Crash & burn... hopefully learn

[Bill Hayman]

Witnessed my first drone crash / near-miss as a non-participant.

We were walking out of service this morning with mom pushing walker, heard a buzz, looked up, saw Pantom 4 at about 75’ hovering. Then 5 seconds later, heard a hard rev-up, then turned to see upside down crash right behind us onto concrete pavement. It narrowly missed several elderly people. Camera separated, cover split open, landing gear gone, battery half-way out, all propellers shattered.

I picked up pieces, looked around unsuccessfully for pilot, talked to a few other people who also saw it. Then about 5-10 min later some young adults walked up glad I found their phantom (pieces).

I inquired if they were registered... why their drone wasn’t marked with registration ID, if they had a flight waiver from CAK 2.3Km away, why they were flying over people without a chute, and why flying beyond VLOS.

Mouths open, no answers :-(

Anyone in Maryland can help me learn how to fly my new small drone?

 

[RunnerGuy]

Anyone in Maryland can help me learn how to fly my new small drone?

Hi Bill- Welcome. You may find more options in the “Regional Meet-Ups & Local Flyers” sub-forum of the home page.

But first, educate yourself from the FAA’s Drone page, then register on FAA website and so forth. You will discover many NFZ’s nearer to DC...

Good Luck -

 

[shanover]

am I the weirdo here? I researched and got an FAA hobby registration number BEFORE my drone/quad was even delivered?

 

[mereflyer]

The way its going, all drones etc will need to be encased in thick wads of cotton wool, ten sheets of bubble wrap or even encased in an airbag - at least then they could be registered as a football or exempted etc.... Seriously though the last thing we need is our beloved drones being completely banned because some irresponsible fool didn't follow the rules or flew in a manner that endangered life or property... just sayin!

 

[kilomikebravo]

maybe they need to do dwi checks on the airport tarmac and test some of the airlines pilots.

Ken: You touched a nerve with me. Please do not compare airline pilots with your average automobile driver as it's undeserved. To my knowledge, there has never been an accident or injury on a commercial flight due to an intoxicated crewmember. I'm also only aware of a couple incidents where another crewmember reported smelling alcohol on a pilot's breath and the company had them tested. Yes, he had been drinking the night before but still had "eight hours bottle to throttle" which is the law according to the FAA. You might not know this but the maximum blood alcohol level during random tests is .04 which is far less than for the same test in a vehicle.

 

[kensteele]

Ken: You touched a nerve with me. Please do not compare airline pilots with your average automobile driver as it's undeserved. To my knowledge, there has never been an accident or injury on a commercial flight due to an intoxicated crewmember. I'm also only aware of a couple incidents where another crewmember reported smelling alcohol on a pilot's breath and the company had them tested. Yes, he had been drinking the night before but still had "eight hours bottle to throttle" which is the law according to the FAA. You might not know this but the maximum blood alcohol level during random tests is .04 which is far less than for the same test in a vehicle.

i agree with you. i think my point was before we go whole hog with all kinds of testing, etc for the purposes of prevention, let's deal with where the facts take us: drunk drivers. just like airlines pilots don't need it, drone pilots don't need testing and checkpoints and spot checks and all kinds of special attention to "flying while intoxicated." it's just as ludicrous to test drone pilots as it is to test pilots on the tarmac. no additional enforcement actions are needed for either; plenty is needed for automobiles. personally i've never heard of a pilot who crashed or hurt anyone from flying intoxicated and i apologize, didn't intend to come off that way.

 

[old man mavic]

i agree with you. i think my point was before we go whole hog with all kinds of testing, etc for the purposes of prevention, let's deal with where the facts take us: drunk drivers. just like airlines pilots don't need it, drone pilots don't need testing and checkpoints and spot checks and all kinds of special attention to "flying while intoxicated." it's just as ludicrous to test drone pilots as it is to test pilots on the tarmac. no additional enforcement actions are needed for either; plenty is needed for automobiles. personally i've never heard of a pilot who crashed or hurt anyone from flying intoxicated and i apologize, didn't intend to come off that way.

until UAVs became widely available to the general public, the hobby of flying unmanned small model aircraft and helicopters and to some extent multi rotors,was confined to groups of people flying in a very controlled manner at designated sites,the rules they followed are what prevented their models from coming into conflict with the public.and as we know the hobby over the years had and still has a very good safety record.then an explosion of UAVs which can be purchased and flown with no knowledge of airspace rules came onto being,and that is when the conflict started between hobby flyers and the general public,because UAVs were appearing all over the place and were being flown with no regards to safety,it is not the UAV that is dangerous its the person flying it, and what the circumstances of the flight in the wrong place could have on others in the air and on the ground.yes the rules being applied to us all now are to some extent overkill,thanks in the main to negative media reporting about UAVs,and misconceptions about what a UAV is capable of when flying and filming

 

[RunnerGuy]

Good stuff everyone! Excellent points being made on a number of related topics. I’m definitely in support of whatever makes our droning safer.

Happy flying!

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Glad no one was injured and glad you made this a learning moment. Those that are more closely involve understand the rules for flight but many casual fliers do not. I recently found out one of my coworkers flies a drone. I asked him about his fly and he mentioned taking the drone up over 1,000 feet. When I mentioned the 400' limit he looked dumbfounded. He had no idea regarding the altitude limit which is UAS flying basics. I'm thinking manufacturers should begin printing the basic restrictions right on the box (no flight over 400', no flight within 5 miles of an airport, no flight over people, drone must stay within line of sight, etc.) so the buyer knows beforehand there are flight restrictions when flying these "toys".

 

[JAW]

am I the weirdo here? I researched and got an FAA hobby registration number BEFORE my drone/quad was even delivered?

That's because as a hobby or recreational flyer, you register yourself and not your drone. But that could change so that you may have to register each drone you fly, even as a recreational or hobby pilot

 

[RunnerGuy]

Glad no one was injured and glad you made this a learning moment. Those that are more closely involve understand the rules for flight but many casual fliers do not. I recently found out one of my coworkers flies a drone. I asked him about his fly and he mentioned taking the drone up over 1,000 feet. When I mentioned the 400' limit he looked dumbfounded. He had no idea regarding the altitude limit which is UAS flying basics. I'm thinking manufacturers should begin printing the basic restrictions right on the box (no flight over 400', no flight within 5 miles of an airport, no flight over people, drone must stay within line of sight, etc.) so the buyer knows beforehand there are flight restrictions when flying these "toys".

Yikes... over 1000'? Can a DJI go that high? Mine stops under 400. I assumed it was baked into the drone-brain

 

[kensteele]

I'm thinking manufacturers should begin printing the basic restrictions right on the box (no flight over 400', no flight within 5 miles of an airport, no flight over people, drone must stay within line of sight, etc.) so the buyer knows beforehand there are flight restrictions when flying these "toys".

not going to do that. those are government rules, not dji. it's not dji responsibility to print it on the box, what happens when that information changes? what about places were the top altitude is 200'? so my drone has all these rules printed on the box but the french parrot does not....does that mean the buyer should buy the parrott because you can fly it higher? do cars come with a warning that says don't drive faster than 55mph? do mobile phones come with a warning that say don't talk to strangers?

like you said, the people who will agree to these rules already know the rules and don't need them printed out. rule-breakers will ignore so i'm not seeing the true benefit to print on the box. i'm ok with a link that says go to faa.gov for more information but you just don't do that sort of thing unless you are talking about grave injury or bodily harm like you might find with guns or poison or electrocution or motorcycles (they have big warnings in the manual and on the package or wear a helmet). consumer safety, child safety, etc. drones are not in that category. drones need warnings like battery might catch on fire or blades are sharp, etc.

 

[tmtwomey]

do cars come with a warning that says don't drive faster than 55mph?

No, but you have to get a license to drive on public roads.

While I agree with much of what Ken says, I think it would be reasonable to require drones sold in the US to include a single page, created by the FAA, explaining the basics of the NAS and your responsibilities as a drone operator. The printed rules could be general, with links taking the reader to the current detailed rules. The page could be included at the time of purchase, so that packaging wouldn't have to change. I don't believe a link alone to the FAA site would be followed by most purchasers.

You are right that they won't help the very responsible or the very irresponsible drone pilots, but they might help the new drone owner who just didn't know there were any 'rules'. I think more pilots fall into the 'didn't know the rule' category than the 'ignore the rule' category. I bet there is more safety paperwork shipped with a bicycle than a drone in the Mavic class. This would also allow each country to document their own rules and regulations.

Actually, I bet you could make this a recommendation rather than yet another rule. Most big retailers would probably include the handout if the FAA asked them to.

 

[kensteele]

No, but you have to get a license to drive on public roads.

While I agree with much of what Ken says, I think it would be reasonable to require drones sold in the US to include a single page, created by the FAA, explaining the basics of the NAS and your responsibilities as a drone operator. The printed rules could be general, with links taking the reader to the current detailed rules. The page could be included at the time of purchase, so that packaging wouldn't have to change. I don't believe a link alone to the FAA site would be followed by most purchasers.

You are right that they won't help the very responsible or the very irresponsible drone pilots, but they might help the new drone owner who just didn't know there were any 'rules'. I think more pilots fall into the 'didn't know the rule' category than the 'ignore the rule' category. I bet there is more safety paperwork shipped with a bicycle than a drone in the Mavic class. This would also allow each country to document their own rules and regulations.

Actually, I bet you could make this a recommendation rather than yet another rule. Most big retailers would probably include the handout if the FAA asked them to.

agreed. i believe the faa said (in the webinar today) that they were working with manufacturers to including more safety information in the box. in my opinion, that should have already been done but i guess it's better late then never.

i would even go so far as being ok with including a separate pamphlet called "how to study for your recreational pilot license." perhaps they are always working towards this.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

not going to do that. those are government rules, not dji. it's not dji responsibility to print it on the box, what happens when that information changes? what about places were the top altitude is 200'? so my drone has all these rules printed on the box but the french parrot does not....does that mean the buyer should buy the parrott because you can fly it higher? do cars come with a warning that says don't drive faster than 55mph? do mobile phones come with a warning that say don't talk to strangers?

like you said, the people who will agree to these rules already know the rules and don't need them printed out. rule-breakers will ignore so i'm not seeing the true benefit to print on the box. i'm ok with a link that says go to faa.gov for more information but you just don't do that sort of thing unless you are talking about grave injury or bodily harm like you might find with guns or poison or electrocution or motorcycles (they have big warnings in the manual and on the package or wear a helmet). consumer safety, child safety, etc. drones are not in that category. drones need warnings like battery might catch on fire or blades are sharp, etc.

Companies are capable of print point of sale (country) specific instructions on a box, keep them up to date and make changes when necessary. You can add a statement that the rules posted aren't exaustive And are subject to change. The comment about government not DJI regulations totally ignores the fact DJI restricts flight in certain areas all over the world. You can't agree to something you don't know exist. You can't claim ignorance if the very basic rules are printed on the box.

 

[kensteele]

Companies are capable of print point of sale (country) specific instructions on a box, keep them up to date and make changes when necessary. You can add a statement that the rules posted aren't exaustive And are subject to change. The comment about government not DJI regulations totally ignores the fact DJI restricts flight in certain areas all over the world. You can't agree to something you don't know exist. You can't claim ignorance if the very basic rules are printed on the box.

absolutely i have that capability. but i won't do it unless it is mandatory which means not unless california requires it.

the box is for advertising and selling the product; it isn't a space for government rules. my box is competitive which means if the parrott doesn't have it, why would mine? so everyone will think the dji is a government drone and the parrott isn't so buy the parrott and the rules don't apply to you because it wasn't on the box (as opposed to the dji where it's all over the box)?

if i put something on the box and i order up 200,000 printed that will sit on shelves or in a warehouse for the next 2 years, it better be fresh and accurate info. i'm not in the mood to put stickers on boxes to cover up old outdated stale verbiage (retailer won't apply those sticker anyway, they'll just throw them away) and i'm not ready to deal with retailers who won't risk it and send inventory back to me to be re-worked. again, unless it's the law, why would i do it? there just isn't enough space on the box to make the point, i mean look at the dji box, it's clean and minimalistic.

again, i'll put stuff inside the box if i have to. because to me it has less impact and i can better resolve, in case i am ordered to fix something. if i put on the box fly no higher than 400 and the faa changes that to 300, how do i know they won't send me a letter "asking" me to fix it. and they not even that smart, they'll just send a letter to the retailer to pull it and i'm stuck as a manufacturer even though it was a bad call. i have options if it's in the user guide or a slip of paper in the box (which i don't like either but i'll do it) or better yet, a fresh link. remember i'm in the business to make money, not to educate, not pass along rules or ideas from others. i think the software is going a bit too far but i don't know the [legal] details behind that because you're actually flying. my understanding is the box mostly goes in the trash so don't waste your time with it. long gone are the days when the box was on the shelf and people could pick up the box and read all about it for their purchase decision.

my country specific details are mostly limited to warnings, contents, ingredients, upc, fcc ids, and barcodes and sustainability type stuff; other language. cert logos and partner logos/details.

i absolutely believe anyone can claim ignorance regardless if they checked a box or read something on the screen or in writing. those things are in place to protect me, not to stick it to you (the customer).

 

[Deleted member 93449]

absolutely i have that capability. but i won't do it unless it is mandatory which means not unless california requires it.

the box is for advertising and selling the product; it isn't a space for government rules. my box is competitive which means if the parrott doesn't have it, why would mine? so everyone will think the dji is a government drone and the parrott isn't so buy the parrott and the rules don't apply to you because it wasn't on the box (as opposed to the dji where it's all over the box)?

if i put something on the box and i order up 200,000 printed that will sit on shelves or in a warehouse for the next 2 years, it better be fresh and accurate info. i'm not in the mood to put stickers on boxes to cover up old outdated stale verbiage (retailer won't apply those sticker anyway, they'll just throw them away) and i'm not ready to deal with retailers who won't risk it and send inventory back to me to be re-worked. again, unless it's the law, why would i do it? there just isn't enough space on the box to make the point, i mean look at the dji box, it's clean and minimalistic.

again, i'll put stuff inside the box if i have to. because to me it has less impact and i can better resolve, in case i am ordered to fix something. if i put on the box fly no higher than 400 and the faa changes that to 300, how do i know they won't send me a letter "asking" me to fix it. and they not even that smart, they'll just send a letter to the retailer to pull it and i'm stuck as a manufacturer even though it was a bad call. i have options if it's in the user guide or a slip of paper in the box (which i don't like either but i'll do it) or better yet, a fresh link. remember i'm in the business to make money, not to educate, not pass along rules or ideas from others. i think the software is going a bit too far but i don't know the [legal] details behind that because you're actually flying. my understanding is the box mostly goes in the trash so don't waste your time with it. long gone are the days when the box was on the shelf and people could pick up the box and read all about it for their purchase decision.

my country specific details are mostly limited to warnings, contents, ingredients, upc, fcc ids, and barcodes and sustainability type stuff; other language. cert logos and partner logos/details.

i absolutely believe anyone can claim ignorance regardless if they checked a box or read something on the screen or in writing. those things are in place to protect me, not to stick it to you (the customer).

Just about EVERY product sold in the U.S. has something printed on the label by government mandate. Given these products were sold as toys for children it is not surprising many people are not aware of the basic rules that have been put in place by the government for how these "toys" are flown. If we are going to hold people responsible for violating this rules there is some responsibility on the part of government and manufacturers to educate consumers on those rules.

 

[kensteele]

Just about EVERY product sold in the U.S. has something printed on the label by government mandate.

like i said, i'll do it if it's the state or federal law/regulation/requirement*. otherwise i won't.

*meaning requirement to print on the consumer packaging.

 

[JSKCKNIT]

Anyone in Maryland can help me learn how to fly my new small drone?

What part of MD?

 

[RobH2]

Anyone in Maryland can help me learn how to fly my new small drone?

Hi, I'm in Baltimore and can help you. I have found a 33-acre field I use that is a perfect place to train. I use it with permission so it's all cool. I'd be willing to meet you and help you. --Rob