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Can we convince DJI to enable d-log + zoom at same time?

Zac Johnson

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I recently did a cinematic video with my air 2s where every clip was shot with about 1.3-1.4x zoom. I really like the field of view and compressed look you can get, similar to m2p hq mode.
What I don't like is the normal colour profile xP ... actually, it's not as bad as I thought it would be, makes nice colours, can still be graded a bit but the the blacks look pretty bad and obviously, well, d-log is just better.
To my surprise, the zoom appears to be completely lossless up to a certain point, at about 1.4x zoom it's roughly the same fov as 5.4k cropped to 4k and I can't distinguish the difference between the two.
Well I did a bit of research and learned about sensor cropping. Today I noticed another post on here that pretty much expresses also my experience with the zoom:
"I currently have an Air 2s and find I can digitally zoom 2X without much loss of video quality. I like to do this when tracking my kids. The Air 2s has 5472 pixels horizontally to deal with, meaning the 4k video is nicely oversampled until about a 1.4X digital zoom. Digitally zooming further, DJI claims to use algorithmic wizardry to make it look better than a crop from a 5.4k shot".
Imagine if we could have d-log AND zoom, like a dynamic hq mode! Is this too much to ask for? Would it make the air 2s too good and make the m2p 100% redundant and as such DJI would never do it (like putting adjustable aperture on a future air 3s)?

My video:
 
I am wondering.. since you need to post process the d-log footage, could you not simply do the “zoom” in your editor? I may be missing your point.
I'm still learning about how this all works but from what I understand, when you shoot 4k the actual size of 4k does not use the whole sensor as 20mp is much bigger than 4k.... DJI has some way to use the extra pixels to "over sample" the image. So when you zoom (in camera), to a point, the camera is using extra pixels from the "unused" parts of the sensor so improve the quality of the image. If you just crop th 4k image in post to achieve the same level of zoom, it is only using the pixels you have recorded, not extra ones from the full sensor.
If you shoot 5.4k and then crop to 4k it looks worse than the 4k shot in 4k. In fact, it looks about the same as 1.4x zoom.
4k is much easier to work with. Yes I suppose if you have no problem editing 5.4k just cropping it in post will give you a similar look to 1.4x zoom but I personally still think the in camera zoom looks cleaner than the cropped 5.4k.

Another probably more simple way to put it (big disclaimer I'm no expert!) is that when you crop in post you're just zooming in on the pixels that are there in the recorded image thus losing detail, however, when you zoom in camera DJI's algorithm or whatever is adding unused pixels from the rest of the sensor thus keeping some detail (to a point).
 
Thank you for the analysis. It is very technical, thankfully we have some folks in this forum who can help me understand the finer points. Best!
 
I recently did a cinematic video with my air 2s where every clip was shot with about 1.3-1.4x zoom. I really like the field of view and compressed look you can get, similar to m2p hq mode.
What I don't like is the normal colour profile xP ... actually, it's not as bad as I thought it would be, makes nice colours, can still be graded a bit but the the blacks look pretty bad and obviously, well, d-log is just better.
To my surprise, the zoom appears to be completely lossless up to a certain point, at about 1.4x zoom it's roughly the same fov as 5.4k cropped to 4k and I can't distinguish the difference between the two.
Well I did a bit of research and learned about sensor cropping. Today I noticed another post on here that pretty much expresses also my experience with the zoom:
"I currently have an Air 2s and find I can digitally zoom 2X without much loss of video quality. I like to do this when tracking my kids. The Air 2s has 5472 pixels horizontally to deal with, meaning the 4k video is nicely oversampled until about a 1.4X digital zoom. Digitally zooming further, DJI claims to use algorithmic wizardry to make it look better than a crop from a 5.4k shot".
Imagine if we could have d-log AND zoom, like a dynamic hq mode! Is this too much to ask for? Would it make the air 2s too good and make the m2p 100% redundant and as such DJI would never do it (like putting adjustable aperture on a future air 3s)?

My video:
Good news, it is already possible ! Select 4k in 48/50/60fps mode with D-log. You'll get a nice 32mm FOV (Full frame equivalent) with no oversampling. It is cropping in the sensor like the HQ mode of the M2P, to be able to read the pixels at the requested speed.
The only downside is that it can produce some visible moiré on certains rooftops tile patterns or cobbled areas but it's no big deal imho.

Don't worry to put a 50fps video in a 25fps timeline while editing, your software will handle it. Just edit and export as usual. (also 24/48 or 30/60fps are possible)

Another thing to try : 2.8X Zoom in FHD resolution at 24/25/30fps for a 63mm FOV. Theoretically, it is also no oversampling, but ofc, it's only normal colour mode, and FullHD is such a low res when you get used to 5.4K !
 
Thanks yeh I might give 48fps a go, I tried 60fps before and I don't know why but in my eyes the image quality just looks way better at 24fps... perhaps it's just in low light situations.
 
Thanks yeh I might give 48fps a go, I tried 60fps before and I don't know why but in my eyes the image quality just looks way better at 24fps... perhaps it's just in low light situations.
I tested in daytime but not in low light. Maybe i should try next time!

Also found a process that really increase video quality with Topaz Video Enhance AI, it's called Artemis Dehalo v1.
First time i tried on a 2X Zoom 4k footage from my Air2s i couldn't believe my eyes. The AI is mindblowing. It really added details but whitout turning in a oversharpened look. My 2X zoom 4k normal color mode footage became totally usable (and i really hate the normal colour mode for it's aggressive sharpness). The process is very heavy on CPU/GPU resources and can take some time depending of your computer specs.

I plan to do a YT comparison video of theses different crop modes and also add Artemis Dehalo processed samples.



Here is a Air2S crop modes chart by french Ytuber Paladrone that can help you.

edit: translated chart in english
 

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I tested in daytime but not in low light. Maybe i should try next time!

Also found a process that really increase video quality with Topaz Video Enhance AI, it's called Artemis Dehalo v1.
First time i tried on a 2X Zoom 4k footage from my Air2s i couldn't believe my eyes. The AI is mindblowing. It really added details but whitout turning in a oversharpened look. My 2X zoom 4k normal color mode footage became totally usable (and i really hate the normal colour mode for it's aggressive sharpness). The process is very heavy on CPU/GPU resources and can take some time depending of your computer specs.

I plan to do a YT comparison video of theses different crop modes and also add Artemis Dehalo processed samples.



Here is a Air2S crop modes chart by Paladrone that can help you.
thanks for the chart. you should upload a video of your air 2s footage with topaz, sounds really interesting.

yes normal colour profile is quite bad, it's not too bad in well lit situations but it destroys the blacks and makes the image look quite cheap. If you use premiere, add the faded film filter and it'll soften up the blacks a bit. also add an adjustment layer and use gaussian blur with about 15% opacity and 10% blur (adjust to your preference) it will soften the image.

then there's neat video (gotta pay for it) which I haven't used but really improves dji images which are quite noisy even with low iso.

I also recently purchased some professionally made luts/presets CINE COLLECTION DJI AIR 2S LUTs PACK
I don't know what these guys use to make their luts but they're on a whole other level, can bring out colours and highlights in places of the image I could never achieve myself and you can really stretch the colours.

this video is using the spectrumgrades cinematric presets and that gaussian blur trick.
the thing is some of the clips in that video their original raw video the image is so dark you almost can't see anything (because I wouldn't go above 100 iso) but dlog and good presets (or mad colour grading skills) just shows how much more powerful dlog is, I just wish we could have zoom AND dlog :D

and this video I shot in 1.4x zoom
took me aaaages to edit cause I was never satisfied with the image and had trouble with the blacks looking way more black than they should have, really frustrating the normal colour profile. though I think it still looks pretty good if you're not too fussy.

something else I noticed recently too is that you can crop 4k image down quite alot and still keep alot of image quality. I was expecting it to be much worse than cropping down 5k but really didn't notice a big difference to be honest.
 
thanks for the chart. you should upload a video of your air 2s footage with topaz, sounds really interesting.

yes normal colour profile is quite bad, it's not too bad in well lit situations but it destroys the blacks and makes the image look quite cheap. If you use premiere, add the faded film filter and it'll soften up the blacks a bit. also add an adjustment layer and use gaussian blur with about 15% opacity and 10% blur (adjust to your preference) it will soften the image.

then there's neat video (gotta pay for it) which I haven't used but really improves dji images which are quite noisy even with low iso.

I also recently purchased some professionally made luts/presets CINE COLLECTION DJI AIR 2S LUTs PACK
I don't know what these guys use to make their luts but they're on a whole other level, can bring out colours and highlights in places of the image I could never achieve myself and you can really stretch the colours.

this video is using the spectrumgrades cinematric presets and that gaussian blur trick.
the thing is some of the clips in that video their original raw video the image is so dark you almost can't see anything (because I wouldn't go above 100 iso) but dlog and good presets (or mad colour grading skills) just shows how much more powerful dlog is, I just wish we could have zoom AND dlog :D

and this video I shot in 1.4x zoom
took me aaaages to edit cause I was never satisfied with the image and had trouble with the blacks looking way more black than they should have, really frustrating the normal colour profile. though I think it still looks pretty good if you're not too fussy.

something else I noticed recently too is that you can crop 4k image down quite alot and still keep alot of image quality. I was expecting it to be much worse than cropping down 5k but really didn't notice a big difference to be honest.
Awesome mate, you nailed it with the subtle gaussian blur on the 1st video. I remember using that trick on Resolve for my Mini 2 last year, to soften the horrible oversharpened 4k output.

Another plugin i used, was Dehancer OFX and FilmConvert Nitrate, reducing the sharpness while adding little film grain to recover some texture in the image. Really good plugins, but I don't need them anymore with the fantastic D-Log mode of the Air2S !
Here is an example of Mini2 footage processed and graded with Dehancer OFX :


Don't forget to retry 4k 50/60fps Dlog in daytime, it's basically X1.4 Zoom with Dlog quality! But you're right, it can be a problem in low light situation because you have to increase shutter speed to go 48/50/60fps (and then raise iso) to reach same exposure level.

Your LUTs looks very good btw. Well balanced and really in the mood of your video :)
Would love to try this pack.

And yes, 4k is still plenty of resolution to crop in. I took the habit to shoot 5.4k with the A2S just cause it can, but honestly, i think 4k is sufficient 90% of the time.
However, when you need to crop for some strong Dolly zoom/ parrallax effect, 5.4k is such a delight :D
I edited some agressive 5.4k crops in my last video and it handled like a champ :

 

That air 2s video is great, really cool editing and shifting between the music, I like the style.

I'll give 5.4k another chance but but definitely 4k48p first. I don't know why I just feel 4k looks better, maybe 5k looks too detailed to me? Can't quite put my finger on it. I used to use 5k all the time and crop in hard, I have a couple videos doing that and you can fully rotate the frame 360deg and create some interesting angles. But 4k just looks more natural to me.

Dehancer looks cool, specifically interested in the bloom and halation effects. Bit pricy for me though :p I might buy neat video one day.
 
That air 2s video is great, really cool editing and shifting between the music, I like the style.

I'll give 5.4k another chance but but definitely 4k48p first. I don't know why I just feel 4k looks better, maybe 5k looks too detailed to me? Can't quite put my finger on it. I used to use 5k all the time and crop in hard, I have a couple videos doing that and you can fully rotate the frame 360deg and create some interesting angles. But 4k just looks more natural to me.

Dehancer looks cool, specifically interested in the bloom and halation effects. Bit pricy for me though :p I might buy neat video one day.
🙏 Thanks

Yes maybe 5.4k is too much details for your taste, I guess it also depend on the monitor size and resolution you're watching on.

If I remember you can get a free trial for Dehancer. Also on version 17, Davinci Resolve added similar features. (Halation, grain and glow in the Resolve FX Light panel).
 
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