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BBC 2 tonight 9-30

I suspect, it's rather more fundamental than that - in many cases it seems to be a failure to grasp the difference betweeen *news* and *editorial* reporting. Not that there are not some extremely biased news sources and extremely even handed editorialists, of course.

I'm someone who cross checks important news stories against multiple global outlets spread across the political spectrum to get as broad a view as possible and draw my own conclusions. With that in mind, I can assure you that (a few specific areas aside) the BBC *news* (both UK and World Service coverage) is about as politically centrist and even handed as you can get. Even so, I still apply the Russian proverb of "Trust, but verify" to them - just with a little less skepticism than most other outlets.

However, when is comes to their *editorial* reporting - such as this programme - then they'll absolutely push whatever agenda/viewpoint the writers and producers of the specific programme can get away with putting into it. That's what editorials essentially are; an opinion. Unlike the news, these programmes are also often produced by outside agencies and paid for by the license fee or revenue from the World Service, and do not have to adhere as closely to the standards that the BBC applies to its own reporting.

(FWIW, I thought the programme was very sensationalist and set up "what if" scenarios to support their predetermined conclusion; e.g. using .308 rounds instead of a suitable load of shot, FFS. Not the BBC's finest hour...)

I broadly agree, but a documentary is not simple news reporting - it's always going to have a slant of some kind. On the matter of the ammunition, he was operating at 300 meters. There is no suitable load of shot for that distance.
 
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as i said in my post#11 i think that the whole thing was just contrived to give drones a bad name ,we in the drone community are just in it for the pleasure it gives us ,and i think that the purpose of the program was to show that there are measures to defeat those who try and create issues at air ports,i am sure that intelligent viewers would have been amused by someone trying to shoot down a drone in a controlled and contrived enviroment which bore no relation to real life,

I just don't understand your point of view at all. This was not about "the drone community", whatever you think that is. As for trying to shoot it down - have you already forgotten the endless posts saying "just shoot it down" in response to drones around airports? Well that portion of the documentary was actually a fairly interesting discussion of the practical difficulties of doing so given the size of the areas involved, the type of weapon required, and the associated hazards.
 
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The impact testing results were interesting though - generally consistent with previous data. No doubt DJI will issue another demand for an apology and retraction.
I agree, What is the chance of any “folded” DJI drone hitting the leading edge of an aircraft wing at speed? Because that was the only way in real life that damage could happen!
 
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I agree, What is the chance of any “folded” DJI drone hitting the leading edge of an aircraft wing at speed? Because that was the only way in real life that damage could happen!

The test was evaluating consequence, not probability. And the configuration of the drone is largely irrelevant to the outcome since it is the individual components, not the shell, that are the penetrating projectiles.
 
Wow, this blew up a bit!! Interesting exchange though.

@sar104 I have a question if you don't mind. How do you watch the native BBC feed here in the US? I have tried a few VPNs and the BBC Viewer is smart enough to detect the ones I have tried and it geo-blocks me.
 
Wow, this blew up a bit!! Interesting exchange though.

@sar104 I have a question if you don't mind. How do you watch the native BBC feed here in the US? I have tried a few VPNs and the BBC Viewer is smart enough to detect the ones I have tried and it geo-blocks me.

PM sent.
 
As for trying to shoot it down - have you already forgotten the endless posts saying "just shoot it down" in response to drones around airports? Well that portion of the documentary was actually a fairly interesting discussion of the practical difficulties of doing so given the size of the areas involved, the type of weapon required, and the associated hazards.

"Just shoot it down!" (referring to conventional kinetic weapons) gets debunked by pretty much anyone with a clue every time it comes up, which is usually by someone without a clue. As you say, it's all about the hazards - mostly where the bullet/shot ends up, regardless of whether it hits the drone or not, and where the remains of the drone land if it does. Foreign Object Debris (usually shortened to "FOD") on an airfield is not a good idea, so the idea is a particular non-starter there, especially if success means that the drone is going break up in the air.

So far, the only kinetic weapons I've seen proposed that look like they *might* stand a reasonable chance at bringing a drone down in something approaching real world circumstances are those that shoot nets or shot via a flak-type round that deploys some way down range. Both clearly have problems, especially with range (both for the projectile itself and when to deploy the payload), so realistically we're left with EM weapons. That means either directed jamming which means you have to see the drone to target it, or just flooding the 2.4GHz band, which is used by WiFi and a whole *bunch* of other stuff besides most drones, so the potential for collateral damage is probably greater than using kinetic rounds. Jamming a signal also relies on there *being* a signal - not necessarily the case with pre-programmed flight paths. There's also a laser based system in development, but as you might imagine that's hardly portable or suitable for many deployments - it's intended more for military bases in hostile locations, I expect.

Frankly, I'm not seeing a general purpose solution to this, let alone one that could shield something as large an a major airfield, anytime soon. Specific scenarios, sure, you might be able to engineer something, especially if you have some boundary area where you can (say) play havoc with the 2.4GHz band or have military budgets to play with. For sites in general public spaces or immediately adjacent to them... yeah, good luck with that.
 
I just don't understand your point of view at all. This was not about "the drone community", whatever you think that is. As for trying to shoot it down - have you already forgotten the endless posts saying "just shoot it down" in response to drones around airports? Well that portion of the documentary was actually a fairly interesting discussion of the practical difficulties of doing so given the size of the areas involved, the type of weapon required, and the associated hazards.
the point i was trying to make was the fact that the program,was as you said not about the ""normal" person who flies their drone for what ever reason,i am sure we all know the outcome of flying near to or over an airport,and the consequences of such actions,to me being on this forum and being a drone flyer myself makes me part of a" drone community"and i am glad that this forum allows different opinions on a subject to be expressed
 
Hey Waylander, go away! I, personally, am quite tired of your far right crowd's "I can make it by myself"(which you can't) bullcrap! You think Brexit is going to solve all your problems-it won't, but, it will give your government the excuse to cancel more and more of their social programs and your country is going to continue its inescapable slide towards irrelevance...

Hey Lefty.... now you want to make it personal, what happened to free speech, at least you have a bill of right's to protect yours Lol
 
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The BBC are the biggest bunch of Muppets on the planet only covering stories that suit them and bent to their own version. Totally bias coverage on most stories yet people still watch the BBC! I’m not a foil hat person far from it but any dribble that company covers is just to get ratings and not actually tell a story as it is so I never watch the BBC.

I have seen that show (online after some one told me about it) and the fact they tried to shoot it down with a .308 round is unbelievable! As a firearms holder in the UK they chose a round that would be incredibly hard to shoot it with and totally unsuitable for the job either the “sniper” is an idiot or it’s been engineered to fail. The entire think just stunk!

Felt like the companies making the anti drone tech just worked with the BBC to make a powerful advert for them to sell their tech.
I totally agree more bias from the BBC just like Brexit but won't go there
 
I watched the programme and thought it was mostly entertainment dressed up as investigative reporting. Yes, it painted a fairly negative picture of drone usage but it was substantially aimed at the countermeasures against those people who might be seeking to weaponise or misuse the technology. There are always going to be people seeking to do this in the same way that vehicles are used for terrorist acts - of which there are countless examples. The UK has over 40 million registered vehicles on the road, the overwhelming proportion of which are used in a responsible and legal manner. Concrete barriers continue to be erected on London bridges, outside the UK parliament as well as at shopping centres and plazas. It's a fact of life and the public expect to be protected. The same applies to UAV's - sensible protection measures are both desirable and necessary. I don't take drone countermeasures as an infringement on my recreational flying anymore that I feel persecuted or discriminated against when seeing barriers on London Bridge when I am driving my car. Obviously I'd rather we didn't need them though.

Price Waterhouse Coopers released their drone report last year forecasting the effect of drones on the UK economy by 2030. The figures are astonishing: £42bn increase in GDP, £16bn net cost saving to UK economy and an estimated 628,000 UK jobs created in the drones economy.

Drones Impact on UK Economy

This is the flipside to the BBC programme - the establishment of an entirely new sector which will no doubt be supported by both local and central government. Regulation is inevitable but for the recreational flyer this needs to be based around a risk based approach where the responsibility lies with the individual to operate within clear and sensible limits. Education is the key.

I take a far more optimistic view of UAV's and I think that many of the recreational flyers of today will be established within the new drones economy of the future.
 
I actually have professional concern about the low barrier to acquiring (and the anonymity of acquiring) a Mavic 2, loading it up with 400g of home made plastique and ball bearings from Screwfix (PM me for a recipe - I read Chemistry at Oxford in the 70s) and using Litchi to target it (out of VLOS and out of of controller contact) onto your target from a distance of 3+kms

Are you going to do a "how to" video for youtube?



We promise to visit you in Belmarsh.
:)
 
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DJIs full open letter is here:-

DJI has said it feels it is its duty to respond to the BBC following its reporting pattern when it comes to drones.
You can read the full letter addressed to director general Tony Hall below:
‘Dear Lord Nego Hall of Birkenhead,
This open-letter precedes DJI’s official response via the BBC’s complaint process on the issues of impartiality and accuracy. It will be published on both public DJI channels and shared with media organisations as of today, Thursday 4th July.
As the world’s leader in civilian drones and aerial imaging technology, we feel it is our duty on behalf of the millions of responsible drone users around the globe, to express our deep disappointment at the BBC’s negative portrayal of drone technology and one-sided reporting based on hearsay. This now seems to be an established pattern of reporting by the BBC, with such bias appearing both during Panorama’s ‘The Gatwick Drone Attack’ that aired 15th April 2019, and more recently during Horizon’s ‘Britain’s Next Air Disaster? Drones’ aired 1st July 2019.
The BBC is a public service broadcaster whose remit is to ‘inform, educate, and entertain.’[ We strongly believe that both these programmes fall very short of informing and educating viewers in an impartial and accurate manner. It is the BBC’s duty to paint a more nuanced picture of the events at Gatwick, given that there is still no firm conclusion due to the lack of physical evidence or any photographic material to prove that a drone was even the actual cause of the disruptions, and therefore no information upon which to analyse the actual risk or threat to aviation. In relation to ‘Britain’s Next Air Disaster? Drones’, only about one minute of an hour-long programme was given to the multitude of benefits that drone technology has to offer society.

DJI was approached by both the Panorama and Horizon production teams and provided plenty of input including an interview with our Head of Policy for Europe. However, almost none of the material was included in either programme. We have to assume this is because the BBC ultimately preferred to boost viewing figures by focusing on sensational, high-risk scenarios that are vanishingly rare or almost impossible, while ignoring evidence that drone technology is safe and that the drone industry itself has implemented various features to mitigate the risks described. This cannot be construed as balanced or impartial in anyone’s book.
‘Britain’s Next Air Disaster? Drones’
Looking at ‘Britain’s Next Air Disaster? Drones’ specifically, the narrative of the documentary was already set in choosing an ex-marine to host the programme. Throughout the programme this military background was referred to time and time again to establish some kind of justification for his expertise to talk knowledgeably on the matter of drone technology. This clearly framed the issue as a military issue right from the very start. The documentary almost exclusively focused on threats and risks posed by drones, and the general tone of the documentary was overwhelmingly negative, with the presenter frequently using the words ‘catastrophic’ and ‘terrifying’. Although at no point was DJI explicitly named, the programme frequently showed DJI-branded drones in a very negative light, completely overshadowing what DJI has achieved in the drone industry, our many safety and security features, and the impeccable safety record of the industry.

In the programme, there were many instances where the situation was heavily skewed to portray the ‘danger of drones’. The programme summary suggested that airtime would be given to the positive applications of drones. However, the ratio of discussion on this versus risk was worryingly disproportionate and in many cases unevidenced despite ample evidence being available. The presenter referred to ‘endless positive uses’ of drones, but only fleetingly made reference to four or five applications. We’d like to take this opportunity to address just some of these segments:

Impact Assessment Testing
The Impact Assessment testing shown on the programme can only be described as disturbing. When conducting scientific research relating to aviation risk, it is fundamentally important that a collision scenario reflect real-world inputs, especially as to the physical nature of the objects colliding. The Horizon programme did the exact opposite, relying upon an artificial amalgam of a drone battery, and randomly placed rigid carbon-fibre rods, glued together. There is no conceivable way that this artificial “Frankendrone” provides any useful information about collision risk. Previously, DJI raised objections about testing sponsored by BALPA involving the artificiality of the javelin-like object used in their collision test, as well as the University of Dayton Research Institute video involving speeds in excess of the capabilities of the drone and aircraft. In contrast, where research has been thorough and scientific, such as in the case of the FAA’s ASSURE programme, we have supported the resulting knowledge that is informative to the industry and the public. The ASSURE research showed that small drones do not pose a catastrophic risk to aircraft in flight. Indeed, ASSURE’s research shows that the structure of a typical drone causes elastic flexing, dissipating and absorbing impact energy. However, by modifying the physical construction of the “drone,” the test becomes immediately scientifically invalid.
Compounding the disturbing test is the choice of aircraft component. The testing shown in the Horizon programme involved old parts from small planes that carry one to five passengers. Those results were then used to suggest the risk of a drone coming into contact with a modern commercial airliner carrying 250 plus people. Furthermore, the Horizon tests were carried out on the same piece of plane. It is more than likely that the structure was weaker for the second test, when it had already been subjected to heavy impact from the gelatin bird. Although it was acknowledged that the old small plane parts used for the test were not the same as would likely be found in newer more sophisticated aircraft and that the likelihood of such a collision with a drone was ‘quite low’, the segment still cited BALPA saying that they believed that such a collision could result in an aircraft actually crashing. Where was the balanced perspective of a well-informed voice from industry who could speak to the science of these tests?

Airprox Board Report
A section of the documentary was dedicated to Airprox Board reports, referring to 125 near-collisions between aircraft and drones that were reported in 2018, and specifically going into detail about one reported incident in July 2016 where a drone allegedly came within 20m from an A320 above the Shard building in London (at 4,900 feet altitude and 180 knots speed (207 mph)). The Airprox Board, which accepts all pilot reports at face value, did not independently evaluate whether the pilot could have made such careful observations at that speed, or how likely it was to have seen a drone at that altitude instead of a bird, as did the producers of this documentary. The evidence behind these reports is taken as fact. However, the results of a Freedom of Information request to the Airprox Board from last month states:

“in all cases, UK Airprox Board (UKAB) has no confirmation that a drone has flown close to an aircraft other than the report made by the pilot(s).
Similarly, other than from the report of the pilot(s), UKAB has no confirmation that a drone was involved.”[
On pages 15 onwards of our ‘Elevating Safety: Protecting the Skies in the Drone Era’[ you will find numerous examples from around the world where a drone has been falsely reported to be involved in an aircraft near-miss or collision incident, namely Romeoville, Illinois, August 2015; London, April 2016; Mozambique, January 2017; Sedona, Arizona, February 2017; Adelaide, Australia, July 2017; Waihi, New Zealand, March 2018; Boston, January 2015; Los Angeles, March 2016; Toronto, November 2016; Auckland, New Zealand, April 2018. Contrary to all of these false or unsubstantiated reports, and the millions of flying hours clocked up by civilian drone users around the world, there have only been two confirmed incidents of a drone coming into contact with a helicopter, and both landed safely.
Having these reports published in trusted media creates a scenario of misinformation potentially more dangerous than fake news about the drone industry. For regulators, elected officials and drone companies trying to make drones safer, inaccurate news stories aren’t just misleading. They harm the process of improving safety, because they focus attention on outrageous events that didn’t happen, instead of on aviation risks that may be less sensational but much more prevalent. They also lead to stricter regulation, which curtails drone operations, and results in fewer lives saved using drone technology. Quite literally the BBC’s sensational false reporting on drone risks could itself cost lives.
As we detail in Part 2 of our Elevating Safety report, there are many studies which raise doubts about pilot drone sightings. Academic research provides strong evidence that the account of an airplane pilot alone may not be sufficient to establish that a drone was flown in close proximity to a traditional aircraft: Pilots of airplanes moving at 150 mph or faster often have less than a fraction of a second to identify unexpected objects near them, and human reaction time cannot reliably allow them to determine what that object is. Aviation experts have long realised the limits of “detect and avoid,” the well-established requirement for airplane and helicopter pilots to keep a vigilant lookout for other aircraft. Long before the advent of drones, a 1991 Australian Transport Safety Bureau research report warned, “The physical limitations of the human eye are such that even the most careful search does not guarantee that traffic will be sighted.”[Against that backdrop, researchers have begun studying the limits of pilots’ ability to spot drones, especially popular consumer drones smaller than one meter across. One study of human visual acuity concluded aircraft pilots had less than a 10 percent chance of spotting a small drone nearby, even in ideal conditions. It modelled the behaviour of the human eye and how a variety of drones would appear in different scenarios to reach general conclusions about their visibility.

Safety and Security Features
The vast majority of drones in popular use have safety features that deter and prevent the risk scenarios described in the Horizon documentary.
From our inception 13 years ago, DJI has been at the leading edge of technological innovation, helping to promote and shape what is today a civilian drone industry still in its infancy. Whether used for construction, inspection, emergency response, agriculture, conservation, filming or any other industry, the full potential of drone technology is yet to be seen. Unfortunately, this technology is in danger of being stifled by misrepresentation and scare mongering in the UK media.
DJI has introduced safety features and technology including geofencing at airports, power plants and prisons; maximum altitude limits; obstacle sensing technology; a return-to-home feature; knowledge testing of new drone pilots; remote identification to enable security responses (AeroScope); and our new commitment to expanding our existing implementation of ADS-B receivers that detect nearby traditional aircraft and alert drone pilots to possible collision risks.[ In short, safety is a forefront consideration of everything we and other manufacturers do.
However, the Horizon programme ignored many of these features:
Geofencing
This was almost entirely overlooked in the programme which focused primarily on “easy ways to get around it.”
Remote ID solution (AeroScope)
We have reason to believe that AeroScope was not in use during the early stages of recent airport sightings in the UK, but hope that it will be more broadly deployed in the interest of safety and security. One of the key initiatives of the industry, and one of our ten Elevating Safety points[, is for more manufacturers to implement remote identification functions. Watching the Horizon documentary, you would never know that an industry-wide solution is under development, and that the vast majority of civilian drones already have the feature implemented.
ADS-B
DJI drones for enterprise use (M200 series and Mavic 2 Enterprise) already feature DJI AirSense, a built-in ADS-B receiver, enhancing airspace safety by automatically providing the operator with real-time information about the position, altitude and velocity of nearby manned aircraft equipped with ADS-B transmitters. AirSense enables safer and more efficient use of airspace, particularly in locations where other manned aircraft may be operating.[
In our Elevating Safety report, DJI suggested a 10-point plan which aims to ensure the world’s skies remain safe in the drone era.[ Just one of these points is a commitment that all new DJI drone models released after January 1, 2020 that weigh more than 250 grams will include AirSense technology. This will be the largest single deployment of ADS-B collision prevention technology to date and sets a new standard by putting professional-grade aviation safety technology in drones available to everyone. This was very briefly referenced in the Horizon programme as, “the biggest manufacturer of drones has recently pledged to install new technology that will warn the operator if they appear to be on a collision course”. However, the programme failed to acknowledge that this initiative is a huge achievement for the industry or to explain its full significance.
Summary
Even though all the above information was provided to the programme’s researcher, and we discussed with the production direct input from DJI, only ADS-B and geofencing were briefly mentioned and the latter, as outlined, in a disparaging light.
We find it, quite frankly, unfair and incredibly biased that a documentary looking at drones does not include a response from DJI, any drone manufacturer or any drone association such as the Drone Manufacturers’ Alliance Europe or ARPAS.
We would welcome the opportunity to work with the BBC on a ‘Drones For Good’ documentary which would seek to go some way in addressing the balance in a currently extremely one-sided, negative media landscape. We also request that next time a BBC unit is working on a drone-related programme, our voice and those of our industry peers be included at length and in detail, so that the programme can fulfill the BBC’s mission to be an impartial, independent, accurate and reliable source of information.
Yours Sincerely,
Dr. Barbara Stelzner Director, Marketing and Corporate Communication’

Its a well written, structured response to the BBC. Its also nice to see after years of not responding or reacting they've finally stuck their head up and fighting back.

They mention the utter b******s that is AirProx in their letter and this in my view is the biggest problem and threat to UK drone use.

Obviously theres not a chance in hell BBC will do any sort of follow up and mention this letter on air. Its too busy with Brexit Project Fear 3.0 and other things to be accountable or fair.
 
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Obviously theres not a chance in hell BBC will do any sort of follow up and mention this letter on air and i dont see any mention online either. Its too busy with Brexit Project Fear 3.0 and other things to be accountable or fair.

RWD's second link was to the BBC's report on the DJI letter.

To give the BBC their due, they do publish most (all?) formal rebuttals they receive online but, like newspaper retractions don't go out of their way to draw attention to them unless it's particularly important. As I type though, this on the second tier of their Technology section, e.g. just two clicks from their News homepage. Pretty high-profile really, given the subject matter.
 
Would be nice if Horizon or Paranoia aired it.

Wonder if anyone has sent it to Points of View (the former programme where people complain about the TV thats now on a channel nobody watches at a time nobody cares about).
 
They mention the utter b******s that is AirProx in their letter and this in my view is the biggest problem and threat to UK drone use.

Any discussion involving drones and AirProx that doesn't mention the joke "Drone ID chart" isn't "fair and balanced", IMHO. Even BALPA admits (and did so on the record in the most recent Commons Committee hearing on drones) that aircraft pilots are quite unlikely to spot a drone outside an aircraft in flight. They did spin it into a probability that there were likely to be more incidents than were being reported though, but even so the only conclusions you can draw are:

1) Many - if not most - drone sightings by pilots are probably not actually drones. AirProx does not even consider the practicalities/probability of a given sighting being a drone and just go with what the pilot said. "Yeah, I saw a drone, pretty sure it was a Spark, while crusing at 38,000ft over the mid-Atlantic" would be given exactly same credence as "It crashed into windscreen while parked on the apron, and I picked up the bits from the tarmac and have them right here!"

2) BALPA is almost certainly right; a lot more incidents of near misses between manned aircraft and drones are not getting reported because pilots are not there to look out of the window and enjoy the view, especially when they are most likely to have a near miss with a drone - e.g. at altitudes usually associated with landing and takeoff.

Point 2 is definitely an issue, but that AirProx doesn't consider the practicalities and probabilities of a given sighting in their reporting and just reports verbatim isn't really very helpful. Sure, that's their remit, but it was one drawn up when near-misses were most likely between two manned pilots who would probably both report the incident and their would be transponder evidence and other things to fall back on. It badly needs an update, and the longer that takes the less credibility AirProx is going to have in the RC community.
 
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RWD's second link was to the BBC's report on the DJI letter.

To give the BBC their due, they do publish most (all?) formal rebuttals they receive online but, like newspaper retractions don't go out of their way to draw attention to them unless it's particularly important. As I type though, this on the second tier of their Technology section, e.g. just two clicks from their News homepage. Pretty high-profile really, given the subject matter.

The problem with DJI's "rebuttal" is that, just like their previous ones, it is entirely free of any actual evidence and just a rather weak attempt to deflect from what they see as bad publicity. They can complain all they want about how the BBC did not use the drone-positive material that they offered, but since it wasn't ever supposed to be a DJI infomercial that wasn't going to happen. If they were serious about this then they could always conduct, or commission, some independent impact testing experiment and modeling, neither of which would be very expensive in comparison to their sUAS revenue, but they would get exactly the same kinds of results and I'm pretty sure that they know that.

And as the BBC response itself said:

"From the outset, and repeatedly during the film, the positive uses of drones and the efforts the industry has taken to make them safe was referred to. The film does not claim that drone technology is unsafe, but rather that it can be used maliciously when in the wrong hands. Indeed, as drone users ourselves, the BBC is well aware of the positive benefits of them when used appropriately."​

Personally I think that DJI's outrage is counterproductive because it likely reinforces the view that they are somehow at fault, and their threat of a formal complaint is just ill-judged posturing - they may well think it's worth complaining since there is nothing to lose, but it won't get them anywhere. DJI's extensive and innovative work in the areas of remote identification, geofencing, collaboration with multiple agencies etc. is what they should be touting, rather than giving the impression that they are burying their corporate head in the sand and screaming that their drones are completely safe which, ironically, is not what they are actually doing at all.
 
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