnace all have pilot lights (not visible for 3 miles however).

great point

 

[WanderLost]

I'm doing some writing on the difference between "pilot's" and "aviators" which can be quite stark if you consider newbie drone operators (Aerial Camera operators) and seasoned commercial flyers who do it for a living with jobs like Police Fire and rescue, construction survey, geo-mapping or Agriculture, mining or cinematography, for example. If were already a pilot when you started flying drone or you've grown up around aviation, it's different than getting one for your birthday or your Real Estate business and learning to fly by watching YouTube videos or on-line courses.

What do you fly and what do you consider the essential elements of a qualified drone pilot to be considered competent, safe and/or exceptional. What is your definition of "Good Airmanship"?
a. Superior Flying skills and not aggressive except in say Sport Racing (always Flight Safety first)
b. Superior Knowledge, Airspace Aeronautics, UAV systems weather drone industry
c. Systems and sensor knowledge, data management productivity tools
d. Cinematography & Videography and creative skill
e. All of the above
Love to hear your thoughts and ideas of what makes a really great Drone Pilot - hint: I'm sure there's more than one answer.

I always thought an aviator was a "senior" pilot.

 

[Cookedinlh]

The broad answer is anyone who “takes to the skies” (moves in 3rd dimension) is an aviator of sorts..so technically including not just powered aircraft but gliders, rockets flying suits parachute, no parachute ( it’s been done) controlling planes helos etc… with or without beings on board, kites balloons maybe even shot from a cannon if it’s something you do more than once…doing it only once is jus called suicide.. pilots are aviators passengers could be if they are crew and not just traveling…mind you people like to call themselves “astronauts” after only going above 100,000 ft for a few minutes but I’d be more like to refer to them as “space tourists”… many finer points to be argued but I’m focused on those who operate powered or unpowered craft with it without passengers. If it’s a career especially but also if they treat it as a serious part of their private or professional life!

 

[Felix le Chat]

I'm doing some writing on the difference between "pilot's" and "aviators" which can be quite stark if you consider newbie drone operators (Aerial Camera operators) and seasoned commercial flyers who do it for a living with jobs like Police Fire and rescue, construction survey, geo-mapping or Agriculture, mining or cinematography, for example. If were already a pilot when you started flying drone or you've grown up around aviation, it's different than getting one for your birthday or your Real Estate business and learning to fly by watching YouTube videos or on-line courses.

What do you fly and what do you consider the essential elements of a qualified drone pilot to be considered competent, safe and/or exceptional. What is your definition of "Good Airmanship"?
a. Superior Flying skills and not aggressive except in say Sport Racing (always Flight Safety first)
b. Superior Knowledge, Airspace Aeronautics, UAV systems weather drone industry
c. Systems and sensor knowledge, data management productivity tools
d. Cinematography & Videography and creative skill
e. All of the above
Love to hear your thoughts and ideas of what makes a really great Drone Pilot - hint: I'm sure there's more than one answer.

What about 'flier'? Doesn't piss the proper wiggle stick cowboys off and doesn't make anyone sound like they work in a machine shop.

 

[Cookedinlh]

I think it comes down to how secure are you in your own capabilities compared to the person your talking to. Some "pilots" get offended while others consider who they are talking to. A truly professional and competent aviator PIC Pilot or airman will consider their level of airmanship as an integral part of who he/she IS and not give the title a second thought to what people call them. . . .( it's kind of a "sully" thing.)

 

[Droning on and on...]

irregardless

Not a word!!!

Irrespective or regardless. There is no contraction of the two in the English language.

Not a big deal, but one of my pet peeves, so I signed up with the Prevent Irregardless Statements Society to help eradicate this language abuse

 

[Droning on and on...]

What's the difference between a pilot and an aviator? None. Aviators are pilots, in the plain meaning of the words. An "aviator" is no more of a pilot than a noob who's taking his first flight. A "pilot" is someone flying an aircraft (in this context), no more no less.

That's why we refer to aviators as, "experienced pilots". Well-established English language vocabulary handles this quite well.

 

[Droning on and on...]

What about 'flier'? Doesn't piss the proper wiggle stick cowboys off and doesn't make anyone sound like they work in a machine shop.

The wiggle stick cowboys can pound sand, just like all the FPV veterans who insist it ain't FPV unless you're flying rate mode.

I have no time, or tolerance for "I'm better than you" bigotry.

 

[ericole]

I agree with you sir (Ralph thompson)


The FAA looks at anyone "flying" irregardless of the equipment as a pilot. I have been around a few pilots. They get upset if you use that terminology around them -- and rightly so. In my opinion (and please, no wars here), I believe you are an operator -- irregardless of your skill set. You are certified (not license) to operate a piece of equipment that is operational in a 3D, (x, y, z axis) exterior environment. This is no different than a heavy equipment operator.

It is unfortunate that the FAA takes the viewpoint that we are pilots. My guess is that they are trying to be inclusive and trying to bring everyone into one standard regulation set. That is almost impossible due to the differences between equipment, and the derived skills needed to operate each in their respective environments.

What makes a great drone operator? Primarily, it takes awareness of the regulations you are operating under, awareness of the local laws that you are operating in, and the skills to always operate a drone professionally and safely.

In my opinion

JT Bennett

*regardless.

 

[Robert Prior]

kites balloons maybe

I'll point out that Transport Canada has a pilot license for balloon pilots.

Here's the study guide:

Study and Reference Guide—Balloon Pilot Licence including Flight Instructor Rating - TP 10087

Study and Reference Guide—Balloon Pilot Licence including Flight Instructor Rating - TP 10087

tc.canada.ca

Interestingly, my sRPAS pilot certificate is labelled as a "certificate", while manned aircraft are flown by people with pilot licenses (or permits).

General information on pilot licences and permits

General information on pilot licences and permits

tc.canada.ca

So it looks like in Canada while someone who flies manned aircraft and myself are both legally "pilots", they have a pilot license and I have a pilot certificate. So there is a wording difference after all, but it's in the name of the qualification rather than the role.

 

[Dronecation]

if it’s something you do more than once…doing it only once is jus called suicide..

Makes me wonder if all Kamikazes are pilots? Are war missile drone operators/pilots also better referred to as suicidal instead of boring ole pilots?

 

[Dronecation]

I think it comes down to how secure are you in your own capabilities compared to the person your talking to. Some "pilots" get offended while others consider who they are talking to. A truly professional and competent aviator PIC Pilot or airman will consider their level of airmanship as an integral part of who he/she IS and not give the title a second thought to what people call them. . . .( it's kind of a "sully" thing.)

Good point- Sully was a first class chap all round. Terrible how they tried to take a strip off him during the investigations.

 

[Cookedinlh]

I'll point out that Transport Canada has a pilot license for balloon pilots.

Here's the study guide:

Study and Reference Guide—Balloon Pilot Licence including Flight Instructor Rating - TP 10087

Study and Reference Guide—Balloon Pilot Licence including Flight Instructor Rating - TP 10087

tc.canada.ca

Interestingly, my sRPAS pilot certificate is labelled as a "certificate", while manned aircraft are flown by people with pilot licenses (or permits).

General information on pilot licences and permits

General information on pilot licences and permits

tc.canada.ca

So it looks like in Canada while someone who flies manned aircraft and myself are both legally "pilots", they have a pilot license and I have a pilot certificate. So there is a wording difference after all, but it's in the name of the qualification rather than the role.

Thanks Robert, got to agree with your assessment and note that within your discussion is the essential component of my observations or “thesis” you might say. General aviation, commercial pilots and their military cousins, as well as regulators and controllers have been surprised by the rapid adoption of drone technology ad proliferation of new “pilots” in their sacred domain… and for good reason perhaps but it’s obvious to me they are just being human with a prehistoric but natural fear of the “other” tribe they don’t understand. Likewise the casual new birds, with their low cost of entry and fancy autopilots are just out having fun oblivious to the easy they can navigate that 3rd dimension, while “serious” commercial users are just looking for some respect for the skills and knowledge they’ve acquired from years of study and experiences. They’ve feel they’ve earned the “pilot” title just as much as the big boys.

It’s takes time, education….. and some empathy for originals to accept “others” without treating each other as a threat. I first ran into that resistance to drones in 1977 if you can believe that …and I’m still working on it.

You’ve touched on one of those sticky points “regulations and labels”. Thanks. Your input just helped me better articulate my mission.

 

[AnzacJack]

i think the term merely needs to be expanded upon with a prefix to the pilot
A fast jet pilot
a private pilot
commercial pilot
airline pilot
RC pilot
drone pilot
UAS pilot
etc etc
all pilots, all operators and all aviators.
Ive been flying real aircraft for over 50 years and RPAS for about 20 years now and to be honest i am not offended or worried about what people call themselves. But i do know people that value their self importance and may wish to be seen as superior to others. Surely this would be the only reason for being offended

 

[Cookedinlh]

i think the term merely needs to be expanded upon with a prefix to the pilot
A fast jet pilot
a private pilot
commercial pilot
airline pilot
RC pilot
drone pilot
UAS pilot
etc etc
all pilots, all operators and all aviators.
Ive been flying real aircraft for over 50 years and RPAS for about 20 years now and to be honest i am not offended or worried about what people call themselves. But i do know people that value their self importance and may wish to be seen as superior to others. Surely this would be the only reason for being offended

 

[Cookedinlh]

Hi AnzacJack . . totally agree and thanks for responding . . you sound like my alter ego on the other side of the planet. I'm retired RCAF in Canada . . . similar to your 50 yrs, I got my Private in 1967 and my first intro to drones was 1977 when I was on the Aerospace Systems Course and we designed a sensor suite and airframe/engine combo for a long range patrol drone for northern surveillance . . we've got a lot of empty terrain and water up there and you never know who's coming if you don't keep an eye on things. You must have the same problems with all that shoreline and open ocean to deal with. Say, I've always been meaning to ask a real "Azzie" . . when you're way down there "DanUnda" as they say . . .on the bottom of the plant with your feet on the ground . . . doesn't the blood all rush to your head?
Love to swap stories someday. Cheers

 

[Dronecation]

i think the term merely needs to be expanded upon with a prefix to the pilot
A fast jet pilot
a private pilot
commercial pilot
airline pilot
RC pilot
drone pilot
UAS pilot
etc etc
all pilots, all operators and all aviators.
Ive been flying real aircraft for over 50 years and RPAS for about 20 years now and to be honest i am not offended or worried about what people call themselves. But i do know people that value their self importance and may wish to be seen as superior to others. Surely this would be the only reason for being offended

"i think the term merely needs to be expanded upon with a prefix to the pilot
A fast jet pilot
a private pilot
commercial pilot
airline pilot
RC pilot
drone pilot
UAS pilot
etc etc"

I wholeheartedly agree!

" But i do know people that value their self importance and may wish to be seen as superior to others. Surely this would be the only reason for being offended"

Meh....I disagree!!

 

[Droning on and on...]

There was (and maybe still is?) a similar sort of "real diver" sort of snottyness in the SCUBA community 25 years ago when I was an active YMCA Instructor. PADI certified divers were considered not "real" by the YMCA and NAUI divers. I never liked this.

While it's true the PADI program was far less rigorous and easier, PADI divers were SCUBA divers every bit as much as the rest of us – they strapped an air tank on their back and breathed through a regulator too.

They were taught more restrictions (don't exceed 60ft, for example), and wouldn't be doing any technical diving involving decompression stops, etc., but that didn't make their cruising 20-30ft deep reefs any less SCUBA than grabbing spiny lobster at 100ft (oh the memories!).

I have no idea if the culture's still like that... Haven't been under for 15 years.