At the risk of upsetting some people......

[Peregrine]

Are you recording in H264 or H265?

H264

 

[Peregrine]

My iPad is nearly dead. I shall return to this thread later with some charge

 

[Thomas B]

That footage actually looked smooth. I’m not getting anywhere near that irrespective of ground or panning speed.

That should pretty much eliminate your playback device as the problem then. Problem must lie in image settings for the drone or post processing.

 

[rehkram]

Could it be related to the frame rate selected? As I understand it for smooth, 'cinematic' shots you want to be shooting at 24/25 frames per second. It seems counter-intuitive but a slower frame rate will yield a smooth 'motion blur' that is similar to how our eyes see movement, particularly in the bottom half of the frame at low altitude. Higher frame rates capture more detail, probably great for scientific / SAR / technical work but it looks jerky on playback. I'll try and find the youtube vid that I got this from.

 

[Greekislandlover]

I have a M2Zoom, and my first attempts did give me a lot of jerky footage. Yes, it's a case of learning to fly it smoothly, but I found out that depending on what I was using to edit the footage made a big difference.

For example, if I was editing in Filmora or Adobe Premiere Pro if you try and render at a shutter speed it wasn't recorded in then jerkiness would happen. Also, the settings of the render can't be above what you are trying to show it on. Example, yes, it could render in very high bit rates per second, but the PC I was playing it back on didn't have a graphics card that would work with that render depth, and my Plex server just laughed when I wanted to transcode it.

I have to say I've been very pleased with the smoothness produced by my Mavic 2 Zoom. I use the ND filters to get the shutter speed correct, Adobe Premiere Pro makes proxies to edit with and does the final render at the same frame rate as recorded. The bits per second of the final render are set to give a good quality picture on a 4K tv, but not so high that it can't play.

Something I did with my M2Z. I think it's smooth - especially on a 4K TV.

 

[E90RAW]

The problems I’m seeing are not gimbal related. They are not created by the turbulent air, or anything like that. They are produced by the hardware being unable to render what it is capturing. The faster the craft goes, the more evident the problem seems to become. But it is evident with any amount of motion.

I watched this video earlier,

and it gives an extreme example of the problem I’m referring to at 1:59, a low level skim-over of some plants. But, if you watch the video in it’s entirety, the problem manifests itself, to a lesser degree, through nearly every shot. And the video has everything else going for it - stunning locations, incredible subject matter, very well crafted shots, wonderful colour, pin-sharp focus. In fact, the person did an incredible job, but was let down by the equipment. And, as I said before, my old MP didn’t do this.

WOW...you're kidding, right? Thats a great video. You want to see skips and jumps view my video (

). I think people just edit out what they don't like. My standards where pretty low as I dont have the computer I need to post process and I just wanted to save the video, but mine looks like it was done by a kindergartner compared to yours.

 

[E90RAW]

I have a M2Zoom, and my first attempts did give me a lot of jerky footage. Yes, it's a case of learning to fly it smoothly, but I found out that depending on what I was using to edit the footage made a big difference.

For example, if I was editing in Filmora or Adobe Premiere Pro if you try and render at a shutter speed it wasn't recorded in then jerkiness would happen. Also, the settings of the render can't be above what you are trying to show it on. Example, yes, it could render in very high bit rates per second, but the PC I was playing it back on didn't have a graphics card that would work with that render depth, and my Plex server just laughed when I wanted to transcode it.

I have to say I've been very pleased with the smoothness produced by my Mavic 2 Zoom. I use the ND filters to get the shutter speed correct, Adobe Premiere Pro makes proxies to edit with and does the final render at the same frame rate as recorded. The bits per second of the final render are set to give a good quality picture on a 4K tv, but not so high that it can't play.

Something I did with my M2Z. I think it's smooth - especially on a 4K TV.

Nicely done

 

[Peregrine]

Could it be related to the frame rate selected? As I understand it for smooth, 'cinematic' shots you want to be shooting at 24/25 frames per second. It seems counter-intuitive but a slower frame rate will yield a smooth 'motion blur' that is similar to how our eyes see movement, particularly in the bottom half of the frame at low altitude. Higher frame rates capture more detail, probably great for scientific / SAR / technical work but it looks jerky on playback. I'll try and find the youtube vid that I got this from.

Thanks, but see post #11

 

[rehkram]

Thanks, but see post #11

Whoops sorry, missed that.

 

[Jet skier]

For a point of reference, this is an old video of mine, shot on the old, Mavic Pro. It’s not great, by a long shot, but it exhibits the degree of smoothness that I cannot come close to with the M2.

The only videos I’ve seen that seem glassy-smooth shot on an M2 have been low-light affairs, strangely enough.

I really don’t see any Herky jerky movements however I do see stuttering which is why I switched to 48 frames per second not too long ago to try to get rid of that otherwise it look beautiful

 

[DerekD]

The problems I’m seeing are not gimbal related. They are not created by the turbulent air, or anything like that. They are produced by the hardware being unable to render what it is capturing. The faster the craft goes, the more evident the problem seems to become. But it is evident with any amount of motion.

I watched this video earlier,

and it gives an extreme example of the problem I’m referring to at 1:59, a low level skim-over of some plants. But, if you watch the video in it’s entirety, the problem manifests itself, to a lesser degree, through nearly every shot. And the video has everything else going for it - stunning locations, incredible subject matter, very well crafted shots, wonderful colour, pin-sharp focus. In fact, the person did an incredible job, but was let down by the equipment. And, as I said before, my old MP didn’t do this.

Thanks for this post, I see what you mean in this video. I had the Mavic platinum taken back by the supplier and refunded because 1 of the batteries supplied was dead. I was thinking of getting the Mavic pro 2 after lockdown for the Hasselblad camera, but after your post, I think the Mavic Pro Platinum fly more combo is perhaps best after all, particularly for the much lower price! By the way, I only wanted the battery replaced, the supplier just refunded and sent the drone back to manufacturer without any recourse.

 

[Dave Maine]

You are jumping too quickly to a conclusion for where the problem lies. Using YouTube to make quality judgements doesn’t work. YouTube re codes every last bit of footage that you see. In addition, the entire streaming process introduces issues. Lastly, the performance of the playback system itself - your pc or tablet has major impacts as well.

Without benchmarking the entire reproduction chain, you will have difficulty finding the real problem. On my main editing system which will handle 8k ProRes footage connected through a 160 Mb internet connection, most drone footage is silky smooth with no jitter.

 

[JoeBoy]

Hi @Peregrine I showed this to my son who is a professional video editor. There are several suggestions for this:

1. The video is shot at 60fps and everything on Youtube is 30fps. The Namibia video was specifically uploaded at 30fps and this could explain the stuttering effect. You might notice that the subject matter where it is particularly noticeable is very noisy as a subject (the plants). This can cause problems for the encoder which might explain it. The stuttering is much less evident in that shot in the sky rather than looking at the plants as it is less 'noisy' there.

2. Where you are shooting a moving image into the sun, the prop shadows could be causing a similar effect where the encoder on the MP2 might be trying to compensate for the flicker by repeating portions of the previous frame thereby essentially lowering the visual playback rate in that area of the screen. Shooting the same scene from a different angle may alleviate this.

So what you are seeing in your controller could be a completely different causal effect for the same thing that you are seeing in some YouTube videos although the resulting judder looks the same.

He did say that the above is by no means a definitive explanation and as you say, it could be a hardware fault in the MP2. Personally I think this is unlikely as I am not seeing this stutter on my videos in general with my MP2 but then I am not shooting in brightest Namibia sunlight and I consistently shoot with ND filters on my MP2.

The definite conclusion we can come to is that this is not a resolution problem, but 99% juddery digital video is an encoding or frame rate interpolation problem. He signed off by saying that this would need some experimentation in the field to come to real conclusions. With test shooting in many different conditions.

 

[JoeBoy]

Could it be related to the frame rate selected? As I understand it for smooth, 'cinematic' shots you want to be shooting at 24/25 frames per second. It seems counter-intuitive but a slower frame rate will yield a smooth 'motion blur' that is similar to how our eyes see movement, particularly in the bottom half of the frame at low altitude. Higher frame rates capture more detail, probably great for scientific / SAR / technical work but it looks jerky on playback. I'll try and find the youtube vid that I got this from.

The reason to shoot 24/25 fps relates more to shooting for TV in studios. AC power is 60hz in USA and 50hz in Europe, therefore you should film at precisely half the frame rate for that region to avoid stutter as the lights are flickering at those rates (we can't see them, but they are). Professional TV companies will give you the option of 29.97 or 30 fps so it looks exactly right.

What the OP is talking about is definitely a different issue as you don't have these problems shooting outside in sunlight with a drone.

 

[Johnmcl7]

Thanks for this post, I see what you mean in this video. I had the Mavic platinum taken back by the supplier and refunded because 1 of the batteries supplied was dead. I was thinking of getting the Mavic pro 2 after lockdown for the Hasselblad camera, but after your post, I think the Mavic Pro Platinum fly more combo is perhaps best after all, particularly for the much lower price! By the way, I only wanted the battery replaced, the supplier just refunded and sent the drone back to manufacturer without any recourse.

I wouldn't be so hasty to write off the Mavic 2 line instead have a good look at footage and decide if it's suitable for you or not. I had the original Mavic Pro and upgraded to the Mavic 2 Pro shortly after launch which I was concerned I would regret as it's a lot of money not long after the first Mavic however I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. The larger sensor means it has far better dynamic range and lower noise for stills plus there's a lot of smaller improvements I appreciate as well with the wider range of avoidance sensors, onboard flash in case you forget your sd card, the one piece gimbal cover and the better flight time.

I'm absolutely not being 'wilfully ignorant' as the OP suggests on the previous page, I still have my original Mavic as a backup and if it was performing better for me than the Mavic 2 Pro I wouldn't hesitate to use it, why on earth would anyone not do the same and carry on pretending otherwise?

 

[stiller_paul]

..... is the Mavic 2 range trying to punch above it’s weight? Let me explain: I recently posted a thread concerning jerky footage. I wanted to know what I was doing wrong, and what I could do to improve things. I had a few very helpful suggestions. But nothing really made any difference to the results I was getting.

So, I turned to YouTube, as one does. I have watched a myriad of videos, many from established drone specialists. And most offering many handy hints and tips. But I have to say that I came away extremely disappointed. Whilst there are some wonderful compositions, and subject matter, and pin-sharp images, often well colour-graded. Some superb talent out there, offering some incredible creativity. But virtually every film I watched was less than smooth.

Yes,, even amongst the “Pros” I am still looking at jerky footage for the vast majority of footage out there. I’m not talking about clumsy finger-work, I’m talking about the hardware struggling to keep up with what’s being asked of it. I never had the problem with the original MP.

And no-one seems to consider it an issue. Is everyone so used to it that they no longer see it? I could link a multitude of videos to look at, but I don’t want to appear disrespectful of people’s work. As I said, most of it is beautifully composed, and shot with great technique. But the underlying problems are ruining things.

I cannot post anything of mine at present, because I can capture very little due to the lockdown currently in place. It’s just little hops above the house, a bit of a pan round and back again.

I am going to try recording at 2.7k and see if this brings about the smoothness that is so badly lacking. But that is not really the solution I was hoping for, having shelled out a pretty heavy sum for the benefits of 4k.

If I have come across as being unappreciative of people’s talent that couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m not having a pop at anyone at all. I am in awe of what folk are capable of. But I’m certainly not in awe of the M2 range at present. Sure, it has many tricks up it’s sleeve, but smoothness of footage has to be the cornerstone of everything else, surely?

The thing I noticed with mine is that the video hat comes out of the drone is smooth. It only gets jerky when I put it through the editor. Fortunately, I don't care.

 

[Dave Maine]

Totally agree

 

[Archon<>Procyon]

Hey I’m pretty sure you are correct with it being a software issue. I came to this conclusion when I considered upgrading to the 2 but I kept noticing what seemed to me to be the transmitter signal getting some interference, but at close range. Fortunately I have a friend that just purchased an MP2 and he asked me for some help in setting it up and teaching him to fly because it was his first real hobby quad. It was on the very first flight that I noticed this distortion ( best way I can explain it ) so we relocated to my go to spot because it’s absolute and complete lack of anything electromagnetic, no power lines, towers, not even an occasional car driving by with a cell phone signal that could briefly send a glitch. But the problems persisted. This thing flew like a champ there’s no doubt about it. Now the camera footage is not what I would consider lackluster, but it’s not even close to as smooth or clear as my Pro Platinum. I’m left feeling guilty because I did everything in my power to convince him that’s the model that would work best for his needs he’s a big time train enthusiast and has a great location to film trains. He’s definitely disappointed but he’s still having fun and getting some really cool footage. I let him use my Platinum Pro and after messing with the settings he was able to capture some truly awesome collages. Once he gets the copyrights worked out and makes a deal with the railroad, I’ll be able to share and show the differences. Some will probably not be surprised and others will undoubtedly question the validity of this, simply because the images are not even comparable. I’ll tell you now I was quite shocked to see the shortcomings of what’s supposed to be a vastly improved camera on the MP2...

 

[sar104]

Hey I’m pretty sure you are correct with it being a software issue. I came to this conclusion when I considered upgrading to the 2 but I kept noticing what seemed to me to be the transmitter signal getting some interference, but at close range. Fortunately I have a friend that just purchased an MP2 and he asked me for some help in setting it up and teaching him to fly because it was his first real hobby quad. It was on the very first flight that I noticed this distortion ( best way I can explain it ) so we relocated to my go to spot because it’s absolute and complete lack of anything electromagnetic, no power lines, towers, not even an occasional car driving by with a cell phone signal that could briefly send a glitch. But the problems persisted. This thing flew like a champ there’s no doubt about it. Now the camera footage is not what I would consider lackluster, but it’s not even close to as smooth or clear as my Pro Platinum. I’m left feeling guilty because I did everything in my power to convince him that’s the model that would work best for his needs he’s a big time train enthusiast and has a great location to film trains. He’s definitely disappointed but he’s still having fun and getting some really cool footage. I let him use my Platinum Pro and after messing with the settings he was able to capture some truly awesome collages. Once he gets the copyrights worked out and makes a deal with the railroad, I’ll be able to share and show the differences. Some will probably not be surprised and others will undoubtedly question the validity of this, simply because the images are not even comparable. I’ll tell you now I was quite shocked to see the shortcomings of what’s supposed to be a vastly improved camera on the MP2...

Or perhaps that M2P is faulty, rather than being representative of all the other M2Ps out there that don't do any of those things and produce exceptional video and still images.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Hi @Peregrine I showed this to my son who is a professional video editor. There are several suggestions for this:

1. The video is shot at 60fps and everything on Youtube is 30fps. The Namibia video was specifically uploaded at 30fps and this could explain the stuttering effect. You might notice that the subject matter where it is particularly noticeable is very noisy as a subject (the plants). This can cause problems for the encoder which might explain it. The stuttering is much less evident in that shot in the sky rather than looking at the plants as it is less 'noisy' there.

2. Where you are shooting a moving image into the sun, the prop shadows could be causing a similar effect where the encoder on the MP2 might be trying to compensate for the flicker by repeating portions of the previous frame thereby essentially lowering the visual playback rate in that area of the screen. Shooting the same scene from a different angle may alleviate this.

So what you are seeing in your controller could be a completely different causal effect for the same thing that you are seeing in some YouTube videos although the resulting judder looks the same.

He did say that the above is by no means a definitive explanation and as you say, it could be a hardware fault in the MP2. Personally I think this is unlikely as I am not seeing this stutter on my videos in general with my MP2 but then I am not shooting in brightest Namibia sunlight and I consistently shoot with ND filters on my MP2.

The definite conclusion we can come to is that this is not a resolution problem, but 99% juddery digital video is an encoding or frame rate interpolation problem. He signed off by saying that this would need some experimentation in the field to come to real conclusions. With test shooting in many different conditions.

Actually everything on YouTube is not 30 FPS. YouTube now allows the play back to be the same as it was rendered. You are correct that In TV there are two standards NTSC (29.97) and PAL (25) but 24 FPS is universal for film and many YouTube videos are now in this frame rate as well.

To check this out (for those that have never seen it) - after starting a YouTube video (even those embedded on this thread) Right Click on the playback and at the bottom click "Stats For Nerds" and you will see the details of the video. Pay close attention to the second line - Viewport/Frames - and as the video plays, make sure you don't see any dropped frames as these are definitely going to be skips in the video. Below that on the third line you will see Current/Optimal Res and at the end of that you will see frame rate.

It is important to note that this 'Frame Rate' is the frame rate that the video was rendered at (if edited in an NLE) or, if straight out of the camera, that it was shot at. Where I think a lot of people induce problems is they shoot at one rate and render in another. For instance if you shoot at 25 FPS and then bring it into an editor on a timeline that is running 30 (29.97) there will be problems.