Beach city manned aircraft flying below 500ft over beach. Do I have any recourse?

[Theoriginalgregtoo]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to drones. I live in a beach city, and have been doing my damnedest to adhere to the FAA rules and regulations. One problem I've been having where I live is that both helicopters and small two person fixed wing aircraft like to fly low (I'd estimate in the 300 ft AGL range). I've had a couple of instances recently where I've had to quickly descend because of this, and I'm extremely nervous to cause I know I'm the lowest on the totem pole. I'd understand if this was just over open water, but it's also occurred over land. I'm wondering if, like I suspect, they're in the wrong, and if they are, do I have any recourse in reporting them to the FAA? Not trying to be a jerk at all, but it does no good unless both of us are sticking to the safety rules. Appreciate any advice.

 

[GFields]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to drones. I live in a beach city, and have been doing my damnedest to adhere to the FAA rules and regulations. One problem I've been having where I live is that both helicopters and small two person fixed wing aircraft like to fly low (I'd estimate in the 300 ft AGL range). I've had a couple of instances recently where I've had to quickly descend because of this, and I'm extremely nervous to cause I know I'm the lowest on the totem pole. I'd understand if this was just over open water, but it's also occurred over land. I'm wondering if, like I suspect, they're in the wrong, and if they are, do I have any recourse in reporting them to the FAA? Not trying to be a jerk at all, but it does no good unless both of us are sticking to the safety rules. Appreciate any advice.

Welcome to the forum. As a general rule manned aircraft flies above 500' AGL. However, there are exceptions and with appropriate clearance, they can. Same (and more often) with helicopters. Whatever the case, sUSA Pilots MUST always yield to manned aircraft.

 

[Vic Moss]

The answer you're looking for is found 14 CFR 91.119.

"§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:


(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and
(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section."

You can find that here: Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Theoriginalgregtoo]

Welcome to the forum. As a general rule manned aircraft flies above 500' AGL. However, there are exceptions and with appropriate clearance, they can. Same (and more often) with helicopters. Whatever the case, sUSA Pilots MUST always yield to manned aircraft.

Thank you for the welcome, it looks like a pretty cool community. I also thank you for the information. Just out of curiosity, could you give me some idea as to what types of exceptions there are? Obviously police helicopters seem like they'd get a pass, but what about private aircraft?

 

[Theoriginalgregtoo]

The answer you're looking for is found 14 CFR 91.119.

"§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:


(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and
(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section."

You can find that here: Federal Register :: Request Access

Thank you, I really appreciate the thorough breakdown.

 

[GFields]

Thank you for the welcome, it looks like a pretty cool community. I also thank you for the information. Just out of curiosity, could you give me some idea as to what types of exceptions there are? Obviously police helicopters seem like they'd get a pass, but what about private aircraft?

Refer to post #3

 

[FLDave]

If you suspect an infraction the your recourse is to identify the aircraft by tail number and report all details to the FAA, most likely by phone call. It is up to the FAA to investigate if they believe there was an infraction.

 

[Chip]

In this video, Nevada private pilot, Trent Palmer, explains what happened to him after someone phoned in a complaint to the FAA about a low altitude flight captured on an outdoor surveillance camera.

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[MAvic_South_Oz]

Maybe check with FAA on their interpretation for the rules of flight for general aircraft for the area (per post #3).
A 'beach city' certainly sounds like it would constitute a congested area.

Another thing to check is NOTAMS to see if anyone has got specific permission to fly outside these.
I think anyone in the US can access NOTAMS for various regions / areas.

 

[Aerophile]

One problem I've been having where I live is that both helicopters and small two person fixed wing aircraft like to fly low (I'd estimate in the 300 ft AGL range).

Most people on the ground have no idea whatsoever how high aircraft are when flying overhead. Unless you have a lot of experience eyeballing aircraft flying by at various known altitudes, it is extremely likely that your estimate of 300' is simply wrong (and possibly wrong by a wide margin).

 

[BobaFut]

If the aircraft are using ADSB (not necessarily a given), they probably show up in FlightRadar24 and it will tell you just how high or low they are actually flying. I always have FlightRadar24 open on my tablet while I'm flying, unless I'm way out in the boonies, as it can often tell you at a glance if you need to take action or not.

 

[Cymruflyer]

If you are correct that this aircraft was flying at 300ft and directly above people on the beach, then you would only be able to see the underbelly of that fixed wing aircraft. If you can take a photo of this aircraft in that position above you, assuming you were also on the beach, the camera exif data will show what your lens was in focal length, if it was a zoom lens and it can then be determined from the size of the wing width, what height that aircraft was.

If you were seeing the aircraft from the side and it was out over open water, then it was quiet possibly flying at a legal altitude, as long as they were at least 500ft to the side of any person or structure, as they flew past, even if they were at 300ft AGL.. If the aircraft was at 300ft then you should be able to read the N-number on the fuselage. If it was too small to see then it may well be higher or further away than you thought.

If you happen to be flying there again and a manned aircraft is again doing what you think it is, flying too low and close, then quickly turn your drone to the aircraft and take a photo of it to show its flight direction to you and its altitude in relation to yours, then quickly bring your drone down, for safety's sake. That way you will be able to see the aircraft's position in relation to the horizon and can determine if it was at, above or below the horizon. If it was dead on the horizon, then it would have been at your altitude or lower.

If the aircraft in the photo you take, was looking like it was above the horizon, then it was higher than your altitude, when you took the photo. I was not there and therefore can't say you assumed correctly or not, but it may well be that the aircraft was high and off to one side more than you had thought it was. If, however, you saw the underbelly as it flew over the top of you, then it was flying right above you and if it was lower than 500ft then the pilot might have "som splainin to dooo" to the FAA.

 

[JoelP]

I live near the foothills east is San Jose. When hiking up those foothills it is not uncommon to see aircraft flying just above the high tension lines as they clear the ridge, certainly less than 500 ft AGL.

I asked a friend who is a a commercial instructor if that is legal. She told me that it is. In that case they are flying an approach to the Class D Reid Hillview airport and are trying to stay under the Class C airspace of San Jose that overlies the Class D. Apparently that makes it legal. It is important to understand the configuration of the airspace that you are in to anticipate such possibilities.

 

[PepperBird]

Thank you for the welcome, it looks like a pretty cool community. I also thank you for the information. Just out of curiosity, could you give me some idea as to what types of exceptions there are? Obviously police helicopters seem like they'd get a pass, but what about private aircraft?

The best rule of thumb is to ALWAYS give way to manned aircraft, as you are not aware of what exemptions they are flying under!

 

[4 inch pistons]

My guess is they are flying tourists for the view if it happens a lot. If that’s the case then you are fighting city hall. Again that’s a guess.

 

[Vic Moss]

The best rule of thumb is to ALWAYS give way to manned aircraft, as you are not aware of what exemptions they are flying under!

It's not just "best rule of thumb", it's federal law.

14 CFR § 107.37 - Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Paul Stocum]

Because of aircraft size by comparison, a small 2 seater will seem lower at height say 500’. While my drone seems much higher at 200’. But that may just me and my paranoia. I live very near some urban small mountains that we occasionally hike to the top. I suspect from the top some of these small aircraft are much less than 400’ from the mountain top as they do a fly by.

If you look real close in opening shot of this video, you can see my house . Lone Mountain View.

 

[NorthEastJohn]

if this is a frequent occurrence and you want to confirm/identify Altitude of the Aircraft, use this link, type in the nearest airport to get map orientation to your location. click on the plane on the map as it is going over your location and see the actual altitude. I think you are going to find it is higher than you think. ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live.

 

[Parkerjh]

I've used to get freaked out over what I thought were low planes and helicopters. At 300', EVERYONE in surrounding area would be freaking out. When I finally paid premium subscription for Flight Aware to look at actual aircraft altitudes, I was so surprised. Helicopters that I had been estimating at 500' were actually at 1,000' or more. Planes were actually higher. The scale of size compared to a drone makes it really difficult to properly estimate. I still am very cautious and take notice but I doubt they are as low as you think.

 

[GregS]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to drones. I live in a beach city, and have been doing my damnedest to adhere to the FAA rules and regulations. One problem I've been having where I live is that both helicopters and small two person fixed wing aircraft like to fly low (I'd estimate in the 300 ft AGL range). I've had a couple of instances recently where I've had to quickly descend because of this, and I'm extremely nervous to cause I know I'm the lowest on the totem pole. I'd understand if this was just over open water, but it's also occurred over land. I'm wondering if, like I suspect, they're in the wrong, and if they are, do I have any recourse in reporting them to the FAA? Not trying to be a jerk at all, but it does no good unless both of us are sticking to the safety rules. Appreciate any advice.

I spend winters on the beach close to a Naval Air Station. Helos fly by all the time well below 500'. I only fly VLOS so I see and hear them coming and descend until they pass.
It is never a problem.