I think there's broad agreement there are ways to fix it in production, but wouldn't you rather be able to have it come out of the camera smooth?
At the risk of upsetting some people......
- Thread starter Peregrine
- Start date
I think there's broad agreement there are ways to fix it in production, but wouldn't you rather be able to have it come out of the camera smooth?
John Locke
Well-Known Member
I've seen this problem in my videos too. With a long search, I discovered it was a setting in my editor that messed things up. Long story, below.
Summary:
All of my M2Z video is recorded at [email protected]. When I rendered it, it was rendered at 4K@24FPS, which was the problem. Over a couple of months I discovered this wasn't an oversight by me, it's a bug in my editor application that screws up the settings, but only OCCASIONALLY!
Story:
I use Resolve 16 to edit my video. Every time I load media into the media pool, the application will ask, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings", which I always say YES to. I don't know why it always asks me this, because all of my M2Z video is [email protected], I never capture anything else, and that's what I always render with, [email protected]. But each time I always have to check the box YES, to match the incoming video settings. However, for some reason, I learn (the hard way) that sometimes when I export after editing, it renders at 24FPS, to my surprise, causing the jitters like the OP has experienced. It shows up most mostly during a pan, which is very annoying. I think what's happening is the render operation is removing frames to equate 24FPS, causing the jitter.
I discovered this by looking at the original source video details, using windows explorer. Then I compared the same details to the final edited rendered video. That's when I discovered the issue, 29.97 source vs 24FPS rendered. Interestingly enough, and very frustrating, Resolve WOULDN'T let me re-export the same edits at 29.97FPS !! I spent hours on the edits, and it's now trash! This is a major bug. The menu for FPS option for rendering didn't offer a 29.97FPS. What? Can't be. No way!! YES, I was screwed.
I took the same source files and started all over. But first I made a quick test clip with sound track added like normal, which took about 3 minutes. Like normal, when I loaded the media into the media edit pool the app asked me, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings", I SAID YES, like always. For the test I used a pan scene that was easy to see the jitter. When I rendered it, it didn't have the jitter, it looked fine. The test rendered version was correctly rendered at 29.97. I was so relieved, that I found the issue. I simply concluded I screwed up somehow when it asked the question, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings." After I completely edited the SAME SOURCE video again, it rendered correctly and the jitter was GONE. Hallelujah! Some of you may have seen my Monument Valley video that looked like crap initially due to the induced jitter, and later, after I found the problem, I updated it with a good version.
So, I learned a lesson with Resolve, so I thought. I thought it was my mistake somehow. $h%t happens I thought, I'm human, I can make a mistake sometimes. After a couple more videos, using same settings ([email protected]), ALWAYS making sure I check the box "YES", it happened again, the SAME problem, after spending hours editing clips. And.....AGAIN, it wouldn't let me redo the render at the needed 29.97 FPS. Crap! The only solution was to REDO THE EDIT AGAIN! Now I'm getting really pissed at Resolve, however there is no support on the free version of Resolve (things go unresolved). So today I have a new routine. Before I started a big edit job, I always render a short clip first. This takes about 5-10 minutes. If it renders at 29.97, I know I'm good, and I can safely continue with my large multi-hour edit, without worry of rendering at 24FPS with no redo render options.
I like Resolve, but it has a big flaw. I used PP for about last 4yrs, but recently switched, because Resolve handles 4K great, with proxies, and it's free. However I've learned nothing is free. I've paid the price in frustration.
Summary:
All of my M2Z video is recorded at [email protected]. When I rendered it, it was rendered at 4K@24FPS, which was the problem. Over a couple of months I discovered this wasn't an oversight by me, it's a bug in my editor application that screws up the settings, but only OCCASIONALLY!
Story:
I use Resolve 16 to edit my video. Every time I load media into the media pool, the application will ask, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings", which I always say YES to. I don't know why it always asks me this, because all of my M2Z video is [email protected], I never capture anything else, and that's what I always render with, [email protected]. But each time I always have to check the box YES, to match the incoming video settings. However, for some reason, I learn (the hard way) that sometimes when I export after editing, it renders at 24FPS, to my surprise, causing the jitters like the OP has experienced. It shows up most mostly during a pan, which is very annoying. I think what's happening is the render operation is removing frames to equate 24FPS, causing the jitter.
I discovered this by looking at the original source video details, using windows explorer. Then I compared the same details to the final edited rendered video. That's when I discovered the issue, 29.97 source vs 24FPS rendered. Interestingly enough, and very frustrating, Resolve WOULDN'T let me re-export the same edits at 29.97FPS !! I spent hours on the edits, and it's now trash! This is a major bug. The menu for FPS option for rendering didn't offer a 29.97FPS. What? Can't be. No way!! YES, I was screwed.
I took the same source files and started all over. But first I made a quick test clip with sound track added like normal, which took about 3 minutes. Like normal, when I loaded the media into the media edit pool the app asked me, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings", I SAID YES, like always. For the test I used a pan scene that was easy to see the jitter. When I rendered it, it didn't have the jitter, it looked fine. The test rendered version was correctly rendered at 29.97. I was so relieved, that I found the issue. I simply concluded I screwed up somehow when it asked the question, "The media is a different resolution and frame rate than the last edit. Do you want to match the incoming video settings." After I completely edited the SAME SOURCE video again, it rendered correctly and the jitter was GONE. Hallelujah! Some of you may have seen my Monument Valley video that looked like crap initially due to the induced jitter, and later, after I found the problem, I updated it with a good version.
So, I learned a lesson with Resolve, so I thought. I thought it was my mistake somehow. $h%t happens I thought, I'm human, I can make a mistake sometimes. After a couple more videos, using same settings ([email protected]), ALWAYS making sure I check the box "YES", it happened again, the SAME problem, after spending hours editing clips. And.....AGAIN, it wouldn't let me redo the render at the needed 29.97 FPS. Crap! The only solution was to REDO THE EDIT AGAIN! Now I'm getting really pissed at Resolve, however there is no support on the free version of Resolve (things go unresolved). So today I have a new routine. Before I started a big edit job, I always render a short clip first. This takes about 5-10 minutes. If it renders at 29.97, I know I'm good, and I can safely continue with my large multi-hour edit, without worry of rendering at 24FPS with no redo render options.
I like Resolve, but it has a big flaw. I used PP for about last 4yrs, but recently switched, because Resolve handles 4K great, with proxies, and it's free. However I've learned nothing is free. I've paid the price in frustration.
There's been a lot of good info here, especially where you can't use you're video feed to your controller to determine if a shot is smooth or not as you're not only getting a reduced resolution version, but it's over a radio signal.. So don't use that to compare.
Then you have to remember that the video is 100mps on the M2P which will require a really good SD card. You'll want as fast an SD card as possible or your quality WILL suffer and cause some jitter and frame drops etc...
Most of it though, especially the videos I've seen posted here are definitely FPS and Frame rate mismatches when playing and rendering.
Another thing I've found, is that while most people say that you should use ND filters to get your shutter speed to 60 (or 50) fps for that 'cinematic' and natural motion blur. You don't really have to unless your capturing fast motion (like someone doing jumping jacks or a car zooming past you). We drone pilots tend to make slower, more stable movements. So using a high ND filter to get the fps to 60 introduces more blur than necessary imo.
It also depends on what you're purpose is. I do a lot of commercial development work where you want to see your subject as clearly as possible while flying, so I use a 4ND and keep my shutter speed at a number that's evenly divisable by 30 (which usually is 1/240 or 1/360). This give me crisp clear shots of the subject while flying around it and no jerky frame rate issues. I also use a high speed sd card. My video is silky smooth.
Then you have to remember that the video is 100mps on the M2P which will require a really good SD card. You'll want as fast an SD card as possible or your quality WILL suffer and cause some jitter and frame drops etc...
Most of it though, especially the videos I've seen posted here are definitely FPS and Frame rate mismatches when playing and rendering.
Another thing I've found, is that while most people say that you should use ND filters to get your shutter speed to 60 (or 50) fps for that 'cinematic' and natural motion blur. You don't really have to unless your capturing fast motion (like someone doing jumping jacks or a car zooming past you). We drone pilots tend to make slower, more stable movements. So using a high ND filter to get the fps to 60 introduces more blur than necessary imo.
It also depends on what you're purpose is. I do a lot of commercial development work where you want to see your subject as clearly as possible while flying, so I use a 4ND and keep my shutter speed at a number that's evenly divisable by 30 (which usually is 1/240 or 1/360). This give me crisp clear shots of the subject while flying around it and no jerky frame rate issues. I also use a high speed sd card. My video is silky smooth.
Im glad someone finally mentioned a good sd card. I was having a lot of issues with jittery footage. I did a lot of research as well and it wasn’t until I found an article on the importance of a good sd card did things start to change. This is the best article I came across which helped me a lot: Best Memory Cards DJI Mavic 2 Pro / Zoom | Alik Griffin
In my experience any product I’ve ever seen with “Pro” in the name is definitely not actually professional equipment. Lawnmowers, power washers, chainsaws, Drones etc. They will make a product that’s just a hair above average consumer grade, give you a few cheapened up features that the real pro equipment has and stick their “Pro” sticker on it.
Flynz
Well-Known Member
Often people get poor pans due to shutter speed not matching frame rate. But at 25fps and using the ND filters to manage the shutter speed to 1/50th you should see smooth results. Perhaps the MP2 photo firmware is not what its cracked up to be.
Looking at a couple of the segments of video there was definitely signs of the impacts of flight. These clever little robots are very small, very light and constantly make adjustments as they fly. Get your MP2 to hover at eye level a couple of metres away for a couple of minutes and you will see the variability. Also there is more wind around than you might perceive standing on the ground. And it swirls around objects. The cleanest pan shots will be on a still days, flying away from objects and with the subject a long way away. Start getting closer and the flight adjustments turn up in the video. This is particularly true when flying in a curve. It is very hard to be smooth.
If you are comparing the MP with the MP2 are you comparing the same type of shots in identical circumstances.
Looking at a couple of the segments of video there was definitely signs of the impacts of flight. These clever little robots are very small, very light and constantly make adjustments as they fly. Get your MP2 to hover at eye level a couple of metres away for a couple of minutes and you will see the variability. Also there is more wind around than you might perceive standing on the ground. And it swirls around objects. The cleanest pan shots will be on a still days, flying away from objects and with the subject a long way away. Start getting closer and the flight adjustments turn up in the video. This is particularly true when flying in a curve. It is very hard to be smooth.
If you are comparing the MP with the MP2 are you comparing the same type of shots in identical circumstances.
Flynz
Well-Known Member
baddog
Well-Known Member
Using a Mavic 2 Pro, capturing 4K video, shot in H.265 codec, is a huge undertaking in post. There is an enormous amount of data in H.265 as compared to H.264 (codec used on original Mavic Pro). In post production software, even on really fast computers with high end GPUs will struggle at time with H.265 footage. To get around this I use proxy video, it is simply part of my work flow now. You should use proxy video for doing your framing, cuts, transitions, etc...then once everything is edited the way you want the final footage to look, you can export and most of the popular software packages out there will use the high end, h.265 footage instead of the proxy footage. Adobe premiere or Final Cut Pro do it automatically.
just go to Youtube and search on "Proxy Video post production"
Then you need to make sure your final output files, frame rate, matches your original video frame rate. You don't want to capture at 30 fps and then render out to 24 fps. This will force every 5th frame of video to be dropped, so it can squeeze in 30 frames per second of footage into 24 frames per second of output video.
Hope this helps
As others may have said:
A) Are you using/have you/did they use filters? These can make a huge difference to smoothness
B) What was the frame rate. 60fps usually gives fairly smooth video, but not all drones are capable of that at higher resolutions.
C) Was the lighting bright/dull? Brighter usully results in smoother looking video.
D) What SD card was being used to record the video. Personally in my MA I use only Sandisk Extreme (Class 10 U3 V30 A2 App) cards which are capable of 160MB/s . More than enough for the MA's 100MB/s maximum. If the card is not capable of high write speeds, the data will be written spuriously and may be missing frames. Some drones will actually tell you the card isn't up to scratch or limit you to 1080.
E) The computer on which the video has been edited/processed may have dropped frames when compiling the video because it did not have enough processing power to compile all frames. Most modern PC's (AMD Ryzen 5 series and up, Intel i5 and up) and a half decent graphics card from either Nvidia or AMD should get you there. (I use an AMD Ryzen 5 2600X with an Nvidia GTX1660Ti which processes a video in around 1/2 or better viewing time - so a 6 minute video takes about 3 minutes to process in Filmora, dependent on cuts/titles/SFX etc) Anyway, the end result will be choppy video if your PC is not up to the task.
F) YT and most other platforms do some funky compression which means that most videos don't have the viewing video quality they were neccessarily uploaded with. Personally, I always upload at 4K but I don't own a 4K monitor and most of my viewers watch my video on mobiles and tablets in 1920x1080 format. But I prefer the better quality for those that can and I have the internet bandwidth to be able to. (I also don't see any point in having a 4K drone and filming in 1080!!)
G) Last on MY list is that smoothness can also depend on what the viewer is watching the video on. A crappy old mobile with poor Wifi/4G won't display as great a video as a Samsung S20 with Wifi or a decent 4G connection.
It's not by any means an extensive exhaustive list but I think I covered most obvious things that can affect smoothness of video, both viewed and created.
Fly safe!
A) Are you using/have you/did they use filters? These can make a huge difference to smoothness
B) What was the frame rate. 60fps usually gives fairly smooth video, but not all drones are capable of that at higher resolutions.
C) Was the lighting bright/dull? Brighter usully results in smoother looking video.
D) What SD card was being used to record the video. Personally in my MA I use only Sandisk Extreme (Class 10 U3 V30 A2 App) cards which are capable of 160MB/s . More than enough for the MA's 100MB/s maximum. If the card is not capable of high write speeds, the data will be written spuriously and may be missing frames. Some drones will actually tell you the card isn't up to scratch or limit you to 1080.
E) The computer on which the video has been edited/processed may have dropped frames when compiling the video because it did not have enough processing power to compile all frames. Most modern PC's (AMD Ryzen 5 series and up, Intel i5 and up) and a half decent graphics card from either Nvidia or AMD should get you there. (I use an AMD Ryzen 5 2600X with an Nvidia GTX1660Ti which processes a video in around 1/2 or better viewing time - so a 6 minute video takes about 3 minutes to process in Filmora, dependent on cuts/titles/SFX etc) Anyway, the end result will be choppy video if your PC is not up to the task.
F) YT and most other platforms do some funky compression which means that most videos don't have the viewing video quality they were neccessarily uploaded with. Personally, I always upload at 4K but I don't own a 4K monitor and most of my viewers watch my video on mobiles and tablets in 1920x1080 format. But I prefer the better quality for those that can and I have the internet bandwidth to be able to. (I also don't see any point in having a 4K drone and filming in 1080!!)
G) Last on MY list is that smoothness can also depend on what the viewer is watching the video on. A crappy old mobile with poor Wifi/4G won't display as great a video as a Samsung S20 with Wifi or a decent 4G connection.
It's not by any means an extensive exhaustive list but I think I covered most obvious things that can affect smoothness of video, both viewed and created.
Fly safe!
Cheers TwoCalf I was actually in Kalgoorlie which is where I wanted to do some filming. But the SuperPit, which is a massive open pit gold mine, is within 5km of the airport and is therefore in a no fly zone so I was unable to get any footage at al of it. But if you are interested I did do some filming of other areas in Kalgoorlie where the tailing dumps are. I never got around to editing the video to make it suitable to share but happy to do so if you are keen to take a look?
Nosebump
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry, but the video is absolutely stunning, and I don’t see the problem that you’re referring to. When you compare the price of the MP2 to, say, the price of a professional camera, the results that are generated are exceptional.
But if you want to compare to a professional drone, where you have a separate pilot and photographer, each with their own task, and using a camera that costs more than an entire MP2, then you can expect better results.
I still fly my MP and am pleased with the results. Before the advent of drones, I would have to go up in the plane or chopper to capture aerials (-Have you ever tried to fly and take pictures at the same time?!). The MP and MP2 are light years ahead of those fumbling days.
Aaron, yes that would be great, I'd love to see some clips of that area! I haven't been to the Super Pit but a number of my peers have worked on that deposit and I've seen numerous aerial stills of the pit. One of the challenges in that particular open pit mine was accounting for voluminous historic underground mining and open voids that could easily gooble up a blast hole rig or haul truck!
Im sure you have already done this but have you tried all of the different settings? like tripod mode etc..? i havent had any troubles with jerky video unless it was because of my flight causing this to happen! I.E, moving the controllers to quickly!! If you have, have you contacted DJI about it? Im just wondering,,,,, I have the Mavic Pro, the P4 and the P4P, I dont have a need for the minis myself, but in reality the smaller the drone the more app they are for jerky movement in my experiance!
Four pages of comments and I haven't seen one that was wrong. I still use the original Mavic. One thing I want to complain about is me. I watched youtube videos that said make the settings like this and make the settings like that. I have changed the settings a lot. Now I'm unhappy with the speed of the yaw. She swigs around fast like a gun turret. It looks very unnatural. I've screwed stuff up with my editor. I tried to render my videos to higher qualities than they actually were. That makes it stutter. Nowadayz, If I see stutter I dial it down. The thing I never liked about my Mavic was all the settings and remembering to focus. Now I have my Skydio. It's more like my automatic cameras. It takes me out of the equation, so it looks awesome.
John Locke
Well-Known Member
Rendering at a different FPS than the original captured M.264 file is what causes a jitter effect in YouTube. You cannot render at a different FPS than the drone captures, and expect good results. You have to know how to control the FPS rate when rendering to match the original FPS captured by the drone (typically 29.97 or 30FPS with 4K). The FPS of a video file can be verified in the file properties > details that shows the FPS you recorded, in case you forget what you did, or doubt what the drone did. If you match the FPS, captured vs. render, you're golden.
Super high speed jitters is the result of not using a filter to induce some blur, typically exhibited in pans which the pilot executes at a pan speed that's too fast. Experimenting with filters is a must if you're not currently using ND16 on bright days, ND32 in super bright situations like in Hawaii, or snow scenes. That's how to mitigate exposure jitters.
Usually it's down to a few simple things.
- Ensure you memory card is capable of writing at the 100Mbps speed the sensor can provide. (Personally I use "Sandisk Extreme with A2 App Performance, Up to 160 MB/s, Class 10, UHS-I, U3, V30" from Amazon. The Ultra's are pretty good too.)
- Match your FPS to your shutter speed. If your FPS is 30, then your shutter speed should be AT LEAST 1/60 second. This is the bare minimum you should look for, or a multiple of the 30 (e.g. 1/90, 1/120, 1/180, 1/240 etc so it's sync'd)
- The next thing is ensuring the system you process/render your video on can maintain at least the FPS you are filming at whilst rendering (Hardware encoding makes rendering sooo much quicker on a recent-ish GPU). Try a GTX 1660Ti or above ideally. APU's (built-in graphics on the main chip, like on some laptops) are not best suited to rendering video so it's probably best to upgrade if that's the case. I don't have a clue about Apple Mac's.
- Use ND filters. This can make a huge difference to the perceived smoothness (on the eye).
- Control your flight and any turns with a fine finesse, or if possible use a preset. (I mostly always fly manual, but it's your choice and your drone!)
I apologise if others have already listed these things or you've tried them, but I've tried to do it all in one post and in as simple a format as possible to understand for you and any others that come across this thread.
pinballwiz86
Well-Known Member
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