Diving into the FAA certification process

lookout · May 13, 2023

Got to love the whole study for a test and find a testing provider pay them $150 for each test and voila you're certified in whatever it is.

fivesense · May 13, 2023

Can anyone explain why the FAA should be able to charge for the Part 107 exam? They mandated the certification. Why should they be able to demand money from citizens to get the certification?

The FAA is part of the taxpayer funded government. It determined drones should be regulated. It determined citizens that fund the FAA should have to pay for a certification that the FAA deemed necessary, so that citizens could make money to operate drones, money that the federal government could tax. F the FAA.

lookout · May 14, 2023

fivesense said:
Can anyone explain why the FAA should be able to charge for the Part 107 exam? They mandated the certification. Why should they be able to demand money from citizens to get the certification?

The story goes on any of this that the faa doesn't get any of the exam money, it all goes to the cost of opening the doors at the testing center.

If you take a ham test, the hams volunteer to administer the test.

fivesense · May 14, 2023

lookout said:
The story goes on any of this that the faa doesn't get any of the exam money, it all goes to the cost of opening the doors at the testing center.

If you take a ham test, the hams volunteer to administer the test.

Now the FCC charges for the ham radio exams, and none of that money goes to the ham radio volunteer examiners.

Big Bro · May 14, 2023

lookout said:
If you take a ham test, the hams volunteer to administer the test.

Yeah, but the FCC just charged me $35 to renew my license. In the past it's always been free.

Shaunmcfd · May 14, 2023

As others have said, if you are doing work for your own company you should have already been 107 certified as that is not recreational use. With that being said, I used pilot institute. They teach you more than just how to pass the test.

fivesense · May 15, 2023

fivesense said:
Can anyone explain why the FAA should be able to charge for the Part 107 exam? They mandated the certification. Why should they be able to demand money from citizens to get the certification?

The FAA is part of the taxpayer funded government. It determined drones should be regulated. It determined citizens that fund the FAA should have to pay for a certification that the FAA deemed necessary, so that citizens could make money to operate drones, money that the federal government could tax. F the FAA.

I’m looking into this with the FAA but if anyone has a perspective I’d be grateful to read it.

SethB · May 15, 2023

fivesense said:
Can anyone explain why the FAA should be able to charge for the Part 107 exam? They mandated the certification. Why should they be able to demand money from citizens to get the certification?

The FAA is part of the taxpayer funded government. It determined drones should be regulated. It determined citizens that fund the FAA should have to pay for a certification that the FAA deemed necessary, so that citizens could make money to operate drones, money that the federal government could tax. F the FAA.

fivesense said:
I’m looking into this with the FAA but if anyone has a perspective I’d be grateful to read it.

It's the congress and the president who mandate certification, write, negotiate, and approve legislation, and appropriate funding to the FAA.

As previously stated in this thread by @lookout, there is a contractor who puts up the infrastructure for in-person testing around the country. This mirrors conventional aviation exams and certification.

My personal opinion is that tax cuts from the 1980s onward have led to lower service levels by agencies and higher user fees. Other opinions differ, I'm sure. I only share this hot topic here because I think it's the root cause of the fee structure one finds when taking the initial Part 107 RPIC exam for certification.

Art Cox · May 15, 2023

fivesense said:
I do a lot of drone work for my own company but may branch out to doing other commercial work. As such, I'm considering getting my FAA certification. I've got my FTN and have begun the process of studying with the Part 107 Small UAS Initial (ALC-451) online training course. What suggestions for books, self and guided study do you recommend?

This has likely been discussed quite a bit but I couldn't find the link. I'd be grateful for any guidance and recommendations.

Tony Northrop YouTube course is what I used. it's a great help. Do the FAA Test questions on their site.
Be careful doing drone work without your Part 107, it may fall under "The Furtherance of a Business" heading. I learned that one the hard way. No fine, but a strong warning and advised to get my Part 107. "Careful what you post on YouTube, FAA is bored and looking"

fivesense · May 16, 2023

SethB said:
It's the congress and the president who mandate certification, write, negotiate, and approve legislation, and appropriate funding to the FAA.

As previously stated in this thread by @lookout, there is a contractor who puts up the infrastructure for in-person testing around the country. This mirrors conventional aviation exams and certification.

My personal opinion is that tax cuts from the 1980s onward have led to lower service levels by agencies and higher user fees. Other opinions differ, I'm sure. I only share this hot topic here because I think it's the root cause of the fee structure one finds when taking the initial Part 107 RPIC exam for certification.

It's SUPPOSED to be the Legislative branch that makes laws. True, the Legislative branch approves funding to agencies like the FAA (not a function of the Executive branch).

But a fee for test taking is not a law and it was not approved or asked for by Congress. Congress can divvy out funding; it did not tell the FAA to charge taxpayers for testing. So the FAA made the decision to mandate the certification and charge for it. So again, a federal agency, made up of our fellow citizens, decided to mandate a certification "rule," charge for the certification process, in order to regulate the possibility that taxpaying citizens might make taxable income with drones. It's double dipping at government's finest. And it's absolute ********.

If the FAA deemed it necessary to bring on contractors to administer the test, then it should have come out of the FAA budget to pay the contractors.

Sure, mandate certification for safety reasons, if the data warrants such a process. But it's unlawful for an unelected federal bureaucracy to charge taxpaying citizens for a test the bureaucracy mandated. The only reason it happens at all is because people don't understand the function or role of government. People quote the "rules" all the time; but it's because they accept what is outside the purview or authority of government agencies.

13_Dragons · May 16, 2023

To the OP this is the Book you need for the Part 107 test. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TGYWPTV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is the book the will hand you to take test with. This is the book minus the note sections. It has the Charts that the test will refer you to.
Study the Charts and learn how to read them. Study up on weather. and how to read METAR's Etc..

fivesense · May 16, 2023

13_Dragons said:
To the OP this is the Book you need for the Part 107 test. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TGYWPTV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is the book the will hand you to take test with. This is the book minus the note sections. It has the Charts that the test will refer you to.
Study the Charts and learn how to read them. Study up on weather. and how to read METAR's Etc..

Thank you.

What do you mean by, "This is the book minus the notes section?"

rwilliam99 · May 16, 2023

13_Dragons said:
To the OP this is the Book you need for the Part 107 test. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TGYWPTV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is the book the will hand you to take test with. This is the book minus the note sections. It has the Charts that the test will refer you to.
Study the Charts and learn how to read them. Study up on weather. and how to read METAR's Etc..

FYI, you can download a free electronic copy from the FAA website:

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/supplements/media/sport_rec_private_akts.pdf

anotherlab · May 16, 2023

fivesense said:
It's SUPPOSED to be the Legislative branch that makes laws. True, the Legislative branch approves funding to agencies like the FAA (not a function of the Executive branch).

But a fee for test taking is not a law and it was not approved or asked for by Congress. Congress can divvy out funding; it did not tell the FAA to charge taxpayers for testing. So the FAA made the decision to mandate the certification and charge for it. So again, a federal agency, made up of our fellow citizens, decided to mandate a certification "rule," charge for the certification process, in order to regulate the possibility that taxpaying citizens might make taxable income with drones. It's double dipping at government's finest. And it's absolute ********.

If the FAA deemed it necessary to bring on contractors to administer the test, then it should have come out of the FAA budget to pay the contractors.

Sure, mandate certification for safety reasons, if the data warrants such a process. But it's unlawful for an unelected federal bureaucracy to charge taxpaying citizens for a test the bureaucracy mandated. The only reason it happens at all is because people don't understand the function or role of government. People quote the "rules" all the time; but it's because they accept what is outside the purview or authority of government agencies.

It is actually lawful and by design. Congress gives agencies the power to establish a charge for a service or thing of value provided by that agency. That is described in 31 U.S. Code § 9701

§ 9701 said:
(a) It is the sense of Congress that each service or thing of value provided by an agency (except a mixed-ownership Government corporation) to a person (except a person on official business of the United States Government) is to be self-sustaining to the extent possible.

(b) The head of each agency (except a mixed-ownership Government corporation) may prescribe regulations establishing the charge for a service or thing of value provided by the agency. Regulations prescribed by the heads of executive agencies are subject to policies prescribed by the President and shall be as uniform as practicable. Each charge shall be—

(1) fair; and
(2)based on—

(A) the costs to the Government;
(B) the value of the service or thing to the recipient;
(C) public policy or interest served; and
(D) other relevant facts.

(c) This section does not affect a law of the United States—

(1) prohibiting the determination and collection of charges and the disposition of those charges; and
(2) prescribing bases for determining charges, but a charge may be redetermined under this section consistent with the prescribed bases.

Source

Droning on and on... · May 16, 2023

fivesense said:
Can anyone explain why the FAA should be able to charge for the Part 107 exam? They mandated the certification. Why should they be able to demand money from citizens to get the certification?

The FAA is part of the taxpayer funded government. It determined drones should be regulated. It determined citizens that fund the FAA should have to pay for a certification that the FAA deemed necessary, so that citizens could make money to operate drones, money that the federal government could tax. F the FAA.

Was your Driver's License free, or did you have to pay a fee?

Droning on and on... · May 16, 2023

Shaunmcfd said:
As others have said, if you are doing work for your own company you should have already been 107 certified as that is not recreational use. With that being said, I used pilot institute. They teach you more than just how to pass the test.

Like what, how to tune a carburetor on a a '65 Mustang?

Droning on and on... · May 16, 2023

fivesense said:
It's SUPPOSED to be the Legislative branch that makes laws. True, the Legislative branch approves funding to agencies like the FAA (not a function of the Executive branch).

You forget that the President, solely among the Executive Branch, has a Constitutional legislative role.

fivesense said:
But a fee for test taking is not a law and it was not approved or asked for by Congress. Congress can divvy out funding; it did not tell the FAA to charge taxpayers for testing. So the FAA made the decision to mandate the certification and charge for it. So again, a federal agency, made up of our fellow citizens, decided to mandate a certification "rule," charge for the certification process, in order to regulate the possibility that taxpaying citizens might make taxable income with drones. It's double dipping at government's finest. And it's absolute ********.

And the FAA has the authority to make those decisions.

Congress, with rare exception, doesn't get that far into the weeds to specify costs and fees to the public, but gives that authority to Executive Agencies.

You won't find that authority in any FAA or aviation specific legislation. It's in the US Code long ago, generically, granting that power to ALL executive agencies to levy fees where justified and necessary.

"Justified and necessary" is, of course, a matter of opinion. The harsh truth is yours doesn't matter much; that of some apparatchik in an 8x8' cubicle in the basement of a government building does... a lot