Australian Govco now banning DJI drones

[Meta4]

Just a few things to ponder. How many people keep Auto Sync enabled? Location, media and date can be searched and tagged with algorithms. Non essential info is ignored. Military targets get attention. Just sayin'

And if you have AutoSynch enabled or you choose to upload your flight data, the only information that gives is where and when someone flew their drone.
I look at that data all the time looking at flight incidents.
It's gereat to tell how high, how fast,someone flew, what joystick inputs they made, what the failsafe action was set to etc.
But it's of no espionage value to anyone.

 

[YVRGUY]

And if you have AutoSynch enabled or you choose to upload your flight data, the only information that gives is where and when someone flew their drone.
I look at that data all the time looking at flight incidents.
It's gereat to tell how high, how fast,someone flew, what joystick inputs they made, what the failsafe action was set to etc.
But it's of no espionage value to anyone.

And if you have AutoSynch enabled or you choose to upload your flight data, the only information that gives is where and when someone flew their drone.
I look at that data all the time looking at flight incidents.
It's gereat to tell how high, how fast,someone flew, what joystick inputs they made, what the failsafe action was set to etc.
But it's of no espionage value to anyone.

Meta4, if you’re looking for espionage value, nothing beats a homing pigeon with a camera attached. Info in…info out. NO flight or cryptic files to interpret. Just keep a pound of bird seed in the cupboard and your good.

 

[stubaz]

Wasn't the main problem with the Aussie Government the fact that they found 3,000 DJI quadcopters nobody knew were there.. The fact that DJI has ties to the CCP was also raised. I can't see where there's a problem. Doesn't Australia have just one technician who's capable enough to open the casing of the quad and physically check to see if there's hardware capable of "Phoning Home". Surely someone could figure out how they work and what every component does. Also if they are able to garner our top secret info they would have done it by now. Anyway, how many politicians fly quadcopters in their offices with secret documents all over the place or fly on the Senate floor when it's in session?

It seems our politicians are simply copying the US. They're definitely as hopeless as the US lot. Lies appear to be all the rage within both the Governments. It's a bit like the CB radio saga many years ago. Our lot tried to ban them after many thousands of them were being used. They ended up trying to get us to register them and gave that away as too hard. Today we still have the 27Mhz variety plus the UHF offering.

Whatever the US decides our lot will do likewise, but the people will end up ruling and we'll keep our DJI quadcopters, he says hopefully.

 

[Brojon]

My hope is that after a few Political changes to come here in the US , that these bans will settle down everywhere else as well. What bothers me more than this Ban is that some of the biggest countries in the world are becoming afraid of there own shawdow as they continue to play the imaginary Eye Spy Game .

This reminds me of a friend of mine who moved to a bad part of town and saw someone at the window so he called the police , than before the police got there he saw them again at another window and this time as he was just about to shoot thu the window he realzied what he was seeing was his own reflection in the window. lol

Better times are coming , and the whole world will take a deep breath as these Bans are lifted sooner than latter.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.

oh my, sorry bud but that thinking is totally a head-in-the-sand approach.
Just because you like DJI drones doesn't mean the CCP gets a pass.
The spy game as you put it is absolutely not imaginary.
The Chinese have stolen so much tech and trade secrets it's astonishing that we haven't totally banned them.
They are one of the worst actors on the planet when it comes to spying and electronic warfare.
Do even a casual search for Chinese academics spying and stealing for the CCP as well as other greed motivated people.
Then the crocodile tears about that spy balloon being a weather balloon shows just how gullible they think the world is.
China is NOT a friend.

 

[Zbip57]

Zbip, are you serious?

Yes. Seriously, please explain the mechanism by which China is supposedly using DJI drones to spy on America, thus justifying a ban.

I understand the worry about the Hauwei 5G system, as that would be open to the core of the nation's communications system and thus a "relatively" simple thing to spy with. But what exactly is the issue with DJI drones that's causing so much concern? I mean, other than the usual, "It's China. They're the evil empire."

I do vaguely remember there was an issue with very early versions of their Fly app (or was it even the Go app?) being given too many permissions to access everything on your phone, including things like your contact lists, when there was no need for any of that. That was widely trumpeted as China spying on Americans! But it was just sloppy programming and no different from the many other apps constantly running on your phone given permission to do all sorts of stuff that nobody cares about because they never read the terms and conditions and blindly click to accept everything.

The Fly app was updated and corrected many times, so that's no longer an issue, and was never proven to be a major issue in the first place. You can manually choose to select which permissions are given to any app. If you believe China wants to know where you and your phone are located, simply turn off the permission for location services. But of course, then you and the blue dot showing the location of your controller won't show in the app. That's up to you.

Regardless, if you simply turn off your wifi connection while using your drone to prevent any internet connection, and turn off the auto-sync feature that backs up your flight logs, please explain how China is using your drone to spy on military installations? The paranoia is getting to the point where next we'll be told that Chinese pedophiles are watching livestream videos of your kids through your drone every time you fly at their soccer field.

 

[Brojon]

Wasn't the main problem with the Aussie Government the fact that they found 3,000 DJI quadcopters nobody knew were there.. The fact that DJI has ties to the CCP was also raised. I can't see where there's a problem. Doesn't Australia have just one technician who's capable enough to open the casing of the quad and physically check to see if there's hardware capable of "Phoning Home". Surely someone could figure out how they work and what every component does. Also if they are able to garner our top secret info they would have done it by now. Anyway, how many politicians fly quadcopters in their offices with secret documents all over the place or fly on the Senate floor when it's in session?

It seems our politicians are simply copying the US. They're definitely as hopeless as the US lot. Lies appear to be all the rage within both the Governments. It's a bit like the CB radio saga many years ago. Our lot tried to ban them after many thousands of them were being used. They ended up trying to get us to register them and gave that away as too hard. Today we still have the 27Mhz variety plus the UHF offering.

Whatever the US decides our lot will do likewise, but the people will end up ruling and we'll keep our DJI quadcopters, he says hopefully.

We already know that the drones communicate with DJI. That's a fact.
The CCP mandates all Chinese companies maintain allegiance to the CCP and their "requests" are mandatory.
If you think the CCP isn't asking DJI to share data... well, I can't think of polite words to describe.
As far as flights being mundane - I saw a post just last week of a guy 30 miles north of Area 51 (and had the video and screenshots to prove it) bragging about flying his drone there. I can assure you the CCP is interested in those kind of flights.
I'm betting he might have gotten a visit from the Feds over that one.

 

[Zbip57]

We already know that the drones communicate with DJI. That's a fact.

How is that a fact? That's merely speculation.

Please explain how your drone is supposedly communicating with DJI?

It is the app running on your controller or on your phone that can communicate over an internet connection with DJI servers, when you choose to sync your flight logs, or when you choose to download the latest version of their apps, or when you choose to give the app the required permissions for it to operate as needed.

If you choose to operate your app without an internet connection, how can it communicate with DJI? The drone cannot communicate directly with DJI unless through the app and your internet connection.

That said, the drone does, and must, communicate over a limited range with your controller and vice versa. That signal can be intercepted and decoded by DJI's Aeroscope system to reveal the drone's coordinates and flight telemetry. So, given enough Aeroscope systems, China might potentially have a means of monitoring the location of every one of their drones and their operators.

But wait...

Isn't America already volunteering exactly that sort of information, making it available to every Karen with a cellphone, and even plotting on ways to broadcast that information via network availability, with the imposition of their ridiculous Remote ID requirements coming due this September???

I saw a post just last week of a guy 30 miles north of Area 51 (and had the video and screenshots to prove it) bragging about flying his drone there

Again, that drone wasn't hijacked and secretly flown by remote control from China. Was it even a DJI drone? Just some "guy" posting video and screenshots and bragging about it.

Why would China ever bother cooking up some way of secretly stealing data or video from all our drones, without anyone knowing about it, when America chooses to give the info up for free?

 

[Jimmid]

There is no security risk at all. It is just America trying to hurt Chinese industry.
America can't come close to the technology and quality of DJI Drones, so they make up the lie about security.

Ask Eric Snowden about which country does the spying.

And the puppet Australian government does everything America tells it to, including joining every illegal war America has started, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

 

[Zbip57]

There is no security risk at all. It is just America trying to hurt Chinese industry.

That's what I figure too. But if they're actually convincing legislators to pass laws banning the use of DJI drones, surely there must be some evidence to support their claims that China is actively using our drones to spy on us.

Other than the commonly accepted "fact" that China is evil and obviously must be spying on us, and since DJI is a Chinese company it follows that DJI drones must be spying on us, I'm just really curious to know how that's supposedly being accomplished.

Sure, a drone can be used by anyone to take photos and videos of sensitive locations, but that can be done using any drone, not only DJI drones. And it's not the drone sending secrets to China. It's the person taking those photos and then doing nefarious things with them.

Seriously, I want someone to point me to a technical article anywhere explaining exactly how a consumer drone used by any fire department, police department, any government agency, or any consumer, is enough of an espionage threat to national security to warrant such a ban. Other than someone deliberately choosing to spy with his drone, like the guy flying over Area 51, how are DJI drones more of a threat than any other company's drones or anyone's cellphone?

 

[Jimmid]

That's what I figure too. But if they're actually convincing legislators to pass laws banning the use of DJI drones, surely there must be some evidence to support their claims that China is actively using our drones to spy on us.

Other than the commonly accepted "fact" that China is evil and obviously must be spying on us, and since DJI is a Chinese company it follows that DJI drones must be spying on us, I'm just really curious to know how that's supposedly being accomplished.

Sure, a drone can be used by anyone to take photos and videos of sensitive locations, but that can be done using any drone, not only DJI drones. And it's not the drone sending secrets to China. It's the person taking those photos and then doing nefarious things with them.

Seriously, I want someone to point me to a technical article anywhere explaining exactly how a consumer drone used by any fire department, police department, any government agency, or any consumer, is enough of an espionage threat to national security to warrant such a ban. Other than someone deliberately choosing to spy with his drone, like the guy flying over Area 51, how are DJI drones more of a threat than any other company's drones or anyone's cellphone?

I'm afraid that you will not find any technical information that shows DJI drones to be a security risk. If there was it would be all over the news and internet by now.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that America gets countries to follow their lead by using facts and logic.

It does it by threats of sanctions and giving favours.

America has bullied countries into banning Huawei, including Australia, with no proof, but now some countries in the EU are standing up to America and refusing to ban them because they know that it is the best and most effective 5g system. They would not do that if there was any sort of proof of spying. As Eric Snowden said in a recent article, America doesn't like the fact that they can't use it to spy!

Good grief, it was America that bugged Merkel's phone when she was in power, not China!
And Germany was a ally.

America can't stand any competition to its businesses, that's all.

 

[mavic3usa]

I'm afraid that you will not find any technical information that shows DJI drones to be a security risk. If there was it would be all over the news and internet by now.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that America gets countries to follow their lead by using facts and logic.

It does it by threats of sanctions and giving favours.

America has bullied countries into banning Huawei, including Australia, with no proof, but now some countries in the EU are standing up to America and refusing to ban them because they know that it is the best and most effective 5g system. They would not do that if there was any sort of proof of spying. As Eric Snowden said in a recent article, America doesn't like the fact that they can't use it to spy!

Good grief, it was America that bugged Merkel's phone when she was in power, not China!
And Germany was a ally.

America can't stand any competition to its businesses, that's all.

Wow, you're pretty much anti-America. Sad.

 

[Jimmid]

Wow, you're pretty much anti-America. Sad.

No, not Anti American, just Anti American government policies and practices.
I have quite a few American friends and I have worked on American bases in Australia.
Some of them agree with me.

And the American government is prosecuting a Australian journalist just for printing the truth.

 

[Jimmid]

I am against things my government has done. That doesn't make me anti Australian.

A lot of Americans who care speak out about their governments actions.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

capable enough to open the casing of the quad and physically check to see if there's hardware capable of "Phoning Home". Surely someone could figure out how they work and what every component does. Also if they are able to garner our top secret info they would have done it by now.

Yes I personally feel reverse engineering would have happened by now in one of many more concerned countries.
Probably many times !

I won’t get into the political side if things too much, although the whole thread has a political theme anyway.
I hope others can also curb their concerns on both sides put forward in more recent posts.
The thread will get hacked up and probably shut down otherwise.

The important thing is how this affects the ease some of our emergency services can perform their jobs, using the best tools available.
And it’s be hard to argue DJI aircraft are not the best for police type work, S&R, and who knows one day even surf lifesaving ops could be affected if someone in GOVCO got concerned about privacy issues and possible photo leaks etc.

I do agree at the moment it would be almost certain no one at DJI can get anything other than flight data, and that’s if you sync it auto or manually.
If more data like photos etc could be obtained we’d have be hearing about it a long time ago.

I agree the USA and Australia, it’s people, have been through a lot together, but both countries should be concerned about our modern western GOVCOS, and for that matter other political systems besides western culture.
They all seem to be prioritising staying / getting to the top of the pack.

 

[Zbip57]

I'm afraid that you will not find any technical information that shows DJI drones to be a security risk. If there was it would be all over the news and internet by now.

The absence of technical information has never stopped the press from spouting nonsense as though it's the gospel truth.

It's like the supposed alien sighting in Las Vegas where people saw a meteorite burn up overhead with a sonic boom, causing a scared kid to claim he saw two aliens lurking in his backyard after their UFO crashed there. The press was all over that one, showing photos of the "perfect circle" carved in the gravel yard, which was obviously created by the kid doing donuts with his Camaro because the same circle shows on Google satellite views from months before.

Then David Grusch "UFO Whistleblower" claims to have proof that the USA has recovered crashed UFOs (some even intact) and some containing alien remains. And he's supposed to be a credible witness, so the news proclaims this as "confirmation" that extraterrestrials do exist.

And yet not a shred of actual proof has ever been produced by anyone, because it's "classified", eh. That's code for non-existent.

It's very much the same thing driving the ban on DJI drones. Someone doesn't like China flooding the US market, creating a near-monopoly on drone sales, so they accuse them of spying. Say it often enough and people start believing it. When asked for technical information on how that might be done, or what sort of information is even possible to be collected this way, well that's "classified".

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

The absence of technical information has never stopped the press from spouting nonsense as though it's the gospel truth.

Halleluiah !
Only last night I watched a youtube video from one of our top shelf current affairs segments, funny enough called 'A Current Affair' !
It was from 2018 and all about perverts / drones spying on people, ha ha . . .

Just for a laugh . . .

But on a serious note, just how many people not into drones watching this (that were in their infancy of popularity back then) would have swallowed that whole load of codswallop !!
(And the DroneShield rubbish !! Illegal to use such tech then and now.)

 

[Meta4]

We already know that the drones communicate with DJI. That's a fact.
The CCP mandates all Chinese companies maintain allegiance to the CCP and their "requests" are mandatory.
If you think the CCP isn't asking DJI to share data... well, I can't think of polite words to describe.
As far as flights being mundane - I saw a post just last week of a guy 30 miles north of Area 51 (and had the video and screenshots to prove it) bragging about flying his drone there. I can assure you the CCP is interested in those kind of flights.
I'm betting he might have gotten a visit from the Feds over that one.

That's just fantasy.
Watch the video l linked in post #14 for some factual input from people who know.

 

[Chip]

Ask Eric Snowden about which country does the spying.

And the puppet Australian government does everything America tells it to, including joining every illegal war America has started, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Its actually Edward Snowden. And the same dopes who employed, trained and enabled Snowden to access and steal NSA secrets, now work for DJI. If you think that AUS is a lapdog of the USA then you have zero respect for either country and perhaps should consider living somewhere else.

 

[Jimmid]

Its actually Edward Snowden. And the same dopes who employed, trained and enabled Snowden to access and steal NSA secrets, now work for DJI. If you think that AUS is a lapdog of the USA then you have zero respect for either country and perhaps should consider living somewhere else.

Oh yes, the NSA secret that the American government wanted hidden, about the illegal and immoral spying by the American government on its own people. Wow, can't let that secret out!

Some people actually have a conscience, love their country, but loathe immoral and corrupt politicians that do things to hurt the country. Snowden had a conscience and that is why he could not keep quite and cover it up. And he was persecuted for it.

When you love your country you have ZERO respect for politicians who sell out their own people to a foreign government.

It is the puppets in our government who care more about their own status than the people that they have been elected to represent, who should leave our country!

 

[Beet]

That's just fantasy.
Watch the video l linked in post #14 for some factual input from people who know.

Watched all of it, liked the view point of the people actually using drones to save people's lives, plus all the other works being done.
I think it all comes down to 3 things, Paranoia, Greed and Power..