Can you?? Fly to 5000 feet??

[Bad Santa]

I think the safety is achieved by airspace reservation (e.g. by a NOTAM). As far as I know, that is how the air control organizations treat scientific UAS flights (those that do not fit to open category) here (Finland).

^^^^^^ Someone that understands how it works.

 

[Bad Santa]

There's no need to wonder, it's not unclear, nor is it a can of worms. It's spelled out in the regulations, has been posted here many times, and is easy to Google if you so desire.

In summary, it says you must be able to see the drone with no visual aid other than prescribed glasses well enough to determine it's attitude, orientation, and direction of movement at all times. This includes whether it is moving toward or away from you.

In practice, this amounts to 1000-2000ft depending on individual visual acuity. The limit of being able to discern attitude is far shorter than the limit at which one can say they see a spec in the sky.

The problem with VLOS is not a fuzzy definition, it's that people don't like it. Me among them. I break that rule all the time, mostly flying FPV without an observer. I have absolutely no concern the FAA is coming to my door, as there's no risk to anyone. Whenever there is, I have a VO.

Cameras on drones changed the situation w.r.t. VLOS, and the FAA is working on it. Vic posts about it now and then. More flexibility is coming, at a typical government glacial pace.

So, can you maintain VLOS as defined in the regs with a 5000ft AGL flight? No, you will not.

Hence the light ring I want to include with the flight.
I maintain that I will be able to see the 4 foot diameter light ring at that distance, if I build it correctly.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I think the safety is achieved by airspace reservation (e.g. by a NOTAM). As far as I know, that is how the air control organizations treat scientific UAS flights (those that do not fit to open category) here (Finland).

That's part of it. It depends on being able to find the other aircraft in the sky as well.

If the safety concerns were satisfied with a NOTAM, then that's all we'd need to approve the flight, right?

 

[Droning on and on...]

Hence the light ring I want to include with the flight.
I maintain that I will be able to see the 4 foot diameter light ring at that distance, if I build it correctly.

And how will you determine orientation (compass direction) while hovering strictly by VLOS? The requirements do not allow for substituting telemetry.

Now, you may get that waived, but then if you do there's probably no need for your light ring.

You know, doing this at night might be easier to get approval for, as 1-mile strobes are easy to get, and it would solve the visibility issue for other pilots.

 

[Bad Santa]

And how will you determine orientation (compass direction) while hovering strictly by VLOS? The requirements do not allow for substituting telemetry.

Now, you may get that waived, but then if you do there's probably no need for your light ring.

You know, doing this at night might be easier to get approval for, as 1-mile strobes are easy to get, and it would solve the visibility issue for other pilots.

Doing it at night defeats the purpose.
The light ring will be fitted with red on one side, green on the other.
It also serves a secondary purpose to the flight.
The drone will not be moving in any direction other than straight up and straight down so that's really not a concern anyhow.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Doing it at night defeats the purpose.
The light ring will be fitted with red on one side, green on the other.
It also serves a secondary purpose to the flight.
The drone will not be moving in any direction other than straight up and straight down so that's really not a concern anyhow.

For the FAA it is.

They will be concerned with maneuverability for safety reasons, not performance of your mission. Will the drone be able to move in all directions with sufficient performance to avoid a collision? That's what they're going to want to know.

A mass suspended from the drone will alter it's flight dynamics. The FAA is going to want to know how. A 4ft diameter object no matter how "sparse" will also catch wind, especially if you're staying on a vertical plumbline, further affecting flight dynamics.

The FAA will want to know all about this, what sort of testing you've done, what sort of training the pilot has in operating the aircraft with these performance characteristics and impact of the load.

All of this is important for what I hope are obvious reasons.

 

[Bad Santa]

For the FAA it is.

They will be concerned with maneuverability for safety reasons, not performance of your mission. Will the drone be able to move in all directions with sufficient performance to avoid a collision? That's what they're going to want to know.

A mass suspended from the drone will alter it's flight dynamics. The FAA is going to want to know how. A 4ft diameter object no matter how "sparse" will also catch wind, especially if you're staying on a vertical plumbline, further affecting flight dynamics.

The FAA will want to know all about this, what sort of testing you've done, what sort of training the pilot has in operating the aircraft with these performance characteristics and impact of the load.

All of this is important for what I hope are obvious reasons.

You really seem to know about what the FAA wants.

I should tell my FAA contact to check with you first.

 

[Droning on and on...]

You really seem to know about what the FAA wants.

I should tell my FAA contact to check with you first.

No, I don't know. Just opinion.

 

[MS Coast]

Flying near mountains in California can be very interesting.
I once was flying a Bonanza in the Owen’s Valley at about 5000 feet AGL and entered the updraft area of a lenticular cloud formation above me. Up I went! I pulled power but kept the engine at low power to keep it warm, slowed to gear speed, dropped the gear, and dropped the nose. Minimal power, high drag and I STILL was ascending - just at a reduced rate. A drone at that altitude under these conditions would truly be a quick “fly away” and I’m not sure how you on the ground would monitor the sudden changes.
Shortly after the above, I entered the accompanying downdraft area and reconfigured the aircraft for max climb. I finished the flight a wiser and more humble pilot and very glad to be back on Terra Firma.

With a near perpendicular wind, mountains form huge standing waves, topped by lenticulars. I've flown gliders in small waves in the eastern US. The up side is smooth as silk, but the down side the turbulence on the downwind side of the mountains is awful. All the glider altitude records have been set in wave. The current absolute altitude record is just over 74,000, set in El Calafate, Argentina.

 

[Bad Santa]

With a near perpendicular wind, mountains form huge standing waves, topped by lenticulars. I've flown gliders in small waves in the eastern US. The up side is smooth as silk, but the down side the turbulence on the downwind side of the mountains is awful. All the glider altitude records have been set in wave. The current absolute altitude record is just over 74,000, set in El Calafate, Argentina.

A while back I was able to witness some paragliders taking off from the top of a ridge. They would gear up and walk down a small slope to catch some wind. Once their chute filled with air they lifted off. The "cliff" as somewhere around 500 feet up.
From there they would go up high enough to be not more than a dot in the sky.
A few miles down the coast you could see them coming in to touch the rooftops of the houses along the beach. Then they'd turn just a little and catch another lift and shoot back up in the sky.
I asked one of the operators how log they could maintain flight and his reply was "as long as there's more than a 5mph wind from the west they could stay up forever".
It was pretty cool to watch.

 

[eEridani]

what drone that has the battery capability to fly that high and back on a single charge.

Apparently many - just look at the logs from some of the help requests posted over in Crash & Recovery ... lol.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Most of us morally do not think it acceptable to put others at risk like this, no matter how unlikely.

As surprising as it is, incredibly there are others that do.

Then you don't have a car?

No camera drone has killed anyone in the world.

Unless you are doing it in front of an airport runway, it won't happen, and if it happens, it won't bring down the plane, specially under 1 Kg. The same as you don't drive your car through the pedestrians, you won't ram random people with your drone or put it on a collision path with a plane.

 

[MARK (LI)]

I think the safety is achieved by airspace reservation (e.g. by a NOTAM). As far as I know, that is how the air control organizations treat scientific UAS flights (those that do not fit to open category) here (Finland).

Here in the US a NOTAM does not reserve airspace, nor does it absolve a UAS operator from his obligation to defer to and not interfere with a manned aircraft

 

[bmwbob]

I know on my DJI Air 2 tops out at 1600 feet as stated in the settings. I flew up a mountain that was over 1600 feet and it stopped.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Then you don't have a car?

Irrelevant. Just like for drones, there are rules for operating cars. Some of those rules are violated all the time because it's without discernable risk. Others are faithfully followed because the risk is obviously unacceptable.

No camera drone has killed anyone in the world.

If almost everyone flew them every day several times a day there would be plenty. A car is a poor analogy to the point of being useless.

Unless you are doing it in front of an airport runway, it won't happen, and if it happens, it won't bring down the plane, specially under 1 Kg. The same as you don't drive your car through the pedestrians, you won't ram random people with your drone or put it on a collision path with a plane.

Are you saying there is no risk of catastrophe should a jet ingest a drone in an engine?

 

[MARK (LI)]

Are you saying there is no risk of catastrophe should a jet ingest a drone in an engine?

Or slam into a windshield of a plane or helicopter causing the pilot to react in a way in which he loses full control of the manned aircraft?

 

[Bad Santa]

Or slam into a windshield of a plane or helicopter causing the pilot to react in a way in which he loses full control of the manned aircraft?

Any pilot that loses control of an aircraft because of a windshield strike (assuming nothing catastrophic like decompression) shouldn't be a pilot. One of the first lessons is how to handle a loss of power, AKA emergency situation.

 

[MARK (LI)]

You don't typically lose power with a windshield hit....the damage is more like this

 

[Bad Santa]

Wow, that drone had blood.

 

[MARK (LI)]

Actually that was from a nice soft bird...this is what a drone did to the sheet metal of a plane