Dispelling some myths for clarity

[Michael Ainsworth]

 

[collins]

There should not be blurred spots like what we are getting regardless of shooting conditions or camera settings. I have never seen NR behaving this bad on any other camera. Have you?

I have. My Galaxy S7 Edge acts in exactly the same manner - adding gobs of NR to the video at default. You can buy apps that let you adjust contrast, saturation and sharpness separately but the noise reduction is baked into the sharpness setting. The fact is that the Mavic Pro essentially uses a smartphone sensor and I would have thought it is highly likely that DJI, rather than building their own image processor, simply brought in one from a third party. Given the video bit rate and raw file sizes are the same as my S7, I wouldnt be surprised if they even use the same processor. In fact, the Mavic Pro offers a lot of customisation for a smartphone sensor and produces better video than I can get out of my S7.

 

[Robbyg]

This thing is built to a price point and comparing it to a $1500 DSLR is a waste of time. It takes pretty good video if you work within the dynamic range limitations. The pictures are cellphone quality and will be fine for non professional work.


Rob

 

[possenorge]

If they wanted to hide the NR settings for simplicity, at least make sure the forced NR filter works as intended. Right now it is doing more harm then good. What we have now is not normal NR filter behavior. It's either very badly implemented or they have it cranked up to 11 as standard.

What you're looking at is marketing strategy. This is how the manufactorers are dividing their products into separate levels, by adding pro features to the high end and narrowing the tube on the other. Remember how OP ordered a Mavic, discovered some limitations, and went on buying a more expensive drone? Judging by the market today and how DJI pretty much dominates it, it is not unfair to guess that he went on to buy a P4. This is not bad design or bad engineering. This is DJIs marketing strategy working just the way they wanted. Accepting and understanding this mechanism is not being a fanboy.

Then why are you confusing optical sharpness with a sharpness filter? The Mavic sharpness filter does the exact same function as a sharpness filter in your video editor. The only difference is that the Mavic filter has access to raw image data. But on the other side your video editor usaly has a better quality sharpening filter, since it is not restricted by the resources available in the camera real-time processing chip.

I'm not confused. As a rule of thumb I don't want to use camera processing power to perform NR or much image processing at all - with any of the cameras I use. But when the Mavic is as it is, I'd rather have the NR being applied at the point in the chain where there is the most image data available. And yes, I do know that an image with more detail will be tougher to compress. The difference here is that I only have to fit 2.7K of resolution to the available bandwidth, not your 4K with deliberately bad settings.

+1 will also make inter frame flickering more pronounced in Mavic footage. And again, you cannot remove sharpness in edit, only add it. So it is always best to record without if you plan on doing post processing anyways. For direct to YouTube type of recording, I agree that +1 works fine for the most part.

I have no idea where you get this from. You can absolutely turn sharpness down in post in a number of ways to achieve a better result. For DJI footage and how to prepare it for broadcast use I've made a post about it here. As of flickering I've never had problems with that with the Mavic unless the sun hits the propeller. And if I can't see it on my monitors, I don't worry about it.

I am just writing in the tone used by others in this thread when they attacked the thread starter.

You're writing in the tone of the loud mouthed guy in the pub that is always right, shaking your head in disbelief that you "have to explain this" to us. When you're in fact just a few steps behind.

 

[Strafe1]

@possenorge.....great post! It would be easier if the newbies to the Mavic or this forum would read the numerous threads and over one thousand posts regarding this subject.

 

[jdubmiles]

I've de-logged and heavily graded some 8bit Log images without issues and de-logged and pushed 12bit log images with lots of issues.

Colour grading takes lots of skill. There's more than the codec to the final grade-ability of the image, starting from the lens, the image sensor performance (noise performance, cleanliness, fpn, DR, colour dye, resolution), the processor tricks, NR, colour science, WB, exposure, gain, gamma curve, happening before compression and all directly affect how much the image can be pushed and de-logged with or without issues, not just 8bit vs 10bit.

8 bit certainly is an enormous and twisted axis colour space but it can be corrected with skill and for most of us that means using an appropriate LUT to color correct the Log file.

 

[whitedesigns]

This thread is proof that almost anything can be taken waaaaay too seriously.
I've enjoyed my Mavic so far - anyone who has seen the videos I've taken has been amazed - and I know little to nothing, just shoot with the standard settings, edit in iMovie and go. Granted, I don't know too many professional filmmakers. I suspect - without proof mind you - that great results with the Mavic might be more a product of the user than the hardware. I'd rather see Ansel Adams' shots with an iPhone than the random dude with the $10K SLR......

 

[cptlores]

Most of you are just patting your self on the shoulder, without saying anything even remotely relevant to the topic or of any technical worth.

I am still waiting for a reasonable explanation why the Mavic NR filter is behaving the way it is. Limiting bandwidth and resolution/fps options for marketing purposes I can understand. Blurred spots in the image I cannot, when the fix is trivial (and no, +1 is not the fix I am referring to).

 

[Robbyg]

Most of you are just patting your self on the shoulder, without saying anything even remotely relevant to the topic or of any technical worth.

I am still waiting for a reasonable explanation why the Mavic NR filter is behaving the way it is. Limiting bandwidth and resolution/fps options for marketing purposes I can understand. Blurred spots in the image I cannot, when the fix is trivial (and no, +1 is not the fix I am referring to).

Your wasting your time.
The Pro Photographers groups already came on the forum during the first few months beating this topic to death. Detailed analysis was done and videos made. Do some searching and you will find the threads. Suffice to say the Mavic is not the drone for you if your going to be comparing the quality with a G4 or G5 LOL. It's mid end cell phone quality and that's what you get at this price range.

Rob

 

[UAVMan]

Your wasting your time.
The Pro Photographers groups already came on the forum during the first few months beating this topic to death. Detailed analysis was done and videos made. Do some searching and you will find the threads. Suffice to say the Mavic is not the drone for you if your going to be comparing the quality with a G4 or G5 LOL. It's mid end cell phone quality and that's what you get at this price range.

Rob

Have to agree, the sensor on this bird isn't the best even on cell phone standard. If you want a pro platform try inspire 2.

 

[cptlores]

But the thing is, we are not talking about sensor quality here. Just basic understanding of how to process raw sensor data in a proper way.

 

[Robbyg]

But the thing is, we are not talking about sensor quality here. Just basic understanding of how to process raw sensor data in a proper way.

Yes I get that but in order to do really good compression etc. you need better image processors. All of the ingredients to make the kind of pictures you want would probably add another $400 onto the mavics selling price. It's very clear that DJI wanted a sub $1000 drone that most people could afford.

BTW I am into photography so I feel your pain. I rarely take photos with it because it's just not that good. The video on the other hand can look good enough to impress most people if you use the right settings and keep the subject area within the dynamic range limits.

Rob

 

[Zentex]

I agree, friend. Way too much chest-bumping going on here. I've enjoyed reading about everyone's opinions on their Mavic footage. I tend to give more credence to the ones who actually OWN one, though

 

[Michael Ainsworth]

Complete Raw shot, was just messing around. No post production yet.
Good enough for me although I know I can better shots.

 

[Kestrel]

Have to agree, the sensor on this bird isn't the best even on cell phone standard. If you want a pro platform try inspire 2.

Depends on what Cellphone you have, my cellphone doesn't take nearly as good video.

 

[cptlores]

Yes I get that but in order to do really good compression etc. you need better image processors. All of the ingredients to make the kind of pictures you want would probably add another $400 onto the mavics selling price. It's very clear that DJI wanted a sub $1000 drone that most people could afford.

No, and this is why I get so frustrated. All they need to do is to turn the NR filter strength down a bit, so that we get the same effect as +1 minus the over sharpening.

 

[Shawn3D]

Here's a sorry footage suit inn d-log, amazing if you ask me.

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Yeah this is an awesome video with amazing workflow. Very polished professional film [emoji108][emoji41]

 

[cptlores]

Youtube quote straight from the creator of that video.

The luts work exactly the same if you are on +1 sharpness or 0 sharpness. My suggestion is to use +1 if you are familiar with noise reduction. If you have neat video then there is a noise profile on the SpectrumGrades site which can help you. If you want to have a faster workflow then use 0 sharpness, however you know the issue with that is blurry greens and darks. Thats really a subjective requirement but if you want the optimal quality and happy with a slower workflow then use neat video with +1 sharpness.

So like everybody else he is using +1 to avoid the blur spots, and then has to use Neat Video noise reduction and a custom noise profile for the Mavic to salvage the video.

 

[Shawn3D]

Youtube quote straight from the creator of that video.


So like everybody else he is using +1 to avoid the blur spots, and then has to use Neat Video noise reduction and a custom noise profile for the Mavic to salvage the video.

Yeah the denoise cleans up he footage and also the grading with the SpectrumGrades presets helps a lot with getting the cinematic look [emoji108]

 

[Robbyg]

No, and this is why I get so frustrated. All they need to do is to turn the NR filter strength down a bit, so that we get the same effect as +1 minus the over sharpening.

I do Pro photography as a hobby. I have had the Mavic Since early January. I have tried every setting! I have used +1 and 0 and -1, I have ran through the whole gambit of settings.

It's simple, the camera does not take great Photos! The video is usable and ok but the photos are lackluster and lack Dynamic Range, well they lack just about everything that makes a good DSLR picture pop.

Sorry but I have taken photos with My Nikon D500 next to the Mavic and beside that an iPhone 6 Plus. Even the iPhone 6 Plus blew the Mavic out of the water taking photos. Compared to the D500 the Mavs pictures looked like ****(Pre Edited).

Rob