Can you help me force Port Canaveral Florida to allow drones as they currently violate Florida laws

[sancap]

I am actually happy there is a restricted zone and the need to apply for a permit to fly areas of Port Canaveral and within the limits of the CPA.

With all the wanna be drone operators who do not know the difference between a Bus Stop and an F-Stop flying around the campground (Jetty Park), cruise ships and the Submarine base it would be non stop drones.

Thank you for some common sense rules.

 

[BigAl07]

I am actually happy there is a restricted zone and the need to apply for a permit to fly areas of Port Canaveral and within the limits of the CPA.

With all the wanna be drone operators who do not know the difference between a Bus Stop and an F-Stop flying around the campground (Jetty Park), cruise ships and the Submarine base it would be non stop drones.

Thank you for some common sense rules.

I whole heartedly AGREE! I think that's an excellent application of "Drone Restrictions".

 

[DoomMeister]

Fortunately there is a gap between Patrick Spaceforce Base and Cape Canaveral where you can fly.
View attachment 145985View attachment 145986View attachment 145987View attachment 145988

I saw that looking at Aloft and the sectional charts, but that is south of CPA isn’t it? Do they have ample public parking along the beach to allow access for launch and recovery on the beach?

 

[Deleted member 93449]

I saw that looking at Aloft and the sectional charts, but that is south of CPA isn’t it? Do they have ample public parking along the beach to allow access for launch and recovery on the beach?

There is paid public park alone the beach. If you go down Marion by where Ron Jon’s is located there is public park. If that is full go down Marion and make the first left turn and about two blocks down is another entrance to the beach with paid public parking.

 

[TomKennelly]

Have you applied using the online form?

Why should I apply when, according to Florida Statue 330.41, the Port is not allow to institute drone rules.

 

[TomKennelly]

I live in Cocoa Beach and have been to the Port on numerous occasions. According to AirMap the area from 528 north and east of A1A is a no fly zone with no authorization to fly starting at the surface.

As pointed out by another poster not all of the Port is covered by a no fly zone. There is KXMR which has a class D airspace. According to the FAA chart supplement the tower is closed on the weekend and holidays: TOWER 118.625 143.15 239.05 (No specific work hrs Mon–Fri, clsd Sat, Sun and hol)

Additionally the chart supplement notes that the airspace becomes class G when: AIRSPACE: CLASS D svc by NOTAM; other times CLASS G

Does AirMap take into account time and date? Probably not.

 

[TomKennelly]

Afraid not.

Wow... I hadn't even looked at the Altitude grids for that area and that's a LOT of red. . . .

@TomKennelly have you looked at the FAA UAS Map for that area? It's the red circle with all the (0) squared encompassing the black pin I placed. That's where you're wanting to fly.
View attachment 145979

See response to 2edgesword where I reference the FAA chart supplement for KXMR. KXMR becomes class G at certain times thereby making drone flying in the Port allowable.

Let me say at this point I would welcome being proved wrong or making my endeavor to get the drone rule at the Port removed, moot.

 

[TomKennelly]

Even if you got this changed to your liking, there is very little area where you would legally be able to fly a drone as a recreational pilot. Even as a 107 pilot you would have to have a job scheduled and have to apply for clearance through the FAA DroneZone. With two Space Force Bases with 0 altitude grids getting clearance would take a lot of circus dog training with all the hoops you would be jumping through.

The airspace that covers the Port is associated with KXMR. If you look at the chart supplement for KXMR you will find the tower is closed on the weekend and the airspace reverts to class G. The bottom line is that if you fly when the airspace is class G there is no need to use the DroneZone, right?

Please verify this for me. I don't want to be spouting misinformation.

 

[TomKennelly]

As pointed out by another poster not all of the Port is covered by a no fly zone. There is KXMR which has a class D airspace. According to the FAA chart supplement the tower is closed on the weekend and holidays: TOWER 118.625 143.15 239.05 (No specific work hrs Mon–Fri, clsd Sat, Sun and hol)

Additionally the chart supplement notes that the airspace becomes class G when: AIRSPACE: CLASS D svc by NOTAM; other times CLASS G

Does AirMap take into account time and date? Probably not.

Link to the FAA chart supplement for KXMR. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/fli...search/results/?cycle=2203&ident=kxmr&navaid=

 

[sancap]

Good luck with your endeavor, you may want to contact @Vic Moss and @Ryan J. Latouratte

​

 

[DoomMeister]

When you look at the airspace covered by KXMR you will notice the NSUFR associated with it. Even if this reverts to Class G airspace drones are still restricted from flight there just like most other DOJ and DOD facilities. It stands for National Security UAS Flight Restrictions. Here is more information on the subject.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-establishes-restrictions-drone-operations-over-doj-and-dod-facilities

 

[TomKennelly]

I am actually happy there is a restricted zone and the need to apply for a permit to fly areas of Port Canaveral and within the limits of the CPA.

With all the wanna be drone operators who do not know the difference between a Bus Stop and an F-Stop flying around the campground (Jetty Park), cruise ships and the Submarine base it would be non stop drones.

Thank you for some common sense rules.

View attachment 146055

When you look at the airspace covered by KXMR you will notice the NSUFR associated with it. Even if this reverts to Class G airspace drones are still restricted from flight there just like most other DOJ and DOD facilities. It stands for National Security UAS Flight Restrictions. Here is more information on the subject.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-establishes-restrictions-drone-operations-over-doj-and-dod-facilities

I don't think that is the case. Here is a view from skyvector.com and notice the part in green highlighter is only associated with KXMR class D airspace.

 

[DoomMeister]

I don't think that is the case. Here is a view from skyvector.com and notice the part in green highlighter is only associated with KXMR class D airspace.

View attachment 146071

Pi was only referring to the airspace associated with KXMR as it reverting to Class G airspace has nothing to do with the NSUFR that prohibits drone flight in its airspace. There is a lot of water under its airspace where it would also be illegal to launch/land from a boat or fly into.

I agree that it is a shame that sites like this are so strict, but all you have to do is browse through YouTube, Vimeo, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. to see where drones are flying out both day and
night and over flying the ships as they enter and exit the port. I’m actually surprised they haven’t pulled a Disney and put a permanent TFR over the area.

 

[lehidave]

Fortunately there is a gap between Patrick Spaceforce Base and Cape Canaveral where you can fly.
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I fly in the gap as well. I have flown into the area once by the port taking off from outside the area. If you do there are plenty of places to lift off from outside. It is a very busy area anyway with rockets, heli, ships and subs. To each is own but not for me.

 

[Heavydpj]

I started a GoFundMe, [Link removed by ADMIN due to Community Guideline #11]

to obtain funding to sue Port Canaveral (CPA) to follow Florida Statute 330.41 which prohibits political subdivisions, like CPA, from enacting their own drone rules.

Florida Statue 330.41 3(b) vests drone regulation in the state and not political subdivisions (e.g. cities, counties, ports). CPA has stubbornly refused to follow the law claiming the Port is private property. According to Florida Statute 315.11 the Port is public property but the Port won't hear of it even though the Port used this statute in a lawsuit in the 1990's.

Sorry mate. You're barking up the wrong tree. The CPD is a special district created by the State of FL in 1953. As such it has the authorities and powers granted to it by the state of FL. Their latest charter was signed into law in 2014.

If you read it, you will note the following:

-"Section 3. The authority has the power to exercise control over Port Canaveral, and any and all parts thereof; ... and to enact, adopt, and establish rules and regulations for the complete exercise of jurisdiction and control over all of said lands and waters of Port Canaveral within the Port District."

- "Section 5. The authority has the power to exercise such police powers as the Port Authority shall determine to be necessary for the effective control, regulation, and protection of Port Canaveral and for the effective exercise of jurisdiction over said port."

330.41 notes:
- "(c) This subsection does not limit the authority of a local government to enact or enforce local ordinances relating to nuisances, voyeurism, harassment, reckless endangerment, property damage, or other illegal acts arising from the use of unmanned aircraft systems if such laws or ordinances are not specifically related to the use of an unmanned aircraft system for those illegal acts."

Add that to the list of airspace issues, and you're gonna lose.

 

[TomKennelly]

Sorry mate. You're barking up the wrong tree. The CPD is a special district created by the State of FL in 1953. As such it has the authorities and powers granted to it by the state of FL. Their latest charter was signed into law in 2014.

If you read it, you will note the following:

-"Section 3. The authority has the power to exercise control over Port Canaveral, and any and all parts thereof; ... and to enact, adopt, and establish rules and regulations for the complete exercise of jurisdiction and control over all of said lands and waters of Port Canaveral within the Port District."

- "Section 5. The authority has the power to exercise such police powers as the Port Authority shall determine to be necessary for the effective control, regulation, and protection of Port Canaveral and for the effective exercise of jurisdiction over said port."

330.41 notes:
- "(c) This subsection does not limit the authority of a local government to enact or enforce local ordinances relating to nuisances, voyeurism, harassment, reckless endangerment, property damage, or other illegal acts arising from the use of unmanned aircraft systems if such laws or ordinances are not specifically related to the use of an unmanned aircraft system for those illegal acts."

Add that to the list of airspace issues, and you're gonna lose.

 

[TomKennelly]

I guess you did not follow my logic. CPD cannot according to 330.41 3(b) make up rules about drones with the exception 330.41 3(c). CPD is forbidden by state law from the drone rules they have enacted. CPD states in their tariff that they are a political subdivision of the state of Florida and therefore 330.41 3(b) applies directly to CPD and the state law preempts CPD rules. I wonder if you don't understate state preemption?

With regard to airspace there was much discussion about it previously where I proved that airspace restrictions do not prevent flying in CPD area from and FAA perspective. The airspace that is most relevant is KXMR which, according the the FAA Chart Supplement, is closed on weekends and its airspace reverts to class G.

 

[TomKennelly]

To: BigAI07
Now that we have had a robust discussion about the FAA rules, Florida State rules, CPA limitations and etc will you now restore my GoFundMe link at the beginning of this thread.

I think I may have been judged incorrectly as some crazed teenager that thought he could do whatever he wanted without regard for the rules. I have demonstrated that I researched the relevant Florida laws, FAA airspace rules, CPA limited authority which is not the act of a teenage crazy. So far the robust debate has brought out many issues of which I addressed every one.

 

[DoomMeister]

I guess you did not follow my logic. CPD cannot according to 330.41 3(b) make up rules about drones with the exception 330.41 3(c). CPD is forbidden by state law from the drone rules they have enacted. CPD states in their tariff that they are a political subdivision of the state of Florida and therefore 330.41 3(b) applies directly to CPD and the state law preempts CPD rules. I wonder if you don't understate state preemption?

With regard to airspace there was much discussion about it previously where I proved that airspace restrictions do not prevent flying in CPD area from and FAA perspective. The airspace that is most relevant is KXMR which, according the the FAA Chart Supplement, is closed on weekends and its airspace reverts to class G.

Just because KXMR reverts to Class G airspace does not remove the NSUFR over its airspace. The NSUFR is a restriction on drone flight in that airspace whether it is active or not.

Reverting to Class G just makes it so GA air traffic do not have to contact the tower (because there is no tower to contact).

 

[TomKennelly]

Just because KXMR reverts to Class G airspace does not remove the NSUFR over its airspace. The NSUFR is a restriction on drone flight in that airspace whether it is active or not.

Reverting to Class G just makes it so GA air traffic do not have to contact the tower (because there is no tower to contact).

In a previous picture I posted showed Port Canaveral is not in the NSUFR airspace but is in the KXMR airspace. I only want to fly in Port Canaveral area and not north of it.

BTW tourist helicopters fly over Port Canaveral but never north of it.