DJI Mavic, Air and Mini Drones
Friendly, Helpful & Knowledgeable Community
Join Us Now

Australia - Drone Licensing from July 1st 2019

Ahh good point, I knew I would forget something. All R.P.A. pilots regardless of licence will be required to have an Aviation Reference Number (A.R.N).

Regards
Ari

Ah yes, makes sense, point of contact requirement . . . glad I got it then, one less thing to do.
I spoke to the CASA rep at the recent Aeronautical open day up in QLD recently, and he said if you pass the DJI quiz ok, that's about the level of CASA questions for rec pilots.
 
if you pass the DJI quiz ok, that's about the level of CASA questions for rec pilots.

Yes, that's the impression I have been given for the R.P.A. accreditation. Most people who fly should be able to pass the R.P.A. without any study, at least you'd hope so as it will cover just the basic standard operating conditions.

My kids each have their own Spark and they're all going to do the E.R.P.A. as it's not that much more and it'll allow them to come with me on some jobs so I can prepare them to work in the company when they leave school.

Regards
Ari
 
the situation is that recreational pilots who account for 95%+ of the R.P.A. in the country and 99.5% of the actionable offenses are going to be charged $20 for unlimited aircraft while an RePL who is already on record, is unlikely to take part in an offense as they are formally trained in the rules and have too much invested to risk losing it are going to pay $160 per aircraft per year.

I vaguely recall the details of the CASA submission online questionnaire now, think I have a link back to my replies somewhere.

That situation you mention did strike me as very unjust.

Just wondering how many commercial licence holders spoke up with that opportunity, made their voices heard, or if possibly many were too complacent and missed the chance ?

The public consultation period is over, but this isn't set in concrete yet ?
This is where an association is needed to push commercial operators point across.

Either GOVCO / CASA has ignored response to commercial submissions on these costs, or just too many couldn't be bothered giving feedback.
 
Just wondering how many commercial licence holders spoke up with that opportunity, made their voices heard, or if possibly many were too complacent and missed the chance

The training provider I qualified with has a facebook page for current and past students and I'm pleased to say that every pilot who went through in my course and most of the people in the group along with the training provider themselves (all aviation professionals with national airlines) all made a submission. It was taken fairly seriously by everyone who was made aware of it that I have knowledge of.

The public consultation period is over, but this isn't set in concrete yet

You know how it goes with QANGOs like C.A.S.A. It was probably set in stone before submissions where even called for.; At least you could be forgiven for thinking that.

This is where an association is needed to push commercial operators point across.

There is one organisation that claims to be a representative body and I'm not going to name them or throw any shade in their direction other than to say that they have many different levels of membership, the most affordable being the "pay us your money and shut up while we decide what's in your best interests" type of membership. Any type of company/corporate/gold membership is more expensive than a Mavic 2 and flymore kit..... not exactly conducive to inclusivity, accountability or public consultation. Also their lack of profile is a good gauge as to their current effectivelness but then again who am I to talk as a (very reluctant) past Director of the Wireless Institute of Australia? I could write "How to p*ss off the government and alienate those you claim to represent for dummies".

Regards
Ari
 
I know the organisation you are talking about (obviously) and I must say that while I have sat on 2 different CASA consultation panes, I have not seen their presence.
I also tend to agree that the latest public consultation was not going to change any of the proposed upcoming rules. I will say that it’s not so much CASA that is pushing this agenda, but politicians and senators who, while have never had anything to do with RPAS, are making decisions based on their vast experience.........
 
You know how it goes with QANGOs like C.A.S.A. It was probably set in stone before submissions where even called for.; At least you could be forgiven for thinking that.
An easy impression to get when you see who's the driving force behind this ...
From my contact with his people, he didn't seem particularly interested in anything that clashed with his pre-conceived ideas.
 
I will say that it’s not so much CASA that is pushing this agenda, but politicians and senators who, while have never had anything to do with RPAS, are making decisions based on their vast experience.........


Well that's you, Meta4 and myself all of a like mind. We must be right! :D

From my contact with his people, he didn't seem particularly interested in anything that clashed with his pre-conceived ideas.

Yes I've seen this approach before "Never let the facts get in the way of pushing a perfectly good agenda". Sad isn't it?

Regards
Ari
 
An easy impression to get when you see who's the driving force behind this ...
From my contact with his people, he didn't seem particularly interested in anything that clashed with his pre-conceived ideas.

Wow, what an a$$hat.
"preventing further mid-air incidents" ?
"180 near misses between drones and other aircraft last year" ?

While I agree there is potential for some incidents in the air, especially as referred to in the story about particularly younger users (parents need to know they have to be responsible for their childrens use of drones, even toys) . . . every time I see these figures on so called near misses and drones, I can't help recalling this . . .

aircraft-id-guide-for-airline-pilots.jpg
 
From my perspective it's punitive and unjustified.

I think we probably agree that some form of licencing was always going to eventuate here as overseas and if it's inevitable then the balance is probably about as right as it can be.

On the other hand registration at the fee scale they are suggesting doesn't stack up. They are telling us that the reason for the registration is to cover the administration costs and the costs of establishing a database and management regime. Well, the truth of it is that as far as RePLs go they already have that. They collect all of this data from the training providers when we do the course and sit the exams. If they didn't know who I was and where to find me then how for example were they able to contact me out of the blue last month and invite me to attend a consultation regarding the new system at C.A.S.A.main office in Brisbane? I've already shelled out a fair bit in licencing and don't get me started on ReOC fees, the word thou$and$ is accurate.

Recreational pilots on the other hand are totally different. C.A.S.A. is not able to guess the number of R.P.A. in the country, they say between 30 000 and 100 000. That's a pretty large area of uncertainty and of course how could it be otherwise when people have been able to walk into any number of retailers and lay down their money and walkout with the gear for some years. This of course leads to recreational pilots being almost unknown and unpoliceable. The only recreational pilots who have ever been sanctioned are either caught in the act or silly enough to post footage of themselves on social media or YouTube.

Se the situation is that recreational pilots who account for 95%+ of the R.P.A. in the country and 99.5% of the actionable offenses are going to be charged $20 for unlimited aircraft while an RePL who is already on record, is unlikely to take part in an offense as they are formally trained in the rules and have too much invested to risk losing it are going to pay $160 per aircraft per year. There's not too many major Australian based players really, most of the big ones are overseas interests and the majority are small startups like anzacjack or myself. If everything goes perfectly I still don't expect to see any return over expenditure for 3 years and C.A.S.A. now want to sting me a 4 figure sum each year on top? After they establish the database and management system they justify continuing the fees of that scale on what basis for that matter?

At best this is an inequitable excercise in making the compliant few pay for the policing of the unknown and vast majority. At the worst it is nothing more than a blatant cash grab and a stealth tax. I already know of several operators who have said they will shut up shop if it is not re thought. Dropping the outrage and being just plainly honest another thousand or two (or more) a year for the next three years when I am already in for a 5 figure sum (and climbing) and I am not making any income may be enough to stop me. It was always going to be tight starting up a new business, it is with any business with over 80% of any kind going under in the first 2 years but this sort of fee structure was just simply not on the cards or factored in my business plan when I decided to give it a shot.

Fair to say I'm pretty preturbed.

Regards
Ari
Hi Ari, I totally agree with your comments, most recreational drone pilots will fly under the radar, ( pardon the pun! ) and not bother to get a licence. MAAA have been operating for many years without government interference with many model aero clubs and trained pilots all over Australia without any problems as you know. Just another government sting. Regards, whirrwolf. Neil M.A.D.M.A.C. Mandurah and districts model aero club. MAAA member Ex VK6IA (1977- 2000)
 
Hi Ari, I totally agree with your comments, most recreational drone pilots will fly under the radar, ( pardon the pun! ) and not bother to get a licence. MAAA have been operating for many years without government interference with many model aero clubs and trained pilots all over Australia without any problems as you know. Just another government sting. Regards, whirrwolf. Neil M.A.D.M.A.C. Mandurah and districts model aero club. MAAA member Ex VK6IA (1977- 2000)


Hi Neil

Thanks for the shout out and welcome to the forums.

Mostly I loved my time with the local MAAA aero modelers club which has been going in one form or another for over 50 years. I really enjoyed teaching the kids (both old a young) to fly and getting out and flying on the edge. The writing was on the wall for me when all the old certifications went out of the windows in the 1990s and we were all required to re certify under FAI and the personality politics killed it for me much like in Amateur Radio.

What broke the camel's back for me was when the club banned debate on which was the best controller mode on club premises. It didn't mean anything to me personally, I fly all four modes and was the only one teaching more than one mode at the club so I couldn't care less. Even to this day I fly mode 2 for R.P.A. because that's pretty well the industry standard and it lets other people be able to use my aircraft if needed and generally fly mode 1 for fixed wing R/C aircraft because that's dominant in Queensland but when the members started to act like children over it I stopped laughing at their antics and when the club thought that the answer was to ban debate over it I couldn't believe they would be so draconian so I just voted with my feet.

No matter how much fun you have someone will be there to spoil it for you and I'm afraid that the new registration fees are threatening to do so for me here. Yet another case of making my passion my profession and there by ruining it for myself. You'd think I'd learn wouldn't you?

Regards
Ari
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simmo
i will be watching these new rules with interest,in the UK we have something similar coming in later this year,i do agree that the costs for commercial operators do seem disproportional to the basic hobby flyer charges,i suppose they think you are making a fortune and can afford it.


I think they want to thin out the "professional" users to those who really are professional and not the "semi-pro" who are actually hobbyists doing gigs on the side and discurrage the casual idiots. Drones are aircraft and it is a crowded airspace in the UK
 
I think they want to thin out the "professional" users to those who really are professional and not the "semi-pro" who are actually hobbyists doing gigs on the side and discurrage the casual idiots. Drones are aircraft and it is a crowded airspace in the UK
Do you have a sub 2kg Excluded category in the UK???
 
Do you have a sub 2kg Excluded category in the UK???
I think Australia is alone in having introduced that.
It was quite legal to fly and photograph so it made no sense that selling those photos would be illegal.
The senator mentioned above couldn't understand it and wanted CASA to cancel the new policy.
 
My point really is... If Jagraphics scenario is right, just remove the sub 2kg component here....
 
My point really is... If Jagraphics scenario is right, just remove the sub 2kg component here....


Actually Simmo I'm quite ok with there being an "excluded" category here. As we've said it's unique to Australia and I think it'd be a shame if we lost it.

I really don't have an issue with a hobbyist making a couple of bucks as long as the pilot obeys the CASRs and generally speaking the kind of jobs an excluded class pilot would take on are not the kind of job that I favour anyway. Also generally speaking and in no way trying to be denigratory there would be damned few excluded class pilots with the aircraft and flight skills, hardware inventory, software and know how of your average RePL or business with a ReOC so I don't see the threat really. Also if they do become skilled enough someone with a ReOC might want to employ them. I've had to turn down a couple of jobs due to not having enough people and it being too big to work myself.

As I mentioned before as well, it's a good way to bring people in to the industry and test whether it's for them which is why I'm asking my kids to get the excluded class licence. That way I can take them out on some jobs while they are still studying at school and get them trained up in preparation for working in and taking over the business in 5 or so years without myself or them having to shell out a couple of grand to do the RePL just yet. I see it as being a useful opportunity for anyone interested to test the waters to see if it's for them and people in the industry looking for potential pilots.

Obviously not everyone has my business model so not everyone is going to see it the same way but if your business hasn't got something to make it unique and stand out from the crowd and draw clients to you in preference to an excluded class operator then you're probably in trouble anyway.

Regards
Ari
 
Ahh good point, I knew I would forget something. All R.P.A. pilots regardless of licence will be required to have an Aviation Reference Number (A.R.N).

Regards
Ari

What is an ARN? I have a PPL but have not used the p r ivalage for 15 years. It just became too expensive as a hobby and i then moved overseas for work for a few years.

Is the number in my lisence an ARN?
 
What is an ARN? I have a PPL but have not used the p r ivalage for 15 years. It just became too expensive as a hobby and i then moved overseas for work for a few years.
 
What is an ARN? I have a PPL but have not used the p r ivalage for 15 years. It just became too expensive as a hobby and i then moved overseas for work for a few years.

Is the number in my lisence an ARN?
if you have your PPL then you have an ARN
it is your pilot number
 

DJI Drone Deals

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
131,240
Messages
1,561,188
Members
160,192
Latest member
Britt